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ringo

Ryzen stutter in older games?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
15 hours ago, jdwii said:

Part of the issue i think is the 1600 is clocked low and you are running it with 2133mhz memory.  

 

I can't believe nothing higher will work not even 2666? 

 

 

Ryzen seems to perform around Sandy-Ivy in many older titles which is fine since in most cases that is still a lot of power for 60fps. 

 

 

I will try memory with new bios. When I google Morrowind - Mafia 2 - Windows 10 there is a lot links about problems with that combination. Some in Mafia 2 report also fps drops (with i7 and 980ti) si I am pretty sure that Win10 is the problem. If something would be wrong than I woulg get a constant stutter in newr titles. I will wait for new bios and new gpu, than I am going to to better testing and overclocking. Thank you for answers, regards:D

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Ryzen has lots of cores, but very poor single threaded performance. Older games were typically made only able to use one or two logical processors, and were not very thread/core aware resulting CPU bottlenecks with single thread performance. Check your CPU usage in task manager, look at the per local processor usage.

 

I ran a few tests on my Ryzen system at 3.8GHz when I got it on some older games, and was able to quite easily stress the CPU to give <10fps >200ms frame times with minimal effort. In older games, depending on the workload, low frame-rates and stutters will be normal. Overclocking the CPU on a couple of cores, and setting affinity for the game to these overclocked cores may help a little.

 

Edit: Also, similar performance was also seen on other processors I tested under the same conditions including a 3930K and 6900K.

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If u haven't updated ur bios then ur board was only meant for ryzen 7

my 1600 was fine in older games 

 


AMD (and proud) r7 1700 4ghz- 

also (1600) 

asus rog crosshairs vi hero x370-

MSI 980ti G6 1506mhz slix2 -

h110 pull - acer xb270hu 1440p -

 corsair 750D - corsair 16gb 2933

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6 hours ago, DrMikeNZ said:

Ryzen has lots of cores, but very poor single threaded performance. Older games were typically made only able to use one or two logical processors, and were not very thread/core aware resulting CPU bottlenecks with single thread performance. Check your CPU usage in task manager, look at the per local processor usage.

 

I ran a few tests on my Ryzen system at 3.8GHz when I got it on some older games, and was able to quite easily stress the CPU to give <10fps >200ms frame times with minimal effort. In older games, depending on the workload, low frame-rates and stutters will be normal. Overclocking the CPU on a couple of cores, and setting affinity for the game to these overclocked cores may help a little.

Saying Ryzen has very poor single core performance would be like saying Haswell has poor single core performance and it doesn't. 

 

On average from a IPC standpoint Ryzen is around haswell give or take 10-15%. 

 

For example Dolphin benchmark that is heavily single threaded my ryzen took 457 seconds to complete the task(at 3.9Ghz) while a 4770 at 3.5Ghz completed it 447 seconds. That would be around 13% less IPC with ryzen vs Haswell this is one of the few benchmarks that i ran that shows Intel in very good light. 

 

BTW in the same benchmark it took a 2600K at 4.5ghz 480 seconds to complete. Meaning Ryzen had 20% better IPC then sandy-bridge. 

 

I will note that Haswell got a very nice speed bump with dolphin and this is the worst case comparison from what i noticed. 

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2 minutes ago, jdwii said:

Saying Ryzen has very poor single core performance would be like saying Haswell has poor single core performance and it doesn't. 

 

On average from a IPC standpoint Ryzen is around haswell give or take 10-15%. 

 

For example Dolphin benchmark that is heavily single threaded my ryzen took 457 seconds to complete the task(at 3.9Ghz) while a 4770 at 3.5Ghz completed it 447 seconds. That would be around 13% less IPC with ryzen vs Haswell this is one of the few benchmarks that i ran that shows Intel in very good light. 

 

BTW in the same benchmark it took a 2600K at 4.5ghz 480 seconds to complete. Meaning Ryzen had 20% better IPC then sandy-bridge. 

 

I will note that Haswell got a very nice speed bump with dolphin and this is the worst case comparison from what i noticed. 

It's the same as broadwell 15 above hasswell is kaby lake lol 


AMD (and proud) r7 1700 4ghz- 

also (1600) 

asus rog crosshairs vi hero x370-

MSI 980ti G6 1506mhz slix2 -

h110 pull - acer xb270hu 1440p -

 corsair 750D - corsair 16gb 2933

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Broadwell actually is around 15% higher in rare cases IPC is not an average it varies. 

