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Vega FE Hybrid Mod - Passing the 1080 but 400W+ Power Draw

Hunter259
49 minutes ago, potoooooooo said:

If it were that easy, surely they would have done it.

 

Designing chips isn't as easy as changing some sliders and letting the autorouter plug away.

They've been at this longer than NVIDIA. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are shaking up the market, but this card should not be taking that much power for its performance when compared to to the 1080

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Maybe AMD should just stick to CPUs

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6 minutes ago, Chaos_Sorcerer said:

Maybe AMD should just stick to CPUs

Nah they just need a better run with more R+D budget.   They are trying to develop CPU's and GPU's from a year behind with a current R+D budget of $266M while nvidia and Intel have $411M and $3.3B respectively.   Keeping in mind nvidia aren't trying to compete in the CPU market. 

 

you can't make something great without resources. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Just now, mr moose said:

Nah they just need a better run with more R+D budget.   They are trying to develop CPU's and GPU's from a year behind with a current R+D budget of $266M while nvidia and Intel have $411M and $3.3B respectively.   Keeping in mind nvidia aren't trying to compete in the CPU market. 

 

you can't make something great without resources. 

My point exactly. I don't know if a single company with a lower budget can really keep up with two players who each have more money to work with. 

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AMD has been taking notes from intel

ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 hours ago, Sierra Fox said:

They've been at this longer than NVIDIA. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they are shaking up the market, but this card should not be taking that much power for its performance when compared to to the 1080

Why shouldn't it be? like i said, they can't exactly just do a dance and have power draw come down. You can't just will efficiency into existing.

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14 minutes ago, Chaos_Sorcerer said:

My point exactly. I don't know if a single company with a lower budget can really keep up with two players who each have more money to work with. 

I just want them to be successful with both.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Just now, mr moose said:

I just want them to be successful with both.

Same. I just don't know if that's gonna happen. 

 

Now, what if they hadn't bought ATI?

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Just now, Chaos_Sorcerer said:

Same. I just don't know if that's gonna happen. 

 

Now, what if they hadn't bought ATI?

 

If they didn't buy ATI? who knows. Not me that's for sure.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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That's probably pretty close to how the actual gaming card will perform, hope they have some amazing drivers.....

 

http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-vega-xtx-vega-xt-vega-xl-variants-confirmed-add-board-partners-custom-rx-vegas-ready-mass-production-late-august/

 

 

Quote

Vega XTX will be a water cooled GPU with 375W of Thermal Board Power while as the GPU itself draws around 300W. The water cooler implies a very fast clock rate which means that we just might be looking at clock rates near or above the 1700-1800 MHz mark. This is something that is also implied by the TDP rating of this particular chip.

 

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6 hours ago, Hunter259 said:

It's great to see the card performing so much better when it is able to keep it's clocks high but sweet lord does this thing pull a fuckton of power and this is without PCIE power draw testing.

Can't tell if you are being serious. Performance is measured as FPS per Watt. It's bad to increase FPS if It means increasing watts because that is easily achieved by adding extra transistors to the die. The problem is this makes the die larger which means it's more expensive to manufacture. 

 

When we compare Vega to the Pascal, Vega uses more watts, has a larger die size and gives less FPS. That's complete fail. This card is targeted to fanboys that want AMD branding. To truly compete with Nvidia, AMD needs to completely redevelop their architecture.

 

Maxwell put AMD's GPUs in the same position Sandy Bridge put their CPUs. They are in a very bad position right now. 

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About power consumption:

 

They're using a clamp meter to measure the 12v current going into the card through pci-e connectors. The clamp meter is accurate enough, i'd say less than 1% precision so we can ignore that.

Besides that ~ 34A of current going into the card, you have also the ~ 60w coming in the card through the pci-e slot.

 

For simplicity let's assume the card's main chip is powered strictly from pci-e connectors, and let's just say the memory and some auxiliary stuff is powered from slot.

 

The board uses a 12 phase VRM to power the core with power.  So even with 400w from the pci-e connectors, you'd have a few watts per phase lost as heat in the vrm

 

The guy says in the video that the VRM got up to around 65c with some small heatsink on it, so that would suggest at maybe 5-10 degrees C over ambient per w , that each phase wastes about 4-6 watts as heat.  So you have 400w from pci-e going in, you have around 350w going into the gpu chip

 

That estimation seems to be confirmed in the video below

 

 

You can see ... 6 phase vrm with phase doublers to get 12 phases...   go to 8:30 ... at 1.2v output, the vrm can do 200A (240w into the chip) and generate 23 watts of heat, and at 300A (360w into the chip)  it will generate around 43w of heat

 

So if you spread those 43 watts over the 12 phases you have less than 4 watts of heat per phase. That's nothing for those mosfets. So basically with 400w coming into the video card from the pci-e connectors, only around 360 watts actually reach the gpu chip. That's a 90% efficiency, which is not bad for a 12 phase vrm. 

 

My guess is that the RX Vega gaming cards will have a cheaper VRM, maybe with maximum 8 phases.

 

 

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5 hours ago, mr moose said:

Nah they just need a better run with more R+D budget.   They are trying to develop CPU's and GPU's from a year behind with a current R+D budget of $266M while nvidia and Intel have $411M and $3.3B respectively.   Keeping in mind nvidia aren't trying to compete in the CPU market. 

 

you can't make something great without resources. 

