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Wolfenstein II to use Rapid Packed Math

ravenshrike

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/software/wolfenstein_ii_the_new_colossus_will_support_fp16_rapid_packed_math/1

 

id Software has confirmed that Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus will support DirectX 12/Vulkan, Async Compute, Shader Intrinsics and Rapid Packed Math, making it of the most advanced games to date on a technical level. 

 

So here's where things get interesting. Given that it doesn't appear that nVidia will have anything in the high end console space within the next 3 years what happens as more and more ports are optimized for AMD architecture?

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5 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

So here's where things get interesting. Given that it doesn't appear that nVidia will have anything in the high end console space within the next 3 years what happens as more and more ports are optimized for AMD architecture?

Nothing happens to nVidia. Nothing.

PS4, Xbone, and basically all consoles in recent times (with the exception of the switch, which doesn't really count for game development, since it's ARM) have been AMD, and nVidia cards have been fine.

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Just now, ravenshrike said:

FP16. Half precision floating point. Good for modelling things like hair without having to kill your framerate.

How TF do you know this?

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2 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

How TF do you know this?

AMD slides:

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu_displays/amd_rx_vega_-_what_is_rapid_packed_math/1

 

Nvidia has been supporting this feature in Pascal, but only on their Quadro cards (GTX1080 does support it but its extremely slow so there is no reason using it):

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10325/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-1070-founders-edition-review/5

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But will it support SLI/Crossfire? Just found out by trying to play Wolfenstein: The Old Blood, that idTech5 doesn't support SLI at all and you can only barely make it work by forcing it in idTech6 (Doom)

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Why does it say DX12 / Vulkan.

I know that this engine already has a good Vulkan renderer.

 

Are they also gonna make a DX12 backend? If so probably just because of Xbox, doesn't make sense on PC.

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Funny: besides Doom there's like just another game that actually uses Vulkan. Don't get me wrong iD games and Vulkan seem to favor AMD greatly they just have to convince more devs to make games with it too, specially know that another big AMD favoring publisher, Squeenix, might be downsizing their western releases in an effort to ramp up their failing JRPG games instead.

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49 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Funny: besides Doom there's like just another game that actually uses Vulkan.

There's Talos Principle (now their Vulkan renderer performs good), Dota2, Serious Sam VR stuff. AOTS vulkan comes out within two months.

On the Linux world there are more Vulkan games but still limited. A lot are planned both on windows and Linux, but who knows how long it will take including some high profile like Ark Survival and Star Citizen.

 

The thing is all the developer tools and the development pipeline is already existing and mature around directX11 and OpenGL. So there is more knowledge, more examples and very mature support from game engines and tools and debuggers etc.

 

DirectX12 and Vulkan have yet to achieve that level of ecosystem

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Since Vulkan API itself supports mixed precision can they implement this in a way that works on Nvidia too?

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1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

Don't get me wrong iD games and Vulkan seem to favor AMD greatly

iD tech favoring AMD is only a recent development. Only since they updated their engine to Vulkan last year. Nvidia got a boost too but AMD got a huge boost. Traditionally iD used openGL API for which Nvidia had faster drivers.

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23 minutes ago, Humbug said:

Since Vulkan API itself supports mixed precision can they implement this in a way that works on Nvidia too?

Yes and no. The Maxwell chips have a jury-rigged implementation method that uses a FP32 Cuda core to do two FP16 ops at once, but they have to be the same operation e.g. addition, subtraction, etc... however at best assuming a perfectly designed workload this is no faster than FP32 which means there is no performance benefit. Moreover, the native implementation of the consumer Pascal chips is slower than its FP64 performance. This is because they intentionally crippled consumer Pascal FP16 performance to boost server side card sales. After all, nobody used it.

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9 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Funny: besides Doom there's like just another game that actually uses Vulkan. Don't get me wrong iD games and Vulkan seem to favor AMD greatly 

It doesnt favor AMD greatly. It makes use of AMD GPUs better compute capacity/features. Literally nothing stops Nvidia from having those features. One thing you could say favors AMD or Nvidia, for the sake of this example is if the witcher was forcing the use of Hairworks. That would favor Nvidia because AMD cant optimize for it as well as Nvidia. Nvidia could have added an async compute engine on their Pascal GPUs, they could have kept decent FP64 capacities too but they decided to not use those features.

 

In other words, ID Games and Vulkan do not favor AMD, it's the other way around. AMD is using those APIs (Dx12 and Vulkan) features to improve their performance.

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4 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

It doesnt favor AMD greatly. It makes use of AMD GPUs better compute capacity/features. Literally nothing stops Nvidia from having those features. One thing you could say favors AMD or Nvidia, for the sake of this example is if the witcher was forcing the use of Hairworks. That would favor Nvidia because AMD cant optimize for it as well as Nvidia. Nvidia could have added an async compute engine on their Pascal GPUs, they could have kept decent FP64 capacities too but they decided to not use those features.

