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13th Doctor is a Female!

asim1999

It has been revealed that the the thriteenth Doctor will be played by Jodie Whittaker

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40624288

 

Your thoughts?

i think that it is a good idea but at the wrong time

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1 minute ago, asim1999 said:

Your thoughts?

 

I was like WTF is this guy talking about. 13th doctor what?

 

I don't care about the show as I have never watched it.

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11 minutes ago, asim1999 said:

i think that it is a good idea but at the wrong time

Why is it the wrong time? Personally I'm a fan of the idea because she was good in Broadchurch and the new Showrunner wrote that show so they'll be used to working together (although I'm mostly glad that Moffat is finally gone, good riddance and hopefully he'll not be back anytime soon).

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Hmmm, is there going to be an explanation for how the Doctor switched gender?

I know that each Doctor is a reformed body.  So, how does the gender switch play into that?

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1 hour ago, asim1999 said:

It has been revealed that the the thriteenth Doctor will be played by Jodie Whittaker

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40624288

 

Your thoughts?

i think that it is a good idea but at the wrong time

When is a good time, exactly?

 

Not that you meant anything bad by it, but there is a pre-existing notion that having a woman take over a traditionally male role somehow requires a perfect set of conditions before it's acceptable.  Enough men have to be comfortable with the idea (though they'll never say what "enough" is).  The story has to be set up perfectly.  Saturn has to be in alignment with Venus while Mercury is in retrograde.  You get the idea!

 

The truth is that you sometimes just have to take action, ideal circumstances be damned.  I'd rather have a woman Doctor now than keep wondering whether we'll see one two years later or 20 years later.  The gender balance doesn't have to be perfect from here on out, but I'm glad they've at least opened the door to someone other than a white male.

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1 hour ago, Commodus said:

When is a good time, exactly?

 

Not that you meant anything bad by it, but there is a pre-existing notion that having a woman take over a traditionally male role somehow requires a perfect set of conditions before it's acceptable.  Enough men have to be comfortable with the idea (though they'll never say what "enough" is).  The story has to be set up perfectly.  Saturn has to be in alignment with Venus while Mercury is in retrograde.  You get the idea!

 

The truth is that you sometimes just have to take action, ideal circumstances be damned.  I'd rather have a woman Doctor now than keep wondering whether we'll see one two years later or 20 years later.  The gender balance doesn't have to be perfect from here on out, but I'm glad they've at least opened the door to someone other than a white male.

Here's what the outraged feminists about things like ghostbusters need to understand - nerds don't care as long as these conditions are met-

-The change isn't made specifically because of gender. 

-Stay away from drastic changes to existing characters

-Is the change good or made with respect for the content in mind? Or was it shoehorned in for the sake of change or even to 'improve' by retcon? (this applies to anything really, not just gender/race changes)

 

Seriously during that whole ghostbusters shit when the trailer was downvoted into oblivion, the like/dislike ratio for the new star wars was very good. The trailer looked good and like it wasn't pissing all over the fans. It was also done for the sake of gender "let's make it an all female cast", all while looking like a piss poor reboot. It would have gotten hate with a male cast, but without the people defending it and more importantly calling anyone who disliked it "misogynists", suddenly this change makes it free from deserved criticism. 

With star wars, the fans didn't get the impression that "IT'S STAR WARS BUT WITH GIRLS", and didn't feel like it was about to take a dump on their favorite movies from the childhood. (George Lucas did that already with the prequels.) In fact I didn't hear any disappointment about Rey until after the screening, and it was more about the move itself- ie her using the force suddenly with no training.  

 

In the case of doctor who, a show I seriously dislike the fanbase of, the doctor rotates so it doesn't seem like a drastic change for the sake of change. What will happen though is if the new doctor/season displeases that fanbase (that horrible fanbase), 'news' sites like vice and shit will treat them like 'angry gamergaters' and you know the whole spiel, because clearly they can't accept a female main character, not because any fault of the content being bad or anything. Then they'll cherrypick actual misonginist comments and paint the whole fanbases's disappointment with them

 

It's a self feeding outrage machine really, I feel like they do it on purpose in some cases. It certainly feels like Ghostbusters was a stunt that shit on the fans, and I don't even like the originals in the first place.  I think you're right that you just have to rip the bandage off and you don't have to wait until the 'perfect' moment, but I think it's more about how it's broadcast to the fans. Is it them coming out ahead of the outrage and preaching to the fans- "the new character is female, get over it, and if you don't like her you are a misogynist" or "here's our new character". Coming ahead and not making a big deal about it really does a lot in terms of simply treating the fans like they can handle it. Unfortunately this is only partly the studio/creators in cases like this, it's usually part up to who shit sites like vice take the news as well as general social media users. 