 

It's not simple to say its the same as broardwell 100% if that was true then Ryzen would do FAR better in some tests such as emulation, older games and so on. 

 

Can find many tasks that the 6900K at the same frequency would beat Ryzen on a core to core basis. ALSO can find a few tasks where ryzen wins too. 

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11 hours ago, jdwii said:

Saying Ryzen has very poor single core performance would be like saying Haswell has poor single core performance and it doesn't. 

 

On average from a IPC standpoint Ryzen is around haswell give or take 10-15%. 

 

For example Dolphin benchmark that is heavily single threaded my ryzen took 457 seconds to complete the task(at 3.9Ghz) while a 4770 at 3.5Ghz completed it 447 seconds. That would be around 13% less IPC with ryzen vs Haswell this is one of the few benchmarks that i ran that shows Intel in very good light. 

 

BTW in the same benchmark it took a 2600K at 4.5ghz 480 seconds to complete. Meaning Ryzen had 20% better IPC then sandy-bridge. 

 

I will note that Haswell got a very nice speed bump with dolphin and this is the worst case comparison from what i noticed. 

Yeah, what I said RE Ryzen was pretty dumb, and wasn't really the intention of the post. I really need to get some sleep before I post too much more stupid.

The same low FPS and stuttering in older poorly threaded games is observable on Intel CPU's as well, moreso on the HEDT processors which typically have lower clock speeds.

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Exactly man most say ivy-sandy is good enough for gaming and at Ryzen's worst it competes with a high clock sandy-ivy 2600K at its best its a little behind a 7700K or about even. 

 

On average of course somewhere between. Also i'm a big person in the technical aspects of things in terms of CPU architecture and i enjoy comparing architectures. Something we haven't actually seen on reviews back in the early 2000's throughout the decade we always got IPC comparisons on every single benchmark and piece of software now reviewers don't do it. 

 

It's sad to hear as it seems like professional reviews have gotten less informative still have yet to see from Tomshardware-Anandtech and so on a direct IPC full in depth comparison between Ryzen and sandy-ivy-Haswell-skylake and kaby as well as PD and Phenom II. 

 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP

So everything is ok with my Ryzen? Can I run any more test just to be sure? Cinebench or something?

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16 hours ago, ringo said:

So everything is ok with my Ryzen? Can I run any more test just to be sure? Cinebench or something?

The fact that your system passed the memtest for that long proves your hardware is fine.

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I haven't had any issues in old games on my Ryzen rig, even as far back as DOS games. (Morrowind is also one of the games I frequently play. It's a classic and never seems to get old.)

 

That reminds me; way back in the day I ended up buying Morrowind for Xbox after upgrading to a Core 2 Duo laptop, up from my laptop sporting an ancient AMD Turion64 ML-30, which was a 1.6 GHz single core CPU. Morrowind seemed to stutter more on the Core 2 Duo, so I just grabbed it for Xbox and kept playing.

 

But that shouldn't have any bearing on Ryzen. It runs fine for me, and just to be sure I ran it right now while my friends and I are in a PUBG game running in the background (I died, so I'm just sitting here doing nothing). Even with PUBG in the background, it was still smooth.


Current Build:

CPU: i7-8700K @4.7 GHz/1.25v (all cores)

GPU: GTX 1070 FE

RAM: 2x8GB G.Skill Ripjaws V DDR4 @3200 MHz

Mobo: Asus Prime Z370-A

CPU Cooler: Hyper 212 Evo

PSU: EVGA 650 Watt G2 Supernova

Case: NZXT S340 Elite

 

Current Laptop:

Model: HP Envy X360 13

CPU: Ryzen 7 2700U

GPU: Radeon Vega 10 (Integrated)

RAM: 8GB 2400 MHz, dual channel

 

Old PC:

CPU: Intel i7 980X @4.0 GHz/1.34v

RAM: 3x4GB DDR3 @1333 MHz

Mobo: Some old x58 board

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I can recommend a program for all on Ryzen as well as FX its called process lasso. 

 

I'm currently using it and i get a small boost on ryzen with older games i set it to use cores 1-3-5-7 on my 1700. This forces older games to stay on 1 CCX and keep off of SMT. 

 

Lot of older games use 2-3 cores at most and back then they were more latency bound vs today especially directx9 and before i also use this for Dolphin and PS2 emulator. 

 

Also on FX CPU's performance can go up pretty darn nicely up to 10% i used to use this on my 8350 all the time before switching to haswell for awhile. Might make a post about it myself for users to test. FX CPU's have a module penalty that can affect performance by up to 25% forcing older titles that only use 4 cores heavily to 1-3-5-7 in process lasso will improve performance. 