 

In other words, ID Games and Vulkan do not favor AMD, it's the other way around. AMD is using those APIs (Dx12 and Vulkan) features to improve their performance.

It doesn't favors AMD greatly *proceeds to describes favoring AMD greatly*

 

Not interested in a semantics argument here. What I meant is just what I said: Games work better on AMD hardware for the GPU at least. I don't care who's fault it is.

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So basically AMD is going to wipe the floor with Nvidia because Maxwell has no a_sync support and Pascal is Maxwell and Volta is Pascal which is Maxwell. RIP Nvidia.

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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11 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

So here's where things get interesting. Given that it doesn't appear that nVidia will have anything in the high end console space within the next 3 years what happens as more and more ports are optimized for AMD architecture?

Nothing. As long as NVIDIA commands the PC gaming market share, game developers are going to be more convinced to optimize for NVIDIA over AMD.

 

9 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Don't get me wrong iD games and Vulkan seem to favor AMD greatly

id always favored the FOSS API. It just so happens that Vulkan came from Mantle, giving AMD their much needed boost for said FOSS API (ATi/AMD usually had crappy OGL support)

 

8 hours ago, Humbug said:

Only since they updated their engine to Vulkan last year. Nvidia got a boost too but AMD got a huge boost.

I've seen benchmarks where both got similar boosts. But I've also seen the ones where when AMD got a huge boost, NVIDIA was doing better in OGL to begin with and both camps went to the same performance level more or less in Vulkan. So this just seems to be that OGL is that bad for both sides, especially for AMD.

 

30 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

Nvidia could have added an async compute engine on their Pascal GPUs, they could have kept decent FP64 capacities too but they decided to not use those features.

Adding ACEs would be going backwards in hardware design for NVIDIA. The reason why Kepler, Maxwell, and Pascal are very efficient performance-wise is they don't have a hardware scheduler. However they fixed the shortcomings on Pascal by allowing the GPU to fill the any idle shaders for the remaining job. ACEs are not a requirement for "asynchronous compute". It's AMD marketing BS designed to make you think hardware scheduling is the only thing that works for mixed workloads.

 

Also there's no point for adding a ton of FP64 support since games don't need FP64. NVIDIA might be wetting themselves just a little though for not including better FP16 support on Pascal, but eh, they'll just add it in Volta. And they could fudge more FP16 support if needed by promoting FP16 data types to FP32 to run on the shaders.

 

3 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

So basically AMD is going to wipe the floor with Nvidia because Maxwell has no a_sync support and Pascal is Maxwell and Volta is Pascal which is Maxwell. RIP Nvidia.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10325/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-1070-founders-edition-review/9

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Pretty nice to see AMD actually get off their ass and push another game. I remember a time when they actually cared to try and work with several developers to get good PC ports released.

 

As for the question of games being more optimized for AMD: It hasn't happened in the nearly four years the PS4 and XB1 have been out, it isn't going to happen now. AMD's PC gaming marketshare is far too low for developers to go out of their way to prioritize them over Nvidia unless they're given a reason to do so. If AMD can regain some marketshare maybe that question could produce more interesting answers, but that isn't the case right now.

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1 minute ago, BuckGup said:

So basically AMD is going to wipe the floor with Nvidia because Maxwell has no a_sync support and Pascal is Maxwell and Volta is Pascal which is Maxwell. RIP Nvidia.

Not wipe the floor with, but you should see better legacy hardware performance and an increase in same-tier performance on AMDs side. They still don't have an answer to the 1080ti, unless they're working on a dual-GPU card that they can force the system see as a single card. 

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6 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

So basically AMD is going to wipe the floor with Nvidia because Maxwell has no a_sync support and Pascal is Maxwell and Volta is Pascal which is Maxwell. RIP Nvidia.

 

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9 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Not wipe the floor with, but you should see better legacy hardware performance and an increase in same-tier performance on AMDs side. They still don't have an answer to the 1080ti, unless they're working on a dual-GPU card that they can force the system see as a single card. 

Just look at the RX480 and doom. An average of 30FPS increase by simply swapping to Vulkan while Nvidia gained almost nothing

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 minutes ago, Arc_Jester said:

Apparently Far Cry 5(6) is also going to support Rapid Packed Math.

? source ? 

(curious )

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I'm interested in Vega 56/64 AIB cards. I don't quite know what kind of performance hit I am willing to take over nvidia yet, I'll be waiting for reviews to hit to find out whether or not I'll be saving for a used 1080 or a Vega 56 or 64

 

 

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