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It maybe seems a bit funny the new writer seemingly had a huge influence in the pick for the doctor, but that's really got nothing to do with being a woman.

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I don't care. It will appease the cancer fanbase, especially the Tumblrites who watch the show, and will most likely flop, just like the show is beginning to do. After all, the show is getting less and less popular with each series. IF the BBC decide to push "MUH DIVERSITY" and don't put any effort into the writing of the new Doctor, it will kill off the show. And honestly, it wouldn't surprise me, it's the BBC after all. 

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i was kinda hoping the ginger part would be next, but oh well, i'll give her a chance.

Nothing to see here, move along

 

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1 hour ago, Syntaxvgm said:

Here's what the outraged feminists about things like ghostbusters need to understand - nerds don't care as long as these conditions are met-

-The change isn't made specifically because of gender. 

-Stay away from drastic changes to existing characters

-Is the change good or made with respect for the content in mind? Or was it shoehorned in for the sake of change or even to 'improve' by retcon? (this applies to anything really, not just gender/race changes)

 

Seriously during that whole ghostbusters shit when the trailer was downvoted into oblivion, the like/dislike ratio for the new star wars was very good. The trailer looked good and like it wasn't pissing all over the fans. It was also done for the sake of gender "let's make it an all female cast", all while looking like a piss poor reboot. It would have gotten hate with a male cast, but without the people defending it and more importantly calling anyone who disliked it "misogynists", suddenly this change makes it free from deserved criticism. 

With star wars, the fans didn't get the impression that "IT'S STAR WARS BUT WITH GIRLS", and didn't feel like it was about to take a dump on their favorite movies from the childhood. (George Lucas did that already with the prequels.) In fact I didn't hear any disappointment about Rey until after the screening, and it was more about the move itself- ie her using the force suddenly with no training.  

 

In the case of doctor who, a show I seriously dislike the fanbase of, the doctor rotates so it doesn't seem like a drastic change for the sake of change. What will happen though is if the new doctor/season displeases that fanbase (that horrible fanbase), 'news' sites like vice and shit will treat them like 'angry gamergaters' and you know the whole spiel, because clearly they can't accept a female main character, not because any fault of the content being bad or anything. Then they'll cherrypick actual misonginist comments and paint the whole fanbases's disappointment with them

 

It's a self feeding outrage machine really, I feel like they do it on purpose in some cases. It certainly feels like Ghostbusters was a stunt that shit on the fans, and I don't even like the originals in the first place.  I think you're right that you just have to rip the bandage off and you don't have to wait until the 'perfect' moment, but I think it's more about how it's broadcast to the fans. Is it them coming out ahead of the outrage and preaching to the fans- "the new character is female, get over it, and if you don't like her you are a misogynist" or "here's our new character". Coming ahead and not making a big deal about it really does a lot in terms of simply treating the fans like they can handle it. Unfortunately this is only partly the studio/creators in cases like this, it's usually part up to who shit sites like vice take the news as well as general social media users. 

See, I don't think it's necessarily a problem to change gender for its own sake -- so long as that's not the only thing you're leaning on.  I actually don't believe the new Ghostbusters relied only on that, and I generally liked it because I'm a fan of Paul Feig's approach to dialogue (see Spy for an example) and characterizations.  Some of the criticism was legitimate, but there were definitely plenty of "how dare you replace my favourite characters with... with... women!" outbursts.  And the funny thing is that you're kinda right about The Force Awakens, but it's also clear that Rey exists to provide a role model for women in the Star Wars universe (see: her swatting away Finn's attempts to hand-hold her while they're running for their lives).

 

The issue, I think, is that a lot of male fantasy/sci-fi fans are more likely to treat character gender as a sacred cow than women.  Where women are used to being limited to sidekicks and love interests, men are the stars most of the time.  They're so used to seeing themselves represented on screen that they expect it, and it's a shock when they're not.

 

And while there's certainly the risk of overstating the sexist outrage versus critical outrage, I'd say the problem is simply that the sexist outrage exists in any significant volume in the first place.  I'm not going to knock outlets like Vice for pointing out that it exists so long as they don't mischaracterize the scale of that indignation.  After all, one of the points of news is to shine a light on the dark corners of humanity, and that includes sexism among TV viewers.

