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lukesterboy

Changing RJ11 terminals to RJ45

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Basically I've moved into a new property. They have ran telephone points in several rooms but the cable is actually rj45. My question is what speeds and what cables do I need to connect?

 

So the telephone line comes in down stairs to my hallway and bt have now fitted a master socket 5C as shown below. In my bedroom there is a wallplate where they have put two RJ11. I want to change one of these to rj45.

 

How will I get an rj45 back into the daisy chain of rj45 from the router point in the hall way?

 

Not sure if I've explained what I want to do that clear. But if you need me to explain more please just ask. Thanks.

 

Also I think the fastest I can get is 100Mbps since I will only be able to use 3 pairs (6 cables) since the other 2 cables are used by the telephone line in of course. 100Mbps will be fine though( I believe it only needs 2 pairs but correct me if I'm wrong)

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For 100 mbps, only 4 wires are used in the RJ45 connector.

 

ethernet_10_100_1000.jpg.b6b9ece044825ddb61f69e2a567977b6.jpg

 

The green and orange wires can be switched, as long as the order of the wires is the same on both ends (like use white-orange instead of white-green, orange instead of green, white-green instead of white orange and green instead of orange)

 

568b.png.311033ffc972a8bb6577871c6ef24f2d.png

 

The blue wires were/are often used for PoE (power over ethernet), to send some power to devices at the end of the cable (like phones), which are aware of PoE (have the circuitry inside). 

For 100 mbps, the brown wires were never used.

 

So because only 4 wires are used for 100 mbps, often people tried to save cable by splitting the wires in 2 groups and use the green and orange for one 100mbps network port and the blue and brown wires for the second network port (so they could have two phones or computers without using switches)

In theory you can use 2 wires out of those four unused wires to connect a phone, but usually the phone cable is thinner than ethernet cable so your ethernet wires may be hard to connect to your small RJ11 ports.

 

 

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i don't think you will reach 100mbit with that clusterfuck of wires. if you want a good stable connection i recommend running a new proper wire trough it, but maybe this will work  fine who knows. those wires look crusty, old and uninsulated unshielded. what does it say on the grey insulation? what cat version is it?

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Ethernet cable really isn't expensive to buy, and you should be able to install it through the existing holes with relative ease. As said by @tlink, you likely won't reach 100Mbps with those cables and the connection might be unstable.


I'm Nitroblast. I do stuff. I'm also a Twitch mod for @Slick

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 hours ago, tlink said:

i don't think you will reach 100mbit with that clusterfuck of wires. if you want a good stable connection i recommend running a new proper wire trough it, but maybe this will work  fine who knows. those wires look crusty, old and uninsulated unshielded. what does it say on the grey insulation? what cat version is it?

There is nothing wrong with the cables. Most cat cable is unshielded? It's cat 5e so its fine.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 hours ago, Nitroblast said:

Ethernet cable really isn't expensive to buy, and you should be able to install it through the existing holes with relative ease. As said by @tlink, you likely won't reach 100Mbps with those cables and the connection might be unstable.

To do a pull through that distance is not possible. Like I said it's daisy chained... So there is no through way from the router to my room since there is another room inbetween.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 hours ago, mariushm said:

For 100 mbps, only 4 wires are used in the RJ45 connector.

 

ethernet_10_100_1000.jpg.b6b9ece044825ddb61f69e2a567977b6.jpg

 

The green and orange wires can be switched, as long as the order of the wires is the same on both ends (like use white-orange instead of white-green, orange instead of green, white-green instead of white orange and green instead of orange)

 

568b.png.311033ffc972a8bb6577871c6ef24f2d.png

 

The blue wires were/are often used for PoE (power over ethernet), to send some power to devices at the end of the cable (like phones), which are aware of PoE (have the circuitry inside). 

For 100 mbps, the brown wires were never used.

