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CUDAcores89

Why 2017 is the best time to buy an X99 motherboard

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Posted · Original PosterOP

With the new release of Intel X299, Ryzen and threadripper just around the corner, you might be scratching your head at this title. Why on earth would one buy into an obsolete platform today when there is much cheaper options available today?

 

The answer comes down to 4 words: Xeons and server RAM

 

You see every 2-3 years these huge corporations like google and facebook upgrade their servers with newer, faster and most importantly, power efficient ones. From a corporation's perspective, they have to keep these servers running 24/7 all the time, so even 20-30 watts of power saving can hugely add up when you are running thousands of servers 24/7 all the time. Therefore these companies need to get rid of their old parts, but where do they go?

 

Their old servers are decommissioned and sold to scrap yards and computer recyclers for scrap value. Many of these smaller recyclers then take the resellable parts like the CPUs and RAM and list these parts up on ebay. However if you have thousands of the exact same CPU and RAM being listed at one, the price is driven down massively due to the flood of new stock. This is just simple supply and demand, and if you can get in early on this, you can get yourself a many-core xeon + massive amounts of RAM for dirt cheap. 

 

Don't believe me, let's look at some market trends over time:

 

This happened to the Xeon E5450 in 2012-2013. This CPU was selling for around $1000 a piece when it was first released:

 

https://ark.intel.com/products/33083/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5450-12M-Cache-3_00-GHz-1333-MHz-FSB

 

Now look at the prices. You can find this CPU for as little as $15 on ebay:

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_sop=15&_nkw=xeon+E5450&rt=nc&LH_BIN=1

 

Meanwhile motherboard prices have skyrocketed. Everyone wants to jump on these super-cheap Xeons but now everyone needs a board for them. LGA 775 boards were not as affected by the price gouging but you can still see it. In order to buy an overclockable LGA 775 board with 4 RAM slots (many of the 2 slot boards are cheaper), you will need to pay around $50 for what amounts to an almost 10 year old motherboard

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sop=15&LH_BIN=1&_from=R40&_sacat=0&Socket%20Type=LGA%20775%2FSocket%20T&Brand=ASRock|ASUS|GIGABYTE|MSI&_dcat=1244&_nkw=motherboard+775&LH_PrefLoc=3&_pgn=2&_skc=50&rt=nc

 

this also happened to the Xeon X5650 in 2014, let's look at X58. This chip had an original MSRP of around $1000 at it's release date

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/47922/Intel-Xeon-Processor-X5650-12M-Cache-2_66-GHz-6_40-GTs-Intel-QPI

 

Yet these chips can now be found on ebay for as low as $20!

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=motherboard+775&LH_PrefLoc=3&Brand=ASRock|ASUS|GIGABYTE|MSI&_sop=15&LH_BIN=1&_dcat=1244&Socket%20Type=LGA%20775%2FSocket%20T&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xxeon+x5650.TRS0&_nkw=xeon+x5650&_sacat=0

 

Now look at the motherboard prices. X58 motherboard to this day are STILL going for around $150 for a branded board from asus, gigabyte, asrock or MSI. The cheap xeons flooded the market and everyone wanted to pick up a board to use their xeon in. But wait, there are fewer boards available than xeons, so the price for these boards goes up. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/Motherboards/1244/i.html?_sop=15&LH_BIN=1&_from=R40&_nkw=motherboard x58&LH_PrefLoc=3&_dcat=1244&rt=nc&Brand=ASRock|ASUS|EVGA|GIGABYTE|Intel|MSI

 

Yes, there are some cheap chinese unbranded boards available. The problem is these boards only have 3 RAM slots, and likely do not have the best VRMs. I suppose you could buy these boards, just don't overclock them. 