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1 hour ago, Ithanul said:

Hmmm, is there going to be an explanation for how the Doctor switched gender?

I know that each Doctor is a reformed body.  So, how does the gender switch play into that?

gender switch is just something that can happen, as they are not humans but humanoids from Gallifrey. There was an episode in season 10 where the Doctor explained to Bill Potts the gender stuff, including, if I remember correctly, that all Time Lords can change gender with regeneration and that it is just a normal thing (as can be seen with the Master/Missy)

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20 minutes ago, Commodus said:

See, I don't think it's necessarily a problem to change gender for its own sake -- so long as that's not the only thing you're leaning on.  I actually don't think the new Ghostbusters relied only on that, and I generally liked it because I'm a fan of Paul Feig's approach to dialogue (see Spy for an example) and the characterizations.  Some of the criticism was legitimate, but there were definitely plenty of "how dare you replace my favourite characters with... with... women!" outbursts.  And the funny thing is that you're kinda right about The Force Awakens, but it's also clear that Rey exists to provide a role model for women in the Star Wars universe (see: her swatting away Finn's attempts to hand-hold her while they're running for their lives).

 

The issue, I think, is that a lot of male fantasy/sci-fi fans are more likely to treat character gender as a sacred cow than women.  Where women are used to being limited to sidekicks and love interests, men are the stars most of the time.  They're so used to seeing themselves represented on screen that they expect it, and it's a shock when they're not.

 

And while there's certainly the risk of overstating the sexist outrage versus critical outrage, I'd say the problem is simply that the sexist outrage exists in any significant volume in the first place.  I'm not going to knock outlets like Vice for pointing out that it exists so long as they don't mischaracterize the scale of that indignation.  After all, one of the points of news is to shine a light on the dark corners of humanity, and that includes sexism among TV viewers.

I really think the media like vice takes a minority and gives them a voice, as well as sympathizers. Fans don't like to be morally preached to, and they jump to defense of these things. The outrage over ghostbusters was far bigger than their actual fanbase. 

 

And I just remembered with Star Wars, I think even those who normally hate something because it features a female in their favorite thing were like "Well a black man and a woman, they're making this all diverse for the sake of it. Still can't be worse than the prequels. I'll give it a chance." And they did and liked it. 

Also I agree the role model hting is big with star wars, it spans many generations with its fans, and many fans have kids, even grandkids that like it. I think people that liked it as a kid are happy that their daughters can relate more, maybe dress as Rey for Halloween or something. Parents love sharing interest with their kids, and it pushes merchandise. I kid you not, I think this might have a large part to do with why Finn fought Kylo Ren (specifically with the lightsaber). This movie may be the reintroduciton to a new generation of kids, and having a male character as well is big for more kids buying toy lightsabers and stuff. They want to be Finn or Rey, and Finn serves the role for boys who want to be 'boys' and same with Rey. And Finn is really the first black star wars character. It normally wouldn't matter much but with kids, it's so much easier to imagine themselves as a character they kinda look like, gender and race. What did you before? Lando? Mace windu? Lol kids don't want to be side characters, and they want to be the ones with the cool lightsabers and beat each other upside the head with colorful toys. So Finn used the light saber

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3 hours ago, asim1999 said:

It has been revealed that the the thriteenth Doctor will be played by Jodie Whittaker

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40624288

 

Your thoughts?

i think that it is a good idea but at the wrong time

i had fingers crossed for craig fergunson as doctor

was hoping to see a tv series of the lady companions on the resteraunt tardis(the ladies of time)

have doc and ladies have some co op episodes

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Don't give a shit.

 

I actually went back mentally to all my favorite franchises and concluded that I wouldn't give a shit if any protagonist, antagonist or cast member was reassigned gender.

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Oh look a show that was doing a mediocre job in the ratings suddenly pulls something controversial in order to get views AND if it still tanks they can blame the fans for their misogyny instead of the poor writing >.>

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2 hours ago, Commodus said:

 And the funny thing is that you're kinda right about The Force Awakens, but it's also clear that Rey exists to provide a role model for women in the Star Wars universe (see: her swatting away Finn's attempts to hand-hold her while they're running for their lives).

It's not bringing anything that Leia wasn't already providing, though.

