Help: X299 vs AM4 2 years down the road.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, Atra1n2 said:

It's been mentioned by several YouTubers and others in the Tech world that Ryzen CPUs benefit greatly from faster RAM.

Reread what I said then and before then, both platforms benefit from higher bandwidth RAM. Most benches done with Ryzen are done with OC'd RAM because they recognize that it speeds everything up.

[done12many2]

13 minutes ago, Atra1n2 said:

You're right. Core count is irrelevant if your single-threaded performance is no good, especially considering that today's triple A games only utilize 4 cores at most.

 

We're all of a sudden supposed to believe that everything is effectively coded for high core count CPUs and that's so far from the truth it's not even funny.  Buy a chip that has both high single and multi-threaded performance and you don't have to worry about it.

[Damascus]

3 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

4.9 GHz at 1.255v.  Trust me, Skylake-X is fast.  I don't care what clickbait YouTubers are trying to say about it.  

I have not once said anything about X299 but that it is a hot chipset.

 

Also, do you think der8auer and gamers nexus are clickbait?  GN shares literally everything they do, they are consistently fair and unbiased.

 

Also, please run a p95 test for a couple hours so we can see temps.

 

 

[done12many2]

 

6 minutes ago, Damascus said:

I have not once said anything about X299 but that it is a hot chipset.

 

Also, do you think der8auer and gamers nexus are clickbait?  GN shares literally everything they do, they are consistently fair and unbiased.

 

Also, please run a p95 test for a couple hours so we can see temps.

 

I haven't used Prime95 in years and don't plan on it because you're trying to prove a point about something you stated.

 

Besides that, if you run Prime95 with AVX on a Ryzen chip, it will not get hot because Ryzen doesn't effectively use AVX.  You're kinda asking me to do something that your Ryzen CPU can't even do.  

 

How about I run RealBench with 10 cores at whatever max clockspeed that your 8 core Ryzen 1700 is capable of?  It would still be harder with a 10 core, right?

 

As a matter of fact, we can both run it for 30 minutes at the same clockspeed and see who returns more hashes at better temps?

[Drak3]

For what you can get now, the 7800X, unless you really benefit from having 8 cores (excluding AVX programs. Things like Adobe's program suite, Handbrake, H265 encoding), you'll be better served with the higher potential single core perfomance and additional PCIe lanes from the chipset (should the mainboard manufacturer not suck a dick at implementing them).

 

Also look at X99 chips like the 5930K, if they're going for a similar price where you live. They're still great chips, and there are hexacore options with lots of PCIe expansion capability if that tickles your pickle.

[VagabondWraith]

12 minutes ago, Damascus said:

OK,  you are running a 4.6ghz oc.  That answers one question, not exactly helping on temps while running a stress test or whether it's delidded. 

 

 

It's actually 4.8 but HWInfo isn't reading clocks correctly. The 2nd score (2012) is at 4.7. No it's not delidded nor will I ever. Those were quick and dirty runs. I run 4.4 daily at 1.15v.

[done12many2]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Also look at X99 chips like the 5930K, if they're going for a similar price where you live. They're still great chips, and there are hexacore options with lots of PCIe expansion capability if that tickles your pickle.

 

I'd definitely give consideration to a x99 option with the ability to upgrade to a 6950x.  Especially considering that used prices are dropping substantially on them!

[Drak3]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

I'd definitely give consideration to a x99 option with the ability to upgrade to a 6950x.  Especially considering that used prices are dropping substantially on them!

While certainly an upgrade option for 10C. I'd only consider Haswell-E for the hexa and octocores, since they clock a good deal better and IPC difference is like 1-3%, best case scenarios.

[VagabondWraith]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

I'd definitely give consideration to a x99 option with the ability to upgrade to a 6950x.  Especially considering that used prices are dropping substantially on them!

I agree. X99 is still very viable and will be for years to come. Although the OP wants upgradeability which X299 will be best.

