Wolfenstein II to use Rapid Packed Math

[DarkBlade2117]

Just now, cj09beira said:

? source ? 

(curious )

I didn't personally watch anything, just parts of it but they did mention some stuff about Far Cry 5 throughout the presentation

[Valentyn]

9 hours ago, Humbug said:

Since Vulkan API itself supports mixed precision can they implement this in a way that works on Nvidia too?

 

Only if NVIDIA's consumer cards supported FP16. Even the Titan Xp only have FP16 support at 1/64 of FP32.

So no double rate FP16 for NVIDIA gaming cards.

 

Vega 64 will have +25TFLOPS with Rapid Packed Math; aka Double rate FP16.

 

 

Then again if Pascal can have that acrivated via drivers I would expect NVIDIA to do so if the performance gains are enough.

They recent put out a driver to up Titan Xp performance in Maya by 300%; most likely because AMD's Vega was thrashing them in workstation tasks at consumer prices.

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/08/01/nvidia_finds_lost_titan_xp_performance

 

ompetition is a great thing, but you have to ask yourself, "How do you speed up an application by 300%?" Thank you AMD. I am sure that new Radeon Pro cards had nothing to do with this.

[Valentyn]

25 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

first doom and now this, ID has being showing who's the boss at coding 

Now if only the rest of Bethesda's developers would use idTech and work as hard.

Fallout 5, and the next Elder Scrolls on optimised Vulkan would make so many people happy.

[cj09beira]

1 minute ago, Valentyn said:

Now if only the rest of Bethesda's developers would use idTech and work as hard.

Fallout 5, and the next Elder Scrolls on optimised Vulkan would make so many people happy.

insert shut up and take my money meme here:

 

if only all games would implement tressfx, or similar (NOT HAIRWORKS) as right now the most Immersion breaking thing is hair

which by the way is a great way to use fp16

[Valentyn]

Just now, cj09beira said:

insert shut up and take my money meme here:

 

if only all games would implement tressfx, or similar (NOT HAIRWORKS) as right now the most Immersion breaking thing is hair

which by the way is a great way to use fp16

 

We saw how well Pure Hair worked in the latest Tomb Raider. At the max setting tests showed it dropped 4FPS.
4 bloody FPS.
If I turned on Hairworks in the Witcher 3 on my 980Ti at 1440p, I'd drop from an average of 60fps to mid 40's.

 

I can tell you right now though, I do love hairworks. I can't imagine playing the game without it; and I have tried. Just the over tessellation and performance hit was massive.

 

 

 

I hope more developers take advantage of GPU Open, especially the audio side. I miss effects like EAX and enhanced environmentals so much.

[Arc_Jester]

30 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

? source ? 

(curious )

 

[Delicieuxz]

10 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Funny: besides Doom there's like just another game that actually uses Vulkan. Don't get me wrong iD games and Vulkan seem to favor AMD greatly they just have to convince more devs to make games with it too, specially know that another big AMD favoring publisher, Squeenix, might be downsizing their western releases in an effort to ramp up their failing JRPG games instead.

Developers / engines confirmed to be supporting the Vulkan API:

 

Epic (Unreal 4), Unity (Unity 5), Valve (Source 2), DICE (FrostBite), CroTeam (Serious Engine 4), id Software (id Tech 6), Crytek (Cry Engine V), Cloud Imperium Games (Star Citizen)
 

Those are mostly engines, though people can be on the look out for games made with them to support Vulkan.

[pas008]

everyone bickering about graphics and whats better

I rather have good replay/story/gameplay/etc over graphics anyday

do these really exist anymore?

 

lol seems like every topic turns into redgreen show

oh wait I can watch better redgreen show here

https://www.youtube.com/user/RedGreenTV

 

 

 

[ravenshrike]

48 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Fallout 5, and the next Elder Scrolls on optimised Vulkan would make so many people happy.

I'm sorry, you're joking right? The Gamebryo, sorry, Creation engine is the most hacked together piece of shite currently being used as a AAA game engine. It contains significant legacy code from Morrowind era Gamebryo that is integral to its higher functions. Among other things, this is why FPS is tied to so many damn physics calls, which was a shite solution in 2003 and is absolutely pathetic now.

