Floatplane club without needing a creditcard?

[Arthurvs]

1 minute ago, Ezzy-525 said:

That's a shame. I guess for now you'll have to wait until FPC takes other forms of payment. 

Indeed, I was hoping they would create a subscription with Paypal that does not renew automatically.
Because, I do not know if its clear, a nonrenewal Paypal link would solve the problem, so another payment system is not needed at all.

[Ezzy-525]

Just now, Arthurvs said:

I am not going to Blackmail Linus for a number of reasons:

1. The guy works hard.
2. The guy works hard.
3. The guy works hard.
4. Although I am a student, in this case, I can afford it from my Birthday money.
5. I will always fight for fair things in life... and blackmailing is not fair!

Yeah @JoostinOnline you're a big ol' meanie! 

[Arthurvs]

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

Dude, it was a joke. Chill out.

I know it was a joke , but the concept of blackmail always makes me mad. People who do that are just incredible mean.

[LogicalDrm]

May I ask which "Europian" country this is common in? Because it sure isn't common around whole Europe. And not even inside EU. In here most people use debit cards issued by banks. As a extra service, cards can be assigned for online/international payments, NFC payments etc. I'm using PayPal with Visa Electron debit card. I could get both credit card and full feature debit card (usually called just bank cards), but so far don't feel the need for it.

 

What I read, it sounds like iDeal is alternative to PayPal. Except instead of using just PayPal login, you are using banks login to online payments and iDeal makes it more accessible. They don't list fee anywhere so I assume it varies between banks.

 

The reason PayPal isn't common in local webshop here is that we use very efficient web banking system. For online payments you get direct login for bank, if you have online banking credentials. If not, they have cards as option.

[Arthurvs]

2 hours ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

May I ask which "Europian" country this is common in? Because it sure isn't common around whole Europe. And not even inside EU. In here most people use debit cards issued by banks. As a extra service, cards can be assigned for online/international payments, NFC payments etc. I'm using PayPal with Visa Electron debit card. I could get both credit card and full feature debit card (usually called just bank cards), but so far don't feel the need for it.

 

What I read, it sounds like iDeal is alternative to PayPal. Except instead of using just PayPal login, you are using banks login to online payments and iDeal makes it more accessible. They don't list fee anywhere so I assume it varies between banks.

 

The reason PayPal isn't common in local webshop here is that we use very efficient web banking system. For online payments you get direct login for bank, if you have online banking credentials. If not, they have cards as option.

The country I live in is The Netherlands. I am actually not aware of how many Europian countries use the "Ideal" system, but I know that the Europian web shops I use support it and even China's Aliexpress. Banks in the Netherlands must offer the Ideal system and may not charge for it.

For payments outside the EU, I use Paypal. Not a problem because Paypal actually supports transferring money with the Ideal system to your Paypal wallet. 
The only reason I have a problem now is that Paypal requires a connection with your bank, credit card or debit card when you have an automatically renewing payment.

I do not want to connect my Paypal to my bank because of losing some rights that consumers have when money is stolen from their account.
I can't take a credit or debit card because this will make it harder to loan money for a house and that is just by the card.

Therefore I asked if they could make a nonrenewal year long subscription option. Because if I have to do it manually Paypal won't require a linked credit card, debit card or bank account.

[AG1233]

You can just pay once with PayPal and then cancel the renewal,wouldnt it just have the same effect that you are trying to achieve.

[Arthurvs]

22 minutes ago, AG1233 said:

You can just pay once with PayPal and then cancel the renewal,wouldnt it just have the same effect that you are trying to achieve.

It won't accept the first payment because it needs a credit card to do a renewal payment.
It just says: Please fill in your credit card information, wich I do not have. So the road ends there :/.

[Guest]

I used a prepaid card for floatplane club for a couple months.

[Trustadz]

As a fellow Dutchy I know the trouble. It's my opinion that the Netherlands are far ahead of electronic financial services. When Apple announced Apple pay they said in the presentation "the credit card is outdated, with its security printed on the back." I was laughing out loud. I already had NFC in my pin card. Yes pin card, no creditcard, no prepaid card, no debit card. Besides the credit card, with its drawbacks, the pin is your only choice. I know no one who pays with credit card within the Netherlands.

 

We have a system that is so advanced you can pay almost everywhere with just the card. Local shops? No problem! Farmers market? Just swipe here please. Last year I was a board member of a study union, and like many others here we have the option of paying with your card.

 

Troubles is, the rest of the world is still outdated.

 

As for the op, I remember that I could link my bank account to PayPal giving it the access to get funds from my bank when needed. But I haven't used it in ages. I actually got a student creditcard. It costs close to nothing and has a limit of €1000, so you don't have to worry about the mortgage.

 

As for the rest of the world. Get you payment systems in check. Almost everyone I know can and does use a nfc card. And a lot of places accept it.

 

P.S iDEAL is Dutch only, could be something similar is available across the border, but probably under a different name. That being said, it's not hard to implement to floatplane, though I have not worked on it with a foreign bank.

[LogicalDrm]

8 hours ago, Trustadz said:

As a fellow Dutchy I know the trouble. It's my opinion that the Netherlands are far ahead of electronic financial services. When Apple announced Apple pay they said in the presentation "the credit card is outdated, with its security printed on the back." I was laughing out loud. I already had NFC in my pin card. Yes pin card, no creditcard, no prepaid card, no debit card. Besides the credit card, with its drawbacks, the pin is your only choice. I know no one who pays with credit card within the Netherlands.