 

Still don't believe me? Okay, let's look at X79. In 2016 the market became flooded with the Xeon E5-2670. That CPU also had an original MSRP of around $1500:

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/64595/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2670-20M-Cache-2_60-GHz-8_00-GTs-Intel-QPI

 

Now these CPUs can be found for around $120 (they were going for 70 bucks in 2016 but 120 is still a good price):

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/CPUs-Processors/164/i.html?_from=R40&LH_BIN=1&_sop=15&_nkw=e5 2670&_dcat=164&Socket%20Type=LGA%202011%2FSocket%20R&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

 

Meanwhile, ECC server RAM has become deeply discounted in price. You can now pick up an 8x8GB (64GB total) kit of ECC registered DDR3 for around $150:

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=8x8+DDR3&_sop=15

 

Now look at x79 board prices. Just like previously, the board prices skyrocketed for X79 boards. You will not have to pay $200-300 for a used working X79 board from the likes of Asus, Asrock, MSI, EVGA, Intel or Gigabyte, Again, there are some of these cheap chinese boards available. But they still only have 4 RAM slots and probably don't have the best build quality. Buy these if you want, but their feature set is quite minimal:

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/CPUs-Processors/164/i.html?_from=R40&LH_BIN=1&_sop=15&_nkw=e5 2670&_dcat=164&Socket%20Type=LGA%202011%2FSocket%20R&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

 

So where does all of this leave us now? Currently this leaves us with X99 being the next contender for cheap xeons and RAM. I predict the xeons and low density early ECC DDR4 will flood ebay in 2019-2020. I do now know what kind of xeons they will be, but they will likely be 10-12 core xeons going for around $100 and they will likely be 4GB sticks of server RAM. 

 

This is why 2017 is the best time to buy into X99. These boards can be found for $100-150 on newegg for refurbished or open box boards. Once the xeons hit however, prices will rise to over $200 for a used motherboard. 

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007627 600533617&IsNodeId=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=36

 

I highly, highly recommend picking up these boards now when you can as starting 2018, we will start to see signs of the xeons and super cheap low density DDR4 hitting ebay and prices will skyrocket. 

 

You can choose to either hold onto the board and wait, or you can purchase an Intel Xeon e5-1620 v3 for around $200 today.

 

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=xeon+e5+1620&_sop=15&LH_BIN=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC0.A0.H0.Xxeon+e5+1620+v3.TRS1&_nkw=xeon+e5+1620+v3&_sacat=0

 

XEON UPDATE: @lifeofgold just informed me that his Xeon e5-1620 v3 was NOT unlocked. On his motherboard with his configuration the multiplier wouldn't budge ,so this may not be a viable CPU anymore. As such I have changed my recommendation to the i7-5820K. This CPU is selling for around $250 on ebay right now and even lower locally. For an extra $50 you get two more cores and a higher resale value later down the road when you want to upgrade your CPU (i series CPUs don't depreciate nearly as much as xeons do). I am still leaving the recommendation for a xeon e5-1620 v3 in here however if you happen to get it for a really good price or don't mind not being able to overclock. 

 

This CPU is basically a quad-core haswell i7 with a lower clockspeed. Because it is the xeon e5 1600 series, these CPUs are actually multiplier unlocked. Yes, you can overclock a xeon. Overclock this thing to 4GHz+ and you basically have an i7 4790K while you wait for the many-core xeons to hit later for super cheap. When you first invest in this platform, the price to performance ratio will actually be worse than buying a ryzen 5 machine. The difference is you are on an X99 platform where you can upgrade much further than one can ever do on Ryzen. Thus extending the life of your system well beyond ryzen and AM4. 

 

By buying an X99 board today, we are buying them at the lowest price they will ever be. the price from now until the xeon flood will only cause board prices to go up. It is best to buy as low as one can now instead of having to pay the huge prices later on. 

 

so what should you look for when buying an X99 board? Make sure the board supports both xeon CPUs and ECC Registered server memory. This is VERY important, as it will allow one to take advantage of these low priced parts later on. 