[Valentyn]

2 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

I'm sorry, you're joking right? The Gamebryo, sorry, Creation engine is the most hacked together piece of shite currently being used as a AAA game engine. It contains significant legacy code from Morrowind era Gamebryo that is integral to its higher functions. Among other things, this is why FPS is tied to so many damn physics calls, which was a shite solution in 2003 and is absolutely pathetic now.

No I'm not joking. 

Wouldn't you prefer if the next Fallout or Elder Scrolls game was on Vulkan instead of the Creation Engine also?

[PCGuy_5960]

AMD is giving this game away with Vega, so is it really unexpected?

[Valentyn]

5 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

AMD is giving this game away with Vega, so is it really unexpected?

It's not expected at all.

 

Using FP16 is really difficult as it usually results is vastly inferior visuals. So using mixed precision and pulling off the performance benefits without the draw back is a lot of work; and knowing precisely which aspects of the rendering can be done with it.

Even Ubisoft are working on it for FarCry 5; although unlike idTech's engine team are significantly more lazy/incompetent.

So we might actually get to see something as well done as DOOM Vulkan was, and then a complete mess with Ubisoft's devs   I mean Ubisoft screw up their own visuals and rendering easily enough; without having to try and use mixed precision.

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

Now that I think about it, I find it funny that FP16 is going to be the "next big thing"

 

Because NVIDIA tried this years ago with the FX series.

 

10 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

No I'm not joking. 

Wouldn't you prefer if the next Fallout or Elder Scrolls game was on Vulkan instead of the Creation Engine also?

Graphics API doesn't help the fact that GameBryo/Creation is what appears to be a framework that tries to loosely couple together packages of data but doesn't really seem to do it with a high degree of stability.

[Derangel]

1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

Just look at the RX480 and doom. An average of 30FPS increase by simply swapping to Vulkan while Nvidia gained almost nothing

If I recall AMD was also behind Nvidia by a fair, though not overly huge, margin before Vulkan.

[Sniperfox47]

3 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Using FP16 is really difficult as it usually results is vastly inferior visuals. So using mixed precision and pulling off the performance benefits without the draw back is a lot of work; and knowing precisely which aspects of the rendering can be done with it.

Yeah, it feels like just a few years ago developers were pushing for higher and higher precision in rendering engines, and now they're switching back to fp16 for some stages. I'm wondering where they're using this... Not lighting, not geometry...

 

I guess it would be useful for some physics/compute tasks but...

[Derangel]

1 hour ago, Valentyn said:

Now if only the rest of Bethesda's developers would use idTech and work as hard.

Fallout 5, and the next Elder Scrolls on optimised Vulkan would make so many people happy.

idTech probably couldn't handle TES or FO. Gamebryo might be a broken piece of shit but Bethesda has done so much work on it over the years that I can't imagine another engine even working without them basically rewriting a vast portion of it.

[Valentyn]

2 minutes ago, Derangel said:

idTech probably couldn't handle TES or FO. Gamebryo might be a broken piece of shit but Bethesda has done so much work on it over the years that I can't imagine another engine even working without them basically rewriting a vast portion of it.

idtech was good enough for Rage and it was idTech 4 back then.

It's come a long way; and likely could handle it if used correctly; especially given how low level it is; and how well it performs.

[Valentyn]

3 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Yeah, it feels like just a few years ago developers were pushing for higher and higher precision in rendering engines, and now they're switching back to fp16 for some stages. I'm wondering where they're using this... Not lighting, not geometry...

 

I guess it would be useful for some physics/compute tasks but...

We'll have to wait and see, but it would be used for post-processing that doesn't need super accuracy. Some bloom and smaller physics parts be possible.

Will certainly be interesting to see where it goes.

 

9 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Now that I think about it, I find it funny that FP16 is going to be the "next big thing"

 

Because NVIDIA tried this years ago with the FX series.

 

I remember that well, even with half-precision they couldn't match the Radeon 9700Pro in performance, never mind the 9600 Pro.

Plus they had a massive trade off in visual quality.

id Software's engineers are very talented though, so we might get a wonderful surprise.