 

Of course in games in the last 3-5 years this really doesn't matter this is more Xbox 360 days and before. 

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19 minutes ago, Emberstone said:

I haven't had any issues in old games on my Ryzen rig, even as far back as DOS games. (Morrowind is also one of the games I frequently play. It's a classic and never seems to get old.)

 

That reminds me; way back in the day I ended up buying Morrowind for Xbox after upgrading to a Core 2 Duo laptop, up from my laptop sporting an ancient AMD Turion64 ML-30, which was a 1.6 GHz single core CPU. Morrowind seemed to stutter more on the Core 2 Duo, so I just grabbed it for Xbox and kept playing.

 

But that shouldn't have any bearing on Ryzen. It runs fine for me, and just to be sure I ran it right now while my friends and I are in a PUBG game running in the background (I died, so I'm just sitting here doing nothing). Even with PUBG in the background, it was still smooth.

 

I have to say i own a high-end GPU so i can't compare how these do on weaker GPU's one day i'd like to test a wide range of hardware but funds stop me. Anyways Ryzen 1700 when i first got it was skipping in some games until i got my memory stable at 2933(now at 3066). Once my memory got stable my gaming stopped skipping at stock. After Amd published a memory tweaking guide i think i might try a few things myself like disabling geardown mode and turning off bankgroup swap while also trying to tighten up timings a bit at 3066. 

 

Memory tuning is more complex and therefor fun for me to do then overclocking boring Ryzen. 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 hours ago, jdwii said:

I can recommend a program for all on Ryzen as well as FX its called process lasso

 

I'm currently using it and i get a small boost on ryzen with older games i set it to use cores 1-3-5-7 on my 1700. This forces older games to stay on 1 CCX and keep off of SMT. 

 

Lot of older games use 2-3 cores at most and back then they were more latency bound vs today especially directx9 and before i also use this for Dolphin and PS2 emulator. 

 

Also on FX CPU's performance can go up pretty darn nicely up to 10% i used to use this on my 8350 all the time before switching to haswell for awhile. Might make a post about it myself for users to test. FX CPU's have a module penalty that can affect performance by up to 25% forcing older titles that only use 4 cores heavily to 1-3-5-7 in process lasso will improve performance. 

 

Of course in games in the last 3-5 years this really doesn't matter this is more Xbox 360 days and before. 

I tryed that with Morrowind but no difference. Also I installed OpenNW mode for morrowind (optimization for modern pc) but I get stutter even with that mod, slightly less stutter than original Morrowind. I guess it is because Win10. Any recommendation for older games so I can verify that I don`t have stutter, that is Windows related problem?

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It could always be a W10 issue try seeing if game mode is messing up Linus showed that it actually did nothing to help performance and it even hurt performance sometimes. 

 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
13 hours ago, jdwii said:

It could always be a W10 issue try seeing if game mode is messing up Linus showed that it actually did nothing to help performance and it even hurt performance sometimes. 

 

 

Game mode is disabled. For the last test can you verfiy me that it this stress test everything is ok?

 

http://imgur.com/a/SKzUA

 

I don`t know why HWinfo is reporting that cores are on 3,692mhz max? R5 1600 is on stock.

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2 hours ago, ringo said:

I don`t know why HWinfo is reporting that cores are on 3,692mhz max? R5 1600 is on stock.

That is normal, the turbo boost raises individual cores to higher clocks when 1-2 cores are active and the others are not being used.

That is just showing that at some point the cores were each pushed to that clock.

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
18 minutes ago, Strike105X said:

@ringo Did you try the tool i posted to see if there's any intel code to remove?

I think I will wait for a new gpu to continiue the testing. I don`t like to mess with that code. Thanky anyway:)

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22 hours ago, ringo said:

Game mode is disabled. For the last test can you verfiy me that it this stress test everything is ok?

 

http://imgur.com/a/SKzUA

 

I don`t know why HWinfo is reporting that cores are on 3,692mhz max? R5 1600 is on stock.

Yeah man your hardware is fine don't worry about that i think its a W10 issue or possibly just a game that needs higher single core performance. 

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18 hours ago, ringo said:

I think I will wait for a new gpu to continiue the testing. I don`t like to mess with that code. Thanky anyway:)

All it does is analyze and remove a specific type of code, and its not like you can't make a copy of the exe, but suit yourself.

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