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Coffee Lake Clockspeeds Leaked

magnumkobra
11 hours ago, pas008 said:

board partners you talking about the companies that have been copy and pasting their designs for few years

anyways I have read that too myself and they werent expecting quads but still if speculation was saying q4 i'd buy all of it

I dont take fud and wccf seriously but oc3n link sells me

We have two sets of internal Intel slides for X299. One said up to 10c in early 2016. The late 2016/early 2017 slide had up to 12c. (This was the point they knew Ryzen's final specs.) The "up to 18c" only came out in about March/April. Threadripper was this rumored thing, but it's actually been on AMD's roadmap for a while. It was just never a consumer-level product. (It was called "Snowy Owl" and still exists if you need semi-custom products.)

 

So the i9-7980XE is, in fact, a "response". "Panic mode" might be the better phrase, as they've had to repurpose actual Xeons at higher clocks & a much lower price.

 

Coffee Lake (Kaby Lake Refresh) was announced in 2016 and has been 6 cores the entire time. The clocks also make sense, as Skylake's performance increase is almost wholly down to the ability to push a bunch more power through the core. That's why the single-core performance is so good, but a 6c part at 7700k speeds is going to be messy.  That's a lot of heat. (AIOs will be fine; it doesn't need a custom-loop like Skylake-X.)

 

Still, if Intel brings the Mesh to Desktop designs in Icelake & beyond, the 8700k will probably be the best DX11 CPU for a couple of years.  Though nothing that Intel seems like it'll be providing changes the market much. Ryzen 5 1600 should still be the best Mid-range CPU; G4560 replacement the best low-end (Raven Ridge isn't until Q4 so we don't know if that changes); high end is the x700k SKU because you can OC the hell out of it.

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5 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

We have two sets of internal Intel slides for X299. One said up to 10c in early 2016. The late 2016/early 2017 slide had up to 12c. (This was the point they knew Ryzen's final specs.) The "up to 18c" only came out in about March/April. Threadripper was this rumored thing, but it's actually been on AMD's roadmap for a while. It was just never a consumer-level product. (It was called "Snowy Owl" and still exists if you need semi-custom products.)

 

So the i9-7980XE is, in fact, a "response". "Panic mode" might be the better phrase, as they've had to repurpose actual Xeons at higher clocks & a much lower price.

 

Coffee Lake (Kaby Lake Refresh) was announced in 2016 and has been 6 cores the entire time. The clocks also make sense, as Skylake's performance increase is almost wholly down to the ability to push a bunch more power through the core. That's why the single-core performance is so good, but a 6c part at 7700k speeds is going to be messy.  That's a lot of heat. (AIOs will be fine; it doesn't need a custom-loop like Skylake-X.)

 

Still, if Intel brings the Mesh to Desktop designs in Icelake & beyond, the 8700k will probably be the best DX11 CPU for a couple of years.  Though nothing that Intel seems like it'll be providing changes the market much. Ryzen 5 1600 should still be the best Mid-range CPU; G4560 replacement the best low-end (Raven Ridge isn't until Q4 so we don't know if that changes); high end is the x700k SKU because you can OC the hell out of it.

you haters can call it a panic mode (realize its competition and be happy for once)

but that is saying a multi billion dollar company does have a plan A, if this plan B, if that plan C?

and why did they even go to the knight's mesh design that is used in mass core systems if they didnt have some type of plan?

 

6c 7700k is going to messy why?

hasnt intel been making 6 core cpus for almost a decade?

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14 minutes ago, pas008 said:

you haters can call it a panic mode

but that is saying a multi billion dollar company does have a plan A, if this plan B, if that plan C?

 

6c 7700k is going to messy why?

hasnt intel been making 6 core cpus for almost a decade?

"Panic mode" is the proper understanding. You don't bin & sack CPUs you'd normally sell for over $6000 USD for under $2000 USD for no reason. And that reason is the Marketing department. Without an 18c part, Intel was going to basically lose an entire platform to AMD for the next 18 months or more. (Whenever the Coffee Lake-X or Icelake-X was ready.) 

