Help: X299 vs AM4 2 years down the road.

[Rig98]

I am looking at building a new PC for the first time in almost a decade. One of my requirements is the level of future upgrade options available to me from either platform.

 

MY plan is to build a decent system (16gb ram in 2x8gb, GTX 1080) that i can build on over atleast the next 2 years. Over time i'll slowly add a second 1080, double the ram, and eventually get a better processor at the end. 

 

All things equal, an X299 i7-7800x and an X370 1700x will run me about the same. What i cant really tell is, CPU wise, which will be better down the road.

 

X299 just looking at current info this one looks the most promising as the X299 platform will supposedly be compatible with even the bigdog upteen-cored i9s planned for release but whether current motherboards will have problems actually supporting them is another question.

 

X370 looks better on price point over time but the new Threadripper stuff that will compete with i9 appears to require a whole new platform with X399 boards. Meaning i may not have the same level of upgrade options come 2019.

 

The system will primarily be a gaming/photo editing/drawing rig, I have no plans to vid cap or stream of any kind but would like to tinker with video editing eventually.

 

Now my knowledge on the new platforms may be off or completely wrong, this is just where i am right now and needing help picking a direction. I need this system to last as this is a rare opportunity for me to be able to dump $2k into a computer.

 

So, thoughts?

[DocSwag]

I think 7800x would be a better option. It'll be better for what you do and it'll probably get higher core count CPUs than Ryzen will get.

[crysilis]

8 minutes ago, Rig98 said:

-snip-

personally imo x299 is shit(like wtf was intel thinking) I don't support their business practices.

and Ryzen is good and you don't have all the stupid things that x299 has

so I say Ryzen

But honestly I don't know atm which one will have the better upgrade path

I can't predict the future so 

yeah

[Rig98]

1 minute ago, crysilis said:

personally imo x299 is shit(like wtf was intel thinking) I don't support their business practices.

and Ryzen is good and you don't have all the stupid things that x299 has

so I say Ryzen

But honestly I don't know atm which one will have the better upgrade path

I can't predict the future so 

yeah

What specifically is shit about the platform itself?

[robotsalad]

pentium 4. if you're doing high refresh rate gaming at like 1080 or 1440 then ryzen 5 or i5. if you just want a big F-off machine wait until threadripper or buy x370. x299 will be around $2k with just cpu and motherboard alone.

[ARikozuM]

I'd go Ryzen. No point buying a low-end chip on an enthusiast platform only to upgrade later. 

[DocSwag]

3 minutes ago, crysilis said:

personally imo x299 is shit(like wtf was intel thinking) I don't support their business practices.

and Ryzen is good and you don't have all the stupid things that x299 has

so I say Ryzen

But honestly I don't know atm which one will have the better upgrade path

I can't predict the future so 

yeah

Who cares about business practices, I sure don't.

 

You also have to remember that if amd was in Intel's scenario they would do the exact same stuff Intel does. The fact of the matter is supporting businesses because the competition has bad business practices ALMOST ALWAYS is the stupidest idea ever.

1 minute ago, robotsalad said:

pentium 4. if you're doing high refresh rate gaming at like 1080 or 1440 then ryzen 5 or i5. if you just want a big F-off machine wait until threadripper or buy x370. x299 will be around $2k with just cpu and motherboard alone.

Ummmm 7800x+X299+16gb ram would be like $700-$800, not $2k

[Rig98]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

I'd go Ryzen. No point buying a low-end chip on an enthusiast platform only to upgrade later. 

I understand the 7800X is bottom of the barrel, but the difference in power between it and a 1700x hasn't appeared to major. The main concern is what will i be looking at in a year or 2 years when i can get the big, mohunkin cpu.

[robotsalad]

Just now, DocSwag said:

Who cares about business practices, I sure don't.

 

You also have to remember that if amd was in Intel's scenario they would do the exact same stuff Intel does. The fact of the matter is supporting businesses because the competition has bad business practices ALMOST ALWAYS is the stupidest idea ever.