[Misanthrope]

29 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Developers / engines confirmed to be supporting the Vulkan API:

 

Epic (Unreal 4), Unity (Unity 5), Valve (Source 2), DICE (FrostBite), CroTeam (Serious Engine 4), id Software (id Tech 6), Crytek (Cry Engine V), Cloud Imperium Games (Star Citizen)
 

Those are mostly engines, though people can be on the look out for games made with them to support Vulkan.

Let's see:

 

1) Unreal 4 - Real chance at improving things

2) Unity 5 - Crap for casual and indie games, most AAA devs a.k.a. where performance matters a hell of a lot more, won't care

3) Source 2 - See above: Valve is just not into making many games anymore, they're more into the business of selling knives and hats when they bother to code games at all

4) DICE - Another real chance at improving things, yet EA is probably never gonna match Steam and limiting DICE games to basically Origin as the only platform (speaking pragmatically here) it's a shame.

5) Serious Engine 4 - Seriously unimpressed here, call me when devs pick this up for not serious sam games.

6) id Tech 6 - Part of the original point: most likely not gonna make it to non id games at all

7) Cry Engine V - Crytek is in trouble I doubt they'll recover. It's a shame but it is what it is.

8) Star Citizen engine - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

So overall no: I don't see much in the way of really changing the tide in favor of AMD here soon: Most of the split among AAA games will continue as is for the foreseeable future.

[Sakkura]

11 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Funny: besides Doom there's like just another game that actually uses Vulkan. Don't get me wrong iD games and Vulkan seem to favor AMD greatly they just have to convince more devs to make games with it too, specially know that another big AMD favoring publisher, Squeenix, might be downsizing their western releases in an effort to ramp up their failing JRPG games instead.

Vulkan is still pretty new. It arrived about a half year after DX12, and there's not the same Microsoft machine pushing adoption.

 

Most major games have development cycles well beyond the 1½ years that have passed since Vulkan was officially released, and for a proper implementation you'd want to have the graphics API locked down from early in development.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Also keep in mind that DirectX 12 and Vulkan aren't straightforward to work with. It's easier to get it wrong and see almost no improvement over DX11/OGL (if not worse) than it is to do it right. So for a lot of developers, it may be easier to just use DX11/OGL. And some many not even need it.

 

Perhaps it's a crude comparison, but it's like going from C#, Java, or Python to C. You can do amazing things in C, but it's also very easy to shoot yourself in the foot.

[Doobeedoo]

That's great! Leverage the new tech and use the new hardware to it's full potential. Good to see certain devs doing proper coding and utilizing extra features and not slacking in that term. 

[BuckGup]

37 minutes ago, Derangel said:

If I recall AMD was also behind Nvidia by a fair, though not overly huge, margin before Vulkan.

Yeah but it shows the software side of things can be improved upon greatly

[Humbug]

37 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

So we might actually get to see something as well done as DOOM Vulkan was, and then a complete mess with Ubisoft's devs   I mean Ubisoft screw up their own visuals and rendering easily enough; without having to try and use mixed precision.

I have watched some of the Vulkan developer talks and one interesting thing is that they do not oversell Vulkan.

They always emphasize that Vulkan should be used if you are a dev who has a deep understanding of graphics rendering.

 

Otherwise they say stick to the high level APIs.

 

So ya don't expect from ubisoft programmers the quality of work we see from Dice or iD.

[Humbug]

35 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Let's see:

 

1) Unreal 4 - Real chance at improving things

2) Unity 5 - Crap for casual and indie games, most AAA devs a.k.a. where performance matters a hell of a lot more, won't care

3) Source 2 - See above: Valve is just not into making many games anymore, they're more into the business of selling knives and hats when they bother to code games at all

4) DICE - Another real chance at improving things, yet EA is probably never gonna match Steam and limiting DICE games to basically Origin as the only platform (speaking pragmatically here) it's a shame.

5) Serious Engine 4 - Seriously unimpressed here, call me when devs pick this up for not serious sam games.

6) id Tech 6 - Part of the original point: most likely not gonna make it to non id games at all

7) Cry Engine V - Crytek is in trouble I doubt they'll recover. It's a shame but it is what it is.

8) Star Citizen engine - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

So overall no: I don't see much in the way of really changing the tide in favor of AMD here soon: Most of the split among AAA games will continue as is for the foreseeable future.

Your attitude to everything always reminds me of Squidward in spongebob.