 

As for "but a 6c part at 7700k speeds is going to be messy", do you know how much heat a Skylake core puts out when it's around 5 Ghz? Increase that by 50% going from 4c to 6c and I hope everyone else can get the point that seems lost on you.

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2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

"Panic mode" is the proper understanding. You don't bin & sack CPUs you'd normally sell for over $6000 USD for under $2000 USD for no reason. And that reason is the Marketing department. Without an 18c part, Intel was going to basically lose an entire platform to AMD for the next 18 months or more. (Whenever the Coffee Lake-X or Icelake-X was ready.) 

 

As for "but a 6c part at 7700k speeds is going to be messy", do you know how much heat a Skylake core puts out when it's around 5 Ghz? Increase that by 50% going from 4c to 6c and I hope everyone else can get the point that seems lost on you.

read my edit

why did they incorporate the mesh design that is used on their mass core cpus on x299?

 

and just because they are adding 2 more cores doesnt mean they cant tweak to lower temps, how many years have 6 cores been around?

arent they also going to be on 14nm++? lol I first put mm

which means more tweaking?

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@pas008

 

Because Skylake-X is basically from their semi-custom Server Line. Intel has 3 server CPU designs and they were only using the smaller one for HEDT. 12c through 18c is on their middle design, but are actually those CPUs. They're not spinning up new wafers. They're Skylake-SP CPUs on a different package.

 

18ish months is about how long out the full "cycle" for CPUs is. The design work is 3-4 years in total, but the lock-in periods are pretty long. AMD has never been in the HEDT department, then they actually managed to "hide" that a platform was coming. (Technically, it was done on the really cheap, as they're reusing the package from the Server CPUs with just different pin outs.)

 

The main thing in the CPU space is that Intel has a really good core. The issues is that to get that, it uses a lot of power. That doesn't scale to keeping clocks similar over a lot of cores. AMD has a core that's technically more powerful in most areas, but it doesn't push as much power. This is why it has a ~7% IPC deficit in all but AVX2 & beyond calculations.  The Zen uArch makes a lot more sense as it scales up in core counts. It's going to be limited to 8 packages (that's why 2U is max for Epyc), but how many cores they can stuff into a CCX is the only real question.

 

As for why Intel has gone with the Mesh, it's a pretty solid solution to the "more & more cores!" that CPU tech has to go to. It has really good latency to however many cores you want to toss at it. However, that latency is down from the single Ring Bus. It's a trade off, which is why we see regression in a lot of gaming scenarios, but improvements in a lot of compute tasks. It really just means both AMD & Intel are on victim cache for the L3 now.

 

Considering that the Low-Powered devices from Intel are somewhat different designs, I imagine what we'll see is that the  Low-Power/Mobile designs are also the "normal" Desktop designs. We might see the K SKUs go away in a generation or two, as Intel wants all of their top SKUs on HEDT. That seemed like the plan (thus why the 7740X exists), but AMD threw a funky wrench in the mix.

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3 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

 

It's going to be limited to 8 packages (that's why 2U is max for Epyc), but how many cores they can stuff into a CCX is the only real question.

 

I am 90% sure it will be 6c per CCX when zen2 hits due to the roadmap stating that the zen2 server CPU will have 48 cores and has been stated in a few Epyc videos that the SP3 socket will support future CPU revisions.

 

I am confident in seeing 12c Mainstream, 24c HEDT, 48c Server when zen2 hits.

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2 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

 

I am 90% sure it will be 6c per CCX when zen2 hits due to the roadmap stating that the zen2 server CPU will have 48 cores and has been stated in a few Epyc videos that the SP3 socket will support future CPU revisions.

 

I am confident in seeing 12c Mainstream, 24c HEDT, 48c Server when zen2 hits.

Same. The latency inside the CCX is so low that they can find interesting ways to route the intra-CCX calls, increasing the amount of cores, even using a Mesh-like or Ring Bus style inside the CCX to just expand it. I really don't know the actual limits to the interior calls like that. Though I think 8 might end up being max. (But 16c desktop, 32c HEDT and 64c/128c Servers are nothing to scoff at.)