Ummmm 7800x+X299+16gb ram would be like $700-$800, not $2k

that's not a big F-off machine though.  He could do that on z170. yeah he could upgrade with x299 but then he's spending over $1000 to start, and then another $1,200 (or more) for a big F-off intel chip that will have less pcie lanes and probably less performance than x399.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Rig98 said:

I understand the 7800X is bottom of the barrel, but the difference in power between it and a 1700x hasn't appeared to major. The main concern is what will i be looking at in a year or 2 years when i can get the big, mohunkin cpu.

Why not get a G4560? Coffee Lake will have a hexa-core on the i7 (6P/6L) whereas the i5 will, supposedly, be 4P/8L. 

 

If you're looking to buy the CPU in a year's time, try to save up for the biggest one that you can like a 6P/12L rather than the 4P/8L parts since those real cores are always better than logical cores. 

[Rig98]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

Why not get a G4560? Coffee Lake will have a hexa-core on the i7 (6P/6L) whereas the i5 will, supposedly, be 4P/8L. 

 

If you're looking to buy the CPU in a year's time, try to save up for the biggest one that you can like a 6P/12L rather than the 4P/8L parts since those real cores are always better than logical cores. 

No i'm looking at buying the system now and upgrading the cpu in a year to 2 years time.

[Damascus]

Well ryzen has been garunteed at least 2 more generations on the same chipset (maybe 3) and the promise of at least 15% ipc improvement per generation with the potential for more cores.

 

Definitely ryzen.

 

Also X299 is insanely hot.

[asand1]

9 minutes ago, Rig98 said:

What specifically is shit about the platform itself?

Iirc half the PCI lanes and no raid to begin with. X299 is a neutered Xeon, so as to not cut into Xeon sales. X299 was a knee jerk reaction and a half assed product not keep sales from AMD , and just leaves Intel fanboys with a handicapped CPU. 

[Atra1n2]

As far as "upgrade-ability," I think X-299 may be the better bet. X-99 received two generations of CPUs (Haswell & Broadwell). If Intel continues with this trend on their HEDT platform, we may see a new generation of chips for the platform, even after the 16 & 18-core i9s come out later this year. However, the other side of this is, who knows what AMD might do with their platform? Good luck, but I say X-299.

[Rig98]

2 minutes ago, robotsalad said:

that's not a big F-off machine though.  He could do that on z170. yeah he could upgrade with x299 but then he's spending over $1000 to start, and then another $1,200 (or more) for a big F-off intel chip that will have less pcie lanes and probably less performance than x399.

My problem with waiting for X399 is price. With the cost of X370 being comparable to X299 i can only assume X399 is going to be really pricey, not even knowing what CPU cost will be, and will cut into the other components i want.

[DocSwag]

3 minutes ago, robotsalad said:

that's not a big F-off machine though.  He could do that on z170. yeah he could upgrade with x299 but then he's spending over $1000 to start, and then another $1,200 (or more) for a big F-off intel chip that will have less pcie lanes and probably less performance than x399.

But it doesn't have to be?

 

Right now he pays $700-$800 for the platform, and in a few years time he could upgrade to a larger core count CPU that's <=$999 or so (7900x future equivalent perhaps? Would be at most $999, probably less). You're price estimates are a few hundred higher than they should be.

 

X399 still lacks in single threaded performance compared to Intel, and the extra pcie lanes aren't really that useful ATM.

[DocSwag]

2 minutes ago, Atra1n2 said:

As far as "upgrade-ability," I think X-299 may be the better bet. X-99 received two generations of CPUs (Haswell & Broadwell). If Intel continues with this trend on their HEDT platform, we may see a new generation of chips for the platform, even after the 16 & 18-core i9s come out later this year. However, the other side of this is, who knows what AMD might do with their platform? Good luck, but I say X-299.

Exactly this, the x370 platform won't see much higher than 8 core CPUs (maybe 10 at most) since higher core counts are for x399.