 

So because only 4 wires are used for 100 mbps, often people tried to save cable by splitting the wires in 2 groups and use the green and orange for one 100mbps network port and the blue and brown wires for the second network port (so they could have two phones or computers without using switches)

In theory you can use 2 wires out of those four unused wires to connect a phone, but usually the phone cable is thinner than ethernet cable so your ethernet wires may be hard to connect to your small RJ11 ports.

 

 

Thanks for the info it helped and got it all sorted now. Since the orange was being used I swapped that for brown and put it in the same pin.

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7 hours ago, lukesterboy said:

There is nothing wrong with the cables. Most cat cable is unshielded? It's cat 5e so its fine.

the cables are twisted for a reason, in the picture they are not twisted but in a knot. this will increase crosstalk, especially when they all are in a knot like that, its basically a messy coil generating an magnetic field of cross talk and instability.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, tlink said:

the cables are twisted for a reason, in the picture they are not twisted but in a knot. this will increase crosstalk, especially when they all are in a knot like that, its basically a messy coil generating an magnetic field of cross talk and instability.

It's easily unknottable. And cut and twisted in a way that doesn't have crosstalk. It's not that bad anyway. I've done it now and I never even really tidied it up, but it works fine. Solid 95 Mbps.

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6 minutes ago, lukesterboy said:

It's easily unknottable. And cut and twisted in a way that doesn't have crosstalk. It's not that bad anyway. I've done it now and I never even really tidied it up, but it works fine. Solid 95 Mbps.

then gg it worked out, at my parents we had a similar situation but even after tidying up it had problems with packet drops and stuff like that, maybe it was close to a powerline or something.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, tlink said:

then gg it worked out, at my parents we had a similar situation but even after tidying up it had problems with packet drops and stuff like that, maybe it was close to a powerline or something.

Packet drops? Big packet drops? I ran some local speed tests and it seems fine. I'm still waiting on internet to be installed so maybe I might come across problems when I get that and conduct speed tests. We will see. I will update this post in a few weeks. 

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When the standards were made , they did all the math about transmission and reception power levels required to achieve 100mbps and 1gbps UP TO 105 meters (100 meters of uninterrupted cable + up to 5 meters for connection between wall sockets/ports to devices) with the silicon and technology of those days. They also factored in how well  the error correction algorithms they chose would correct bits over such distances.

Back then, in order to guarantee 100mbps they decided the wires in the cable must have specific technical properties (resistance per meter), the minimum thickness of insulation on each wire to guarantee the wire won't pick bits from other wires like an antenna, and they even had to decide the number of twists per inch for each pair of wires in the cable ... yeah, each pair of wires has or should have a slightly different number of twists, which helps prevent signals on some pairs from interfering with signal on other pairs.

When you go to cat6, that's not enough. most cat6 or higher cables have each pair further insulated by some foil, and for some cat6a cables, there's a dielectric (plastic or something insulating) cross over the whole length of the cable for further signal separation.

 

Anyway, the point is that when they made the standard they did the math and said that in order to achieve maximum speed without loss of quality over the maximum length of cable in the standard, there shouldn't be more than maybe a few cm (or around 2 inches) of untwisted wires ..basically the wires should be twisted  all the way inside a network jack or behind a patch panel.

 

Now again,bear in mind that this was to guarantee no bad data up to 105 meters and with tech from the 90's when 100mbps was made.

 

You have much shorter distances in your house so the signal quality doesn't degrade so much until it reaches the other end of the cable, and the modern network cards have processors that are way more powerful (compared to first 100mbps cards) and can correct more errors before packets would have to be re-transmitted.

 

So that  big length of untwisted wires is bad, and definitely there shouldn't be loops in the untwisted wires but modern hardware will be quite a bit more tolerant and less sensitive compared to hardware from 10+ years ago.

 

With 1gbps speeds I think you would see errors and packets being retransmitted but at 100 mbps it's probably fine.

 

I'd say still fix it though.Buy a punch down tool and a new wall plate , cut the wires to proper length and punch the wires in proper order on the connector.