 

For reference the board in my main system is currently the Gigabyte X99 SLI. This motherboard supports both xeon Xeon e5 2600 and 4600 v3 and v4 series CPUs. It also supports ECC registered server memory according to the product page. checking for these functions of VERY VERY important to do because if you buy a board that does not support either of these things, you might as well not have bought a board at all. Many gigabyte boards support these functions. All Asrock boards support xeons and server RAM. Only some MSI boards support xeons and server RAM so you will have to check before buying. Asus boards have the lowest support for these parts. Many asus boards will work with xeons, but there are very few that work with ECC RDIMMs. Asus has a few workstation X99 boards that will, but they are very expensive and harder to find. 

 

If you want to save money on your PC in not just the short term when buying parts, but also the long run, jump onto X99 now. You won't regret it. X99 is an awesome platform. You have 8 RAM slots 40 PCIe lanes (with xeons) the boards are huge and you will have more connectivity to choke a horse. Intel's enthusiast platform are really more long-lasting platforms, just look at good ol' X58. To this day there are still people rocking i7-920s and are perfectly happy. 

 

Trust me, you people will read this post and regret not buying an X99 board, I can just see it now.

 

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Isn't it always like this, ever since the original Pentium? :P

 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, NumLock21 said:

Isn't it always like this, ever since the original Pentium? :P

 

no. This is a trend that started about 10 years ago. Back then PCs become obsolete so fast that by the time companies dumped their old servers, the parts inside were too slow compared to the stuff released today. CPUs are not moving nearly as fast now, so one can actually do this. 

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No thanks, new or bust. 


Laptop: 2016 13" nTB MacBook Pro Core i5 | Phone: iPhone 6s Plus 64GB Wearables: Apple Watch Sport Series 2 CPU: i5 4690k | Mobo: Gigabyte Z97-N WI-FI | RAM: 8GB Ballistix Sport | GPU: Sapphire Nitro+ RX 580 4GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 10 | Storage: 480GB PNY SSD & 2TB WD Green HDD | PSU: Corsair CX600M | Display: Dell UZ2215H 21.5" 1080p, ViewSonic VX2450wm-LED 23.6" 1080p, Samsung SyncMaster 940BX 19" 1024p | Cooling: Corsair H55 AiO | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G303 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

No thanks, new or bust. 

Then you can go out and spend hundreds of dollars more than is needed while i'll have more money in the bank than you while simultaneously having a faster PC

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Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

no. This is a trend that started about 10 years ago. Back then PCs become obsolete so fast that by the time companies dumped their old servers, the parts inside were too slow compared to the stuff released today. CPUs are not moving nearly as fast now, so one can actually do this. 

Went to ebay during the time I got my 1650 v3, and they have like 12 or 14 core with HT, for half the price of what I paid for.


Intel Xeon E5 1650 v3 @ 3.5GHz 6C:12T / CM212 Evo / Asus X99 Deluxe / 16GB (4x4GB) DDR4 3000 Trident-Z / Samsung 850 Pro 256GB / Intel 335 240GB / WD Red 2 & 3TB / Antec 850w / HD5850 / Win10 Pro x64

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HP Envy x360 BP series Intel 8th gen

AMD ThreadRipper 2!

5820K & 6800K 3-way SLI mobo support list

 

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10 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

i'll have more money in the bank than you while simultaneously having a faster PC

You're absolutely right. I'm sorry for speaking out of line 


Laptop: 2016 13" nTB MacBook Pro Core i5 | Phone: iPhone 6s Plus 64GB Wearables: Apple Watch Sport Series 2 CPU: i5 4690k | Mobo: Gigabyte Z97-N WI-FI | RAM: 8GB Ballistix Sport | GPU: Sapphire Nitro+ RX 580 4GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 10 | Storage: 480GB PNY SSD & 2TB WD Green HDD | PSU: Corsair CX600M | Display: Dell UZ2215H 21.5" 1080p, ViewSonic VX2450wm-LED 23.6" 1080p, Samsung SyncMaster 940BX 19" 1024p | Cooling: Corsair H55 AiO | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G303 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball

 

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SHHHHHH don't tell them

If I had $ I would have one, but i've got more important things to buy


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op is correct


3x 128GB Samsung PM961 M.2 (2x Kryom PCI-E M.2 by Aqua Computer) on windows os raid and 1x PM961 as os Host on the motherboard m.2 slot
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Couldn't be different tho, considering the shortage of DDR4 memory? Don't get me wrong, I'd like it to be cheap cause I want to upgrade my old server, but it may not be as big considering that some people realize that most computers pretty much last a very long time.

 

Also, the difference in power consumption from DDR2 to DDR3 is huge compared to DDR3 to DDR4, which could be a reason why some companies might not upgrade just yet.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, computerNewbie said:

Couldn't be different tho, considering the shortage of DDR4 memory? Don't get me wrong, I'd like it to be cheap cause I want to upgrade my old server, but it may not be as big considering that some people realize that most computers pretty much last a very long time. 

There is a shortage of DDR3 memory too (many computers out there still use it) and DDR3 can be found for cheap. Also by the time server DDR4 hits ebay we will be back to cheap RAM prices again as RAM prices change over time like many other commodities. 

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On 22/07/2017 at 5:34 PM, CUDA_Cores said:

 

This CPU is basically a quad-core haswell i7 with a lower clockspeed. Because it is the xeon e5 1600 series, these CPUs are actually multiplier unlocked. Yes, you can overclock a xeon. Overclock this thing to 4GHz+ and you basically have an i7 4790K while you wait for the many-core xeons to hit later for super cheap. When you first invest in this platform, the price to performance ratio will actually be worse than buying a ryzen 5 machine. The difference is you are on an X99 platform where you can upgrade much further than one can ever do on Ryzen. Thus extending the life of your system well beyond ryzen and AM4. 

 

 

as an e5 1620 v3 owner
i do confirm certain of the 16xx line up are unlocked
but they are engineering samples
mine is not unlocked
i can only change the blck ratio which i will never do because i search for stability in my system


3x 128GB Samsung PM961 M.2 (2x Kryom PCI-E M.2 by Aqua Computer) on windows os raid and 1x PM961 as os Host on the motherboard m.2 slot
+ 250GB Samsung 850 EVO
+ 7200RPM Seagate 1 Terabyte HDD
  • PSU
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  • Cooling
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  • Mouse
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@CUDA_Cores you may not need to wait that much: I've just seen a 5820K go for EUR 200 and a 6800K go for EUR 278 on eBay. That's Ryzen 1600 and Ryzen 1700 (on a good deal) territory, respectively. I think the difference in features could justify the difference in price of the motherboards, so used 2011-3 CPUs can already make this viable. Just don't pay the outdated MSRP :P 

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On 7/22/2017 at 6:45 PM, CUDA_Cores said:

Then you can go out and spend hundreds of dollars more than is needed while i'll have more money in the bank than you while simultaneously having a faster PC

Not really, used parts might be decent but they will be slower than the newer stuff, that is like comparing a FX 8320 to a R7 1700, sure the price is higher but so is performance.

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5 hours ago, spat55 said:

Not really, used parts might be decent but they will be slower than the newer stuff, that is like comparing a FX 8320 to a R7 1700, sure the price is higher but so is performance.

Except X99 CPUs are faster than X299 ones a good amount of the time.

 

@NrKj105 @spat55

 

Here you see the 7820X is pretty much smacked down by a 6900K at the same clock. Still funny boys?

 


.

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5 hours ago, spat55 said:

Not really, used parts might be decent but they will be slower than the newer stuff, that is like comparing a FX 8320 to a R7 1700, sure the price is higher but so is performance.