[BluJay614]

It's alittle hard to tell. The Ryzen 7 1700 OC will pretty much match the performance of a 1700X or a 1800X. The i7-7800X however is a completely different type of platform, being HDT.  So far, the biggest difference is PCIe lanes. If you really need more, Threadripper is about to come out, and we'll have something to compare then. If things hold true, Intel updates the socket about every 3 years. We know AM4 will be around for four, which is what AMD promised. As of right now, I would go with AMD rather then Intel.

8 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

Who cares about business practices, I sure don't.

 

You also have to remember that if amd was in Intel's scenario they would do the exact same stuff Intel does. The fact of the matter is supporting businesses because the competition has bad business practices ALMOST ALWAYS is the stupidest idea ever.

Ummmm 7800x+X299+16gb ram would be like $700-$800, not $2k

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/MJgRtJ CoreX

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hkHkZ8 1700 W/X370

4 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Why not get a G4560? Coffee Lake will have a hexa-core on the i7 (6P/6L) whereas the i5 will, supposedly, be 4P/8L. 

 

If you're looking to buy the CPU in a year's time, try to save up for the biggest one that you can like a 6P/12L rather than the 4P/8L parts since those real cores are always better than logical cores. 

That is also only roomer as of right now

 

1 minute ago, Rig98 said:

My problem with waiting for X399 is price. With the cost of X370 being comparable to X299 i can only assume X399 is going to be really pricey, not even knowing what CPU cost will be, and will cut into the other components i want.

Threadripper is supposed to come out in the next month or two. The Area 51 with Threadripper is comming out later this month, so we know it's not far off of that. As far as pricing is anyone's guess.

[robotsalad]

4 minutes ago, Rig98 said:

I understand the 7800X is bottom of the barrel, but the difference in power between it and a 1700x hasn't appeared to major. The main concern is what will i be looking at in a year or 2 years when i can get the big, mohunkin cpu.

7800X is good I would buy that if I could because it's beastly but doesn't have so much extra that I don't need.  But you really don't need it to be honest it seems like you just want a beast computer.

[Rig98]

2 minutes ago, asand1 said:

Iirc half the PCI lanes and no raid to begin with. X299 is a neutered Xeon, so as to not cut into Xeon sales. X299 was a knee jerk reaction and a half assed product not keep sales from AMD , and just leaves Intel fanboys with a handicapped CPU. 

I have no specific interest in raid other than as backup. and its not like 1700x is rocking huge PCIe lane numbers.

[BluJay614]

2 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

X399 still lacks in single threaded performance compared to Intel, and the extra pcie lanes aren't really that useful ATM.

Would you care to explain exactly how it is you know this as a definitive fact?

[DocSwag]

1 minute ago, BluJay614 said:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/MJgRtJ CoreX

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hkHkZ8 1700 W/X370

And your point is?

 

You're paying more for more. 7800x is better than 1700 in all but extremely niche scenarios, and you get better upgrade paths (1700 is x370, super high core count CPUs aren't likely since that's for threadripper whereas x299 is already confirmed up to 18 cores)

[asand1]

Just now, Rig98 said:

I have no specific interest in raid other than as backup. and its not like 1700x is rocking huge PCIe lane numbers.

Isn't it like 24 vs 40 or something? Personally I don't care, just pointing out the difference in functionality and value.

[Rig98]

2 minutes ago, BluJay614 said:

It's alittle hard to tell. The Ryzen 7 1700 OC will pretty much match the performance of a 1700X or a 1800X.

i SHould probably have mentioned i have no interest in overclocking.

[DocSwag]

1 minute ago, BluJay614 said:

Would you care to explain exactly how it is you know this as a definitive fact?

Threadripper is using the same dies as Ryzen 7, and Ryzen 7 hits a wall at 4 ghz. Ryzen is behind Intel when it comes to single threaded performance and OCing.

 

Of course this isn't technically definitive, but I think it's safe to say that I have a 99.99999999% chance of being right.