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
14 hours ago, mariushm said:

When the standards were made , they did all the math about transmission and reception power levels required to achieve 100mbps and 1gbps UP TO 105 meters (100 meters of uninterrupted cable + up to 5 meters for connection between wall sockets/ports to devices) with the silicon and technology of those days. They also factored in how well  the error correction algorithms they chose would correct bits over such distances.

Back then, in order to guarantee 100mbps they decided the wires in the cable must have specific technical properties (resistance per meter), the minimum thickness of insulation on each wire to guarantee the wire won't pick bits from other wires like an antenna, and they even had to decide the number of twists per inch for each pair of wires in the cable ... yeah, each pair of wires has or should have a slightly different number of twists, which helps prevent signals on some pairs from interfering with signal on other pairs.

When you go to cat6, that's not enough. most cat6 or higher cables have each pair further insulated by some foil, and for some cat6a cables, there's a dielectric (plastic or something insulating) cross over the whole length of the cable for further signal separation.

 

Anyway, the point is that when they made the standard they did the math and said that in order to achieve maximum speed without loss of quality over the maximum length of cable in the standard, there shouldn't be more than maybe a few cm (or around 2 inches) of untwisted wires ..basically the wires should be twisted  all the way inside a network jack or behind a patch panel.

 

Now again,bear in mind that this was to guarantee no bad data up to 105 meters and with tech from the 90's when 100mbps was made.

 

You have much shorter distances in your house so the signal quality doesn't degrade so much until it reaches the other end of the cable, and the modern network cards have processors that are way more powerful (compared to first 100mbps cards) and can correct more errors before packets would have to be re-transmitted.

 

So that  big length of untwisted wires is bad, and definitely there shouldn't be loops in the untwisted wires but modern hardware will be quite a bit more tolerant and less sensitive compared to hardware from 10+ years ago.

 

With 1gbps speeds I think you would see errors and packets being retransmitted but at 100 mbps it's probably fine.

 

I'd say still fix it though.Buy a punch down tool and a new wall plate , cut the wires to proper length and punch the wires in proper order on the connector.

 

Yeah, maybe in the future I will fix it. If I see a degrade in performance I will definitely fix it. Here are the speeds I'm getting on each end of two wired laptop devices. 93 I think is acceptable right? Is a 7 Megabit loss really a concern? Bearing in mind I didn't tidy up the cables at all. Would tidying them up boost it to 100 do you think? I personally think it's just because of the fact there is two ins and outs and a exposed twisted copper join inbetween.

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It's not about maximum speed, but about how many data packets would have to be retransmitted due to errors on the cable.

 

Think for example multiplayer games where you game constantly sends and receives just a few kilobytes per second, but the data packets have to be processed super fast (latency matters). For example, you are in Counterstrike and you shoot a player and at that moment the game sends the data packet which tells the server that you made a shot, but between your computer and the router or cable modem or whatever is at the other end, the packet gets corrupted, so your computer has to retransmit the data packet. Because of this, instead of taking 10ms for your data packet to reach the game server, it may take 20ms for your data packet to reach the server. (i'm exaggerating of course but you get the idea)

Such "packet loss" or corruption is more noticeable for VoIP or for example when talking to people using Skype or other programs ... corrupted packets can cause delays in reception or glitches.

 

For downloads, the network card basically receives a stream of data packets and every once in a while, it says to the other computer "ok i got so this many packets of data and all were correct, keep going" , or it may say "hey man, i received so many packets of data but packet number 5 was bad so send it again" ... and the network card on the other end has to pause that stream of packets to insert packet number 5 in the queue at the beginning and then resume

 

Those interruptions in the flux of packets is what can lower the maximum speeds of downloads... you could download at 90 mbps or 11 MB/s but a single packet of let's say 4 KB of information could arrive corrupted due to the some bit being degraded in your network cable, and that can be enough to slow down the average download speed. 

 

The quality of the cable can also influence anything that uses UDP instead of regular TCP/IP ... UDP is a more lightweight communication protocol, which drops error correction and other protections for simplicity.. lots of applications use UDP .. multiplayer games, torrent clients use UDP to talk to trackers, and so on..