AMD's actual issue with GCN is that it's really more of an iGPU being stretched to a high-end Desktop device. It's why the lower SKUs have generally been better. If you split the Graphics Market into segments: Intel is "king" of the on-CPU/just works market; AMD has the best iGPUs and low-tier dGPUs; Nvidia wins, hard, in the mid to high-end dGPUs + HPC scenarios. The problem is that the market for AMD simply is more a volume sales with lower margin. 

 

This is why "Infinite Fabric is Life" should probably be AMD's new motto. It's also probably why Vega runs pretty thirsty. Infinite Fabric costs a bit of power and that simply be showing up. If there is enough IF in the Vega GPU, we could see opaque 2x GPU cards before Navi launches, though at the HPC market rather than gaming. The big change for AMD comes with Navi, which should be H1`2019.

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Why doesn't Linus do something like this? Pretty disappointed at the 'usual' tech channels' coverage of the Vega FE. If you only make reviews of the stuff manufacturers send to you, you lose your position as an independant journalist.

 

Gamer's Nexus is the hero we need, apparently.  

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10 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Performance makes more sense now, but 400W power draw is A LOT! :o

PCGamesHardware.de found the Vega is disgustingly overvolted as well. 1600Mhz at 1.075v is possible, down from 1.2V.

 

Why does AMD do this? Silly bastards.

 

If AMD actually volt their RX cards correctly, they'll actually keep a proper 225-250W TDP as their original slides showed.

Then let the XTX take all the power it wants since it's on Water.
 

Quote

An example from our measurements: If the card is 1.440 MHz at 1.1 volts, we measure a current between 10.5 and 11 amps on the 12-volt supply cables depending on the load. If the clock falls to 1,348 MHz at 1.05 volts, the currents fall to 8 to 8.5 amperes. In other words, between the two clock stages, up to (circa!) 50 watts of power consumption.

 


 Meanwhile, we have been dealing with the Undervolting of the Frontier Edition for a few hours and can tell a lot of good things. After the card had already completed all 1.600 MHz game tests at only 1.1 instead of 1.2 volts (see benchmark section of this article), we have further reduced the voltage test by way of test. With 1,075 Volt via Wattman, our retail store is still rockstable, all game benchmarks run smoothly and without graphics errors at 1,600 MHz. The power consumption of the entire PC is at the same level as the factory setting, although we have set the power limit to +50 percent. The latter ensures that the Radeon Vega Frontier Edition does not slow down temporarily, it should run into the power limit. We also allow the card to have a higher fan speed. With 1,060 Millivolt (whether this voltage is set 1: 1 or directly to 1,050 Millivolt, we do not know yet) came to the first crash.

 

 

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Vega-Codename-265481/Tests/Benchmark-Preis-Release-AMD-Radeon-Frontier-Edition-1232684/2/#a3

5950X | NH D15S | 64GB 3200Mhz | RTX 3090 | ASUS PG348Q+MG278Q

 

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23 minutes ago, rasmuskrj said:

Why doesn't Linus do something like this? Pretty disappointed at the 'usual' tech channels' coverage of the Vega FE. If you only make reviews of the stuff manufacturers send to you, you lose your position as an independant journalist.

 

Gamer's Nexus is the hero we need, apparently.  

Everyone who has reviewed this has had to buy it, Linus has said his in in the mail. expect a review soon. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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6 hours ago, Chaos_Sorcerer said:

Maybe AMD should just stick to CPUs

 

6 hours ago, mr moose said:

Nah they just need a better run with more R+D budget.   They are trying to develop CPU's and GPU's from a year behind with a current R+D budget of $266M while nvidia and Intel have $411M and $3.3B respectively.   Keeping in mind nvidia aren't trying to compete in the CPU market. 

 

you can't make something great without resources. 

Totally agree here, i feel like AMD have done well considering this budget, to cover two whole sections of the component market and still produce some of the best processors around. Who cares if they dont produce the next 1080ti with vega. As long as they are still relevant in the mid to low tier they still do their job

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6 hours ago, potoooooooo said:

Why shouldn't it be? like i said, they can't exactly just do a dance and have power draw come down. You can't just will efficiency into existing.

 Because there is tiled based rasterizer  in the silicon they can probably reduce the power with a dance in the drivers/firmware

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36 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

PCGamesHardware.de found the Vega is disgustingly overvolted as well. 1600Mhz at 1.075v is possible, down from 1.2V.

 

Why does AMD do this? Silly bastards

 

to get great yields and not have to throw away the few crappy dies which will not do 1600Mhz @ 1.075v

In short they do not want to waste money.

 

but yes it makes the majority good quality dies suck more power than they actually need.

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Why people say gcn is a igpu? Is it because it divides the screen in 4 quarters (now 8) for rendering? 

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56 minutes ago, rasmuskrj said:

Why doesn't Linus do something like this? Pretty disappointed at the 'usual' tech channels' coverage of the Vega FE. If you only make reviews of the stuff manufacturers send to you, you lose your position as an independant journalist.

 

Gamer's Nexus is the hero we need, apparently.  

LinustechTips GPU reviews aren't anything special anyway. Guys like pcper and gamersnexus and others do a lot more homework and provide a lot more detailed analysis.

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2 minutes ago, Humbug said:

to get great yields and not have to throw away the few crappy dies which will not do 1600Mhz @ 1.075v

In short they do not want to waste money.

 

but yes it makes the majority good quality dies suck more power than they actually need.

I still think that is one of there biggest problems that need fixing fast as it makes there Gpus look worse than they are. 

Better bining would help a lot

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I have radiators in my home that use less power lol. Don't think Il be able to get Vega into Northern Bee though because of my 650W psu.. 

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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