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20 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

It really doesn't.  CFL being 6 cores has been planned for well over a year.  And design work was probably 2+ years ago.

And selling 2066 CPUs much cheaper than 2011-3 counterparts was planned decades ago.

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Man I wish the 8400 had a higher clock speed. Or that the 8600k had a lower TDP. Looks like Intel could very well be my next processor, unless AMD really steps up their ITX motherboard game.

 

On 2017-08-01 at 0:38 PM, Coaxialgamer said:

It could only be available to specific chipsets though ( z270 only for example). Looking at when broadwell DT launched, it was only compatible with z97 boards, despite it using the same lga 1150 socket as z87, h81, b85 etc. 

I really doubt that. I think it's more reasonable for it to be 1151V2, than that.

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i5-3570k -> i5-8600K seems quite tempting...

 

ill think about it...

 

but in games it wont make much difference still... gosh i can keep this CPU FOREVER it seems haha

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So, forgive my noobiness on this,.. but is this "moar cores!" war really good for us in most cases?

I mean i only have a quad core right now, but 2 of those cores usually idle a lot. Barly any games use them and i just don't do much with my home PC that needs the cores.

 

But whatever i do, the higher clock speeds do benefit me.

All these new high core count chips have less clock speed then my i7-4790k.

 

So what exactly is it that will make me buy the new chips? Hope for better multicore support? (not too unreasonable considering the new trend, but still)

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15 minutes ago, Rattenmann said:

So, forgive my noobiness on this,.. but is this "moar cores!" war really good for us in most cases?

I mean i only have a quad core right now, but 2 of those cores usually idle a lot. Barly any games use them and i just don't do much with my home PC that needs the cores.

 

But whatever i do, the higher clock speeds do benefit me.

All these new high core count chips have less clock speed then my i7-4790k.

 

So what exactly is it that will make me buy the new chips? Hope for better multicore support? (not too unreasonable considering the new trend, but still)

 

There are *some* games that are starting to get > 4 core hungry, but not many and not by very much.  Right now a 7700K is still a better buy than Ryzen, because fewer fast cores is a better buy than more slow cores with most workloads.  Ryzen's only 2 use cases are a) budget and b) rendering on a budget, because it scales well across cores.   TR exists in a weird space of people who want to spend $1000 on a CPU but don't want to buy Intel.  We'll find out how big that market is. The 7980XE is going to exist in a money dick space.  People will buy it up just to be on benchmark leaderboards.  Probably well funded prosumers are going to use it too.

 

CFL is pretty enticing because it's going to eliminate the "more core" itch and have high clocks.  It's not going to be a compromise like 7700K or Ryzen is.

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4 hours ago, Rattenmann said:

So, forgive my noobiness on this,.. but is this "moar cores!" war really good for us in most cases?

I mean i only have a quad core right now, but 2 of those cores usually idle a lot. Barly any games use them and i just don't do much with my home PC that needs the cores.

 

But whatever i do, the higher clock speeds do benefit me.

All these new high core count chips have less clock speed then my i7-4790k.

 

So what exactly is it that will make me buy the new chips? Hope for better multicore support? (not too unreasonable considering the new trend, but still)

In general, there is a saturation-level for Cores/Threads for every day tasks. It's not as big of a shift from 1c to 2c, but somewhere in the 6c to 8c range is going to be consumer-level saturation. So this is a good move for consumers.

 

The main reason to upgrade is the Core to Core communication & memory sub-system improvements. In gaming? No reason, really, as that CPU can all but saturate everything that isn't an Titan Xp OC'd. If it's for gaming, you don't need to upgrade for another 2-3 years, likely. However, the multi-core workloads have rapidly improved, which is the big upgrade. That's why the whole "Ryzen is so smooth" talking point exists, as it is. Those cores limit a lot of the previous hang ups, along with the much faster memory systems.

2 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

Holy crap the i7-8700 looks amazing if it's $300 and can run full speed on say an $80 board.

$80 USD boards aren't out for at least another 7-10 months. The z370 is the high-end boards; 300 series non-OC boards aren't until either late Q1 or early Q2 2018. They got pushed back.

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