It's highly unlikely but some packets arriving through UDP may be corrupted and your computer wouldn't know because UDP doesn't corrent

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
54 minutes ago, mariushm said:

It's not about maximum speed, but about how many data packets would have to be retransmitted due to errors on the cable.

 

Think for example multiplayer games where you game constantly sends and receives just a few kilobytes per second, but the data packets have to be processed super fast (latency matters). For example, you are in Counterstrike and you shoot a player and at that moment the game sends the data packet which tells the server that you made a shot, but between your computer and the router or cable modem or whatever is at the other end, the packet gets corrupted, so your computer has to retransmit the data packet. Because of this, instead of taking 10ms for your data packet to reach the game server, it may take 20ms for your data packet to reach the server. (i'm exaggerating of course but you get the idea)

Such "packet loss" or corruption is more noticeable for VoIP or for example when talking to people using Skype or other programs ... corrupted packets can cause delays in reception or glitches.

 

For downloads, the network card basically receives a stream of data packets and every once in a while, it says to the other computer "ok i got so this many packets of data and all were correct, keep going" , or it may say "hey man, i received so many packets of data but packet number 5 was bad so send it again" ... and the network card on the other end has to pause that stream of packets to insert packet number 5 in the queue at the beginning and then resume

 

Those interruptions in the flux of packets is what can lower the maximum speeds of downloads... you could download at 90 mbps or 11 MB/s but a single packet of let's say 4 KB of information could arrive corrupted due to the some bit being degraded in your network cable, and that can be enough to slow down the average download speed. 

 

The quality of the cable can also influence anything that uses UDP instead of regular TCP/IP ... UDP is a more lightweight communication protocol, which drops error correction and other protections for simplicity.. lots of applications use UDP .. multiplayer games, torrent clients use UDP to talk to trackers, and so on..

It's highly unlikely but some packets arriving through UDP may be corrupted and your computer wouldn't know because UDP doesn't corrent

 

I see what you are saying. How can I test packets then? The speed test I did is literally sending a file from point a to point b. 100MB took 10 seconds I believe.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
19 hours ago, mariushm said:

It's not about maximum speed, but about how many data packets would have to be retransmitted due to errors on the cable.

 

Think for example multiplayer games where you game constantly sends and receives just a few kilobytes per second, but the data packets have to be processed super fast (latency matters). For example, you are in Counterstrike and you shoot a player and at that moment the game sends the data packet which tells the server that you made a shot, but between your computer and the router or cable modem or whatever is at the other end, the packet gets corrupted, so your computer has to retransmit the data packet. Because of this, instead of taking 10ms for your data packet to reach the game server, it may take 20ms for your data packet to reach the server. (i'm exaggerating of course but you get the idea)

Such "packet loss" or corruption is more noticeable for VoIP or for example when talking to people using Skype or other programs ... corrupted packets can cause delays in reception or glitches.

 

For downloads, the network card basically receives a stream of data packets and every once in a while, it says to the other computer "ok i got so this many packets of data and all were correct, keep going" , or it may say "hey man, i received so many packets of data but packet number 5 was bad so send it again" ... and the network card on the other end has to pause that stream of packets to insert packet number 5 in the queue at the beginning and then resume

 

Those interruptions in the flux of packets is what can lower the maximum speeds of downloads... you could download at 90 mbps or 11 MB/s but a single packet of let's say 4 KB of information could arrive corrupted due to the some bit being degraded in your network cable, and that can be enough to slow down the average download speed. 

 

The quality of the cable can also influence anything that uses UDP instead of regular TCP/IP ... UDP is a more lightweight communication protocol, which drops error correction and other protections for simplicity.. lots of applications use UDP .. multiplayer games, torrent clients use UDP to talk to trackers, and so on..

It's highly unlikely but some packets arriving through UDP may be corrupted and your computer wouldn't know because UDP doesn't corrent

 

I have done this test multiple times. And with different amount of bytes.

This test was 32 bytes 100 times and here are the results...so I think I'm good...

IMG_20170719_111148.jpg

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