[Damascus]

5 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

 

I haven't used Prime95 in years and don't plan on it because you're trying to prove a point about something you stated.

 

Besides that, if you run Prime95 with AVX on a Ryzen chip, it will not get hot because Ryzen doesn't effectively use AVX.  You're kinda asking me to do something that your Ryzen CPU can't even do.  

 

How about I run RealBench with 10 cores at whatever max clockspeed that your 8 core Ryzen 1700 is capable of?  It would still be harder with a 10 core, right?

 

As a matter of fact, we can both run it for 30 minutes at the same clockspeed and see who returns more hashes at better temps?

First off I use p95, max heat option  and I hit 75c on the stock cooler with shit case airflow 

 

When I have access to my PC again (no gpu rn) I'm totally willing to get real bench and run.  

 

Again I've literally never said X299 performs badly, obviously your chip that costs more than my entire PC is going to outperform my cpu...

[Atra1n2]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

I'd definitely give consideration to a x99 option with the ability to upgrade to a 6950x.  Especially considering that used prices are dropping substantially on them!

While this platform is quite powerful, where will it be in two years? The 6950x is the end of the road for x-99, and while it is an exceptionally powerful platform, who knows what new technology, standards and software will be released that the aging platform will not be able to handle?

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, Atra1n2 said:

While this platform is quite powerful, where will it be in two years?

Not far behind.

 

4 minutes ago, Atra1n2 said:

x-99, and while it is an exceptionally powerful platform, who knows what new technology, standards and software will be released that the aging platform will not be able to handle?

There will be little that X99 can't handle, well. But by the time X99 can't handle something, neither will X299. They've both got a good life ahead of them.

[DocSwag]

36 minutes ago, BluJay614 said:

So you are making an extreme assumption and claiming it as definitive fact without anything other then speculation to back it up.

Speculation? More like common sense.

 

Ryzen CPUs hit a wall at 4 ghz and very few can hit 4.1 or 4.2. It makes very little sense then that threadripper can go any higher, especially seeing as amd hasn't said it's binned or anything, and even if it was binned the difference wouldn't be large enough to make up the difference to a 4.6 or 4.7 ghz 7800x.

 

Also, you marking my posts as just indicates your immaturity to me. I honestly don't even understand why you do it, all it does is increase the funny count on my profile so it helps me.

[done12many2]

5 minutes ago, Damascus said:

First off I use p95, max heat option  and I hit 75c on the stock cooler with shit case airflow 

 

You missed that part where I said that Ryzen doesn't effectively us AVX.  Therefore, if AMD reduced your ability to use it, your CPU will not get as hot in Prime95 with AVX because they've removed some of that option from you.  

 

I don't think you understand that that's actually not a good thing.  

 

31 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Why don't you share your OC, voltages and temps (and whether you delidded) instead of un helpfully sniping.

5 minutes ago, Damascus said:

When I have access to my PC again (no gpu rn) I'm totally willing to get real bench and run.  

 

Again I've literally never said X299 performs badly, obviously your chip that costs more than my entire PC is going to outperform my cpu...

 

You're intent was to cast a shadow on x299 while promoting AM4.  Then you ask someone to share their overclocking information when you weren't even prepared to do so yourself?  Then you asked me to do something that you weren't prepared to do yourself?

 

It's kind of hard to debate with guys like you because you cite what you've read or seen somewhere else on the internet instead of offering first hand experience.  I'm not hating though because it is the LTT way.  

[Damascus]

@BluJay614

Listen to me.  I own a 1700 and I will say to you right now, intel extreme beats it.  DUUUUUUUH.

Intel extreme also costs like 4 to 7 times the price for the cpu alone, you pay for the performance.  

 

Ryzens strength is price to performance, not straight performance.

[ARikozuM]

Are we finally done with the Ryzen vs Intel debate? Are we going to get back on topic? Stay tuned for next week's episode! 