 

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

The issue, I think, is that a lot of male fantasy/sci-fi fans are more likely to treat character gender as a sacred cow than women.  Where women are used to being limited to sidekicks and love interests, men are the stars most of the time.  They're so used to seeing themselves represented on screen that they expect it, and it's a shock when they're not.

 

And while there's certainly the risk of overstating the sexist outrage versus critical outrage, I'd say the problem is simply that the sexist outrage exists in any significant volume in the first place.  I'm not going to knock outlets like Vice for pointing out that it exists so long as they don't mischaracterize the scale of that indignation.  

I would take in one step further: I'm not going to have a take on the media coverage about something, or the media coverage about the reaction to the media coverage of something :P

I think many people engage in a sort of circular behavior, in which they burn a lot of time and energy in discussions about how something should be viewed (it applies to misogyny accusations, but also to pointless "ranks", "is this the greatest movie in history", "is this one of the top ten TV shows ever", "this album was 'too commercial'", etc). I mean, you get the thing, you like or dislike it, and that's what matter. Why would one care about what others say about it, and purposefully check media outlets to see if someone dared to disagree with me? It's like you spend 2 hours watching a movie and two years outraged at those heretics claiming the movie was racist or whatever... :P 

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2 hours ago, Seithon said:

Oh look a show that was doing a mediocre job in the ratings suddenly pulls something controversial in order to get views AND if it still tanks they can blame the fans for their misogyny instead of the poor writing >.>

Because Doctor Who most certainly does not have a history of 'killing' The Doctor and having him 'Regenerate' by replacing the actor to 'mix thing's up'.  And they most certainly haven't done that twelve freaking times already.

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13 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

It's not bringing anything that Leia wasn't already providing, though.

Ah, but it is!  Leia was always a central character, but she was never going to be a Jedi (being Force-aware isn't the same thing).  Now, there's a whole legion of girls that realize it's okay for them to wield a lightsaber.  To tie it back to Doctor Who: in both cases, it's about telling women that they can be the hero of the story, with all the cool powers.

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As usual i've never heard of the person who is going to be the next doctor; so i will take it as i did with all previous iterations.

 

That being said i am curious if they will start having more male companions than female now.

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Whittaker, 35, said it was "overwhelming, as a feminist" to become the next Doctor.

Oh sod off.

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You know what? I don't mind the gender/ethnicity of the actor/actress.

 

What really pisses me off though is when some Feminazi points out the doctor has always been a white male and that the next one NEEDS to be a woman. NO IT DOESN'T. When you force "equality" like this you end up with crap like the ghostbusters remake, feminists are you proud of that 1?? Open the role to everyone and hire the best actor that applies regardless of race/gender and hey if that's a white man then better luck next time. IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD CAST A NON WHITE MALE BY DEFAULT.

 

Ofc I like the show and i'll still watch to give her a chance but I just have a feeling it will be shit because forced "equality" like this always is.

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1 minute ago, tom_w141 said:

You know what? I don't mind the gender/ethnicity of the actor/actress.

 

What really pisses me off though is when some Feminazi points out the doctor has always been a white male and that the next one NEEDS to be a woman. NO IT DOESN'T. When you force "equality" like this you end up with crap like the ghostbusters remake, feminists are you proud of that 1??

Yeah, uhh, it's not 'forced equality' when you've done the same thing the last 12 times and this time you're like 'let's mix it up.  If every Tuesday is Taco Tuesday and one Tuesday you're like 'Screw it, let's pick something that totally isn't taco's this Tuesday' you're not 'forcing diversity in meal options' you're just tired of doing Tacos every week.

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2 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Yeah, uhh, it's not 'forced equality' when you've done the same thing the last 12 times and this time you're like 'let's mix it up.  If every Tuesday is Taco Tuesday and one Tuesday you're like 'Screw it, let's pick something that totally isn't taco's this Tuesday' you're not 'forcing diversity in meal options' you're just tired of doing Tacos every week.

You've missed the point. I don't mind at all as long as they are the best for the role. It is forced because this year they went in with the mindset that it MUST be a woman. Therefore they automatically discounted ALL male applicants even if they were better. Which is a recipe for shit.

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2 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

You've missed the point. I don't mind at all as long as they are the best for the role. It is forced because this year they went in with the mindset that it MUST be a woman. Therefore they automatically discounted ALL male applicants even if they were better. Which is a recipe for shit.

I think that it is adorable that you believe that television casting is based purely on merit rather than what is often a long lost of prerequisites, often including general appearance, hair color/type, body type, age, race, gender, height.  You should look at a casting sheet some day.

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