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. FX was (is) craptastic. Yes new will be slightly faster, but not by enough to justify the extra cost. 


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1 hour ago, asand1 said:

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. FX was (is) craptastic. Yes new will be slightly faster, but not by enough to justify the extra cost. 

I had a pair of FXs for gaming. (6 core ones) They were a fine CPU. They did the job - sure, Intel did it better, but the FX still did it at, or exceeding, the performance levels I needed for the $$. (my nephew still uses that FX for Overwatch, BF1, WoW & other lesser Steam games + a 1050 Ti and it runs everything great)
This is like saying a Ford Taurus is a piece of shit because the Tesla is doing the same thing. Each has their place & does it's job. It if meets your needs, then it's a worthwhile investment. 


CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K @ 4.1GHz / CPU Cooler: Enermax ETS-T40-BK / Motherboard: MSI Z97M Gaming mATX / Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) @ 1866MHz / Storage: Corsair Force Series GT 120GB, Kingston SSDNow M.2 120GB M.2-2280, Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB /
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On 8/14/2017 at 4:00 AM, asand1 said:

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about. FX was (is) craptastic. Yes new will be slightly faster, but not by enough to justify the extra cost. 

That is your opinion that it doesn't justify cost, for me it does because I like to upgrade less frequently than most but get long warranties (At least 3+ years) with my parts, sure if someone wants to buy some older motherboards that is fine but I wouldn't want it to die on me and have to stump a huge amount to get another used replacement.

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i got an x58 board Asus p6T a Xeon x5679 its a real chip (no intel ark page tho) and 9gb of DDR3 for 160 bucks. its the basis on an unraid build and was a killer deal in my mind

 

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this thread is awesome, i guess i am converting from X79 to X99 because X79 used boards are priced crazily, though i found a Rampage IV for like $139.40

can you give like a cpu list for which are good processors for either X79 and X99


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Just as I understand this it might not even be worth it to build on X99 right now if you already have a PC or the rest of these components are too pricy for you, just buy a MOBO and wait for the rest to happen in a few years or if after those years you still decide you don't wanna build on that you can just sell that MOBO for almost double the price... I find the option of buying just the MOBO tempting, especilly when I see a local deal on a good MSI one with support for Xeons and ECC memory for just $85.

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Hey wait a second.. Why didn't I know of this thread beforehand!!

 

I'm a really big X99 fanboy, mostly due to how awesome my used X99 Deluxe I picked up for $120 on ebay is. I think X99 is a great option too what with all the refurb sales going right now. I actually started an X99 Xeon master race thread based off of the X58 xeon master race some others had organized. @CUDA_Cores, we should merge threads or something, it would be awesome: 

Or at least just check it out. I would appreciate it. I would also like to create a resource for X99 overclocking noobs like me so that we can understand better the inner workings of X99 and how to get the best overclocks on the Xeons that go with it.

 

EDIT: oh and, I wanted to ask you a quick question about my board (the x99 deluxe) - half of my ram slots are not working (I have it paired with a xeon e5-2609 v3). one or two of the pins were out of place but I'm pretty sure I bent them back into place. would you have any other idea of what could be the culprit for this? I'm kinda sad that my 8-slot board only has 4 working slots. BTW, the broken slots are all the black ones (the grey ones work fine). 


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PC Specs:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master MasterLiquid Lite 120

RAM: 2x8gb Corsair Vengence DDR4 Red LED @ 3066mt/s

Motherboard: MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon

GPU: XFX RX 580 GTR XXX White 

Storage: Mushkin ECO3 256GB SATA3 SSD + Some hitachi thing

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OS: Windows 10 x64 Pro Version 1607

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PC Specs:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550

CPU Cooler: Stock heatsink

RAM: GSkill 4gb DDR2 1066mt/s

Motherboard: Asus P5n-e SLI

GPU: 8800 GTS 640mb, I swap between that and my 8800 GTS 512mb

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More PC's

 

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