[DocSwag]

8 minutes ago, Damascus said:

@BluJay614

Listen to me.  I own a 1700 and I will say to you right now, intel extreme beats it.  DUUUUUUUH.

Intel extreme also costs like 4 to 7 times the price for the cpu alone, you pay for the performance.  

 

Ryzens strength is price to performance, not straight performance.

A 1700 based system compared to a 7800x based system is about $500 vs $700. So 4-7 times is way exaggerated.

 

Pros for 7800x:

-vastly better single threaded performance (20-25% when OCed)

-more pcie lanes from both CPU and chipset

-quad channel vs dual channel

-better high frequency memory support

-better OCing

-better upgrade path

-AVX 512

 

Pros for 1700

-slightly better multi threaded performance (5% when OCed)

-cheaper

-runs cooler

 

Jusging by this I think the 7800x is worth considering for op.

 

[Damascus]

2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

You're intent was to cast a shadow on x299 while promoting AM4.  Then you ask someone to share their overclocking information when you weren't even prepared to do so yourself?  Then you asked me to do something that you weren't prepared to do yourself?

 

It's kind of hard to debate with guys like you because you cite what you've read or seen somewhere else on the internet instead of offering first hand experience.  I'm not hating though because it is the LTT way.  

Srry bout that, 3.6ghz at stock 1.225v runs about 75c on the max heat p95 it doesn't include avx, therefore performance is unchanged.

 

And on to the second point if I could afford to spend more on a PC then I could on my tuition I would, 10/10

 

My first comment was literally just "here's some info on ryzen, also the intel extreme runs hot"

 

Not exactly casting a shadow.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

A 1700 based system compared to a 7800x based system is about $500 vs $700. So 4-7 times is way exaggerated.

 

Pros for 7800x:

-vastly better single threaded performance (20-25% when OCed)

-more pcie lanes from both CPU and chipset

-quad channel vs dual channel

-better high frequency memory support

-better OCing

-better upgrade path

 

Pros for 1700

-slightly better multi threaded performance (5% when OCed)

-cheaper

-runs cooler

 

Jusging by this I think the 7800x is worth considering for op.

 

You forgot AVX512 for the 7800K.

[DocSwag]

Just now, Drak3 said:

You forgot AVX512 for the 7800K.

Right I forgot about dat  

[Damascus]

5 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

A 1700 based system compared to a 7800x based system is about $500 vs $700. So 4-7 times is way exaggerated.

Cheapest i9 is 1000, 1700 is 300. 3x is more accurate.

[DocSwag]

2 minutes ago, Damascus said:

Cheapest i9 is 1000, 1700 is 300. 3x is more accurate.

But we're not comparing an i9 tho, I'm comparing a 7800x

[done12many2]

11 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

A 1700 based system compared to a 7800x based system is about $500 vs $700. So 4-7 times is way exaggerated.

 

Pros for 7800x:

-vastly better single threaded performance (20-25% when OCed)

-more pcie lanes from both CPU and chipset

-quad channel vs dual channel

-better high frequency memory support

-better OCing

-better upgrade path

-AVX 512

 

Pros for 1700

-slightly better multi threaded performance (5% when OCed)

-cheaper

-runs cooler

 

Jusging by this I think the 7800x is worth considering for op.

 

 

Speaking of memory.  Check out this latest config that I'm currently testing.  Perfectly stable.

 

Please disregard my super high temps at 4.5 GHz as my fans are only running at half speed.  

 

 

 

[DocSwag]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

Speaking of memory.  Check out this latest config that I'm currently testing.  Perfectly stable.

 

 

 

Able to get it any higher than 3600? Or haven't tested it yet?

 

Also outta curiosity have you delidded your 7900x?

[Damascus]

3 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

But we're not comparing an i9 tho, I'm comparing a 7800x

I specified intel extreme.  ie. Intel i9.