 

We have a system that is so advanced you can pay almost everywhere with just the card. Local shops? No problem! Farmers market? Just swipe here please. Last year I was a board member of a study union, and like many others here we have the option of paying with your card.

 

Troubles is, the rest of the world is still outdated.

 

As for the op, I remember that I could link my bank account to PayPal giving it the access to get funds from my bank when needed. But I haven't used it in ages. I actually got a student creditcard. It costs close to nothing and has a limit of €1000, so you don't have to worry about the mortgage.

 

As for the rest of the world. Get you payment systems in check. Almost everyone I know can and does use a nfc card. And a lot of places accept it.

 

P.S iDEAL is Dutch only, could be something similar is available across the border, but probably under a different name. That being said, it's not hard to implement to floatplane, though I have not worked on it with a foreign bank.

To @Arthurvs too. From that description iDeal sounds like bank card or debit card but without international payment options. Furthermore, while probably being more advanced local payment than in many countries (in here just card payments in general have become more common within last 3-5 years), lack of international payment support makes it too local for any smaller service provider.

 

While having card doesn't cost you anything, nor to bank providing it, it will cost something to someone. Probably party offering payments through it. In Netherlands its most likely handled by bank which handles payments by seller. In here the devices are ones that cost small monthly fee for stores/sellers. You don't see them in prices, but since they cost vs credit cards or cash, smallest sellers might not have them just because of that. Those payments are reason why LMG doesn't have direct CC payments as option. For sums they handle, it would be too expensive. With iDeal they would get too small user base to make it worth of hassle.

 

So in your situation, complain to PayPal is best option. Like I said, I don't own CC but use PayPal with debit card. Which in my eyes is almost same thing. I don't pay anything for it, it works outside Finland and also for most places accepting Visa CCs.

[Trustadz]

1 minute ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

To @Arthurvs too. From that description iDeal sounds like bank card or debit card but without international payment options. Furthermore, while probably being more advanced local payment than in many countries (in here just card payments in general have become more common within last 3-5 years), lack of international payment support makes it too local for any smaller service provider.

 

While having card doesn't cost you anything, nor to bank providing it, it will cost something to someone. Probably party offering payments through it. In Netherlands its most likely handled by bank which handles payments by seller. In here the devices are ones that cost small monthly fee for stores/sellers. You don't see them in prices, but since they cost vs credit cards or cash, smallest sellers might not have them just because of that. Those payments are reason why LMG doesn't have direct CC payments as option. For sums they handle, it would be too expensive. With iDeal they would get too small user base to make it worth of hassle.

 

So in your situation, complain to PayPal is best option. Like I said, I don't own CC but use PayPal with debit card. Which in my eyes is almost same thing. I don't pay anything for it, it works outside Finland and also for most places accepting Visa CCs.

iDEAL is an online payment solution. It's basically just a layer of security in which the seller can send some variables (like amount to be paid, the bank account that needs to obtain the money, that sort of stuff). Through the secure connection you get connected to your own bank in which you have to login.

How you do that is up to the bank. ING just has a username and password. Rabobank has a physical scanner you need to keep with you, put your card in it and it can scan a colorful QR code for the password. ABN has another way for it, similar to Rabo i think.

After you login to your own bank account, you accept the amount for payment and you're good to go.

 

I'm unsure if I have a credit or debit card besides the pin card. I pay things with the debit/credit card and at the beginning of every month it'll take that money from my bank account. So which one it is, I don't know. Going to call it debit card from now on out until someone corrects me.

Having a debit card here, for let's say €5000,- does come with one mayor drawback. When applying for a loan or mortgage the supplier simply sees you 'can' loan €5000,- on a monthly basis. Thus, they input that you do. You don't have to use it. But you can, and thus you do. This gives you a higher interest rate. So it's not that great to have.

[Arthurvs]

9 hours ago, Trustadz said:

As a fellow Dutchy I know the trouble. It's my opinion that the Netherlands are far ahead of electronic financial services. When Apple announced Apple pay they said in the presentation "the credit card is outdated, with its security printed on the back." I was laughing out loud. I already had NFC in my pin card. Yes pin card, no creditcard, no prepaid card, no debit card. Besides the credit card, with its drawbacks, the pin is your only choice. I know no one who pays with credit card within the Netherlands.

 

We have a system that is so advanced you can pay almost everywhere with just the card. Local shops? No problem! Farmers market? Just swipe here please. Last year I was a board member of a study union, and like many others here we have the option of paying with your card.

 

Troubles is, the rest of the world is still outdated.

 

As for the op, I remember that I could link my bank account to PayPal giving it the access to get funds from my bank when needed. But I haven't used it in ages. I actually got a student creditcard. It costs close to nothing and has a limit of €1000, so you don't have to worry about the mortgage.

 

As for the rest of the world. Get you payment systems in check. Almost everyone I know can and does use a nfc card. And a lot of places accept it.

 

P.S iDEAL is Dutch only, could be something similar is available across the border, but probably under a different name. That being said, it's not hard to implement to floatplane, though I have not worked on it with a foreign bank.

You can indeed pay with the bank card everywhere, I mean everywhere. I have not used cash for over a year now....

I have implemented Ideal in a website myself. It sounds complicated but in the end, after one and a half hour of work, it was up and running.
Weird that all the Europian web shops I know support Ideal when it's only Dutch, something I did not know.

[LogicalDrm]

11 minutes ago, Trustadz said:

I'm unsure if I have a credit or debit card besides the pin card. I pay things with the debit/credit card and at the beginning of every month it'll take that money from my bank account. So which one it is, I don't know. Going to call it debit card from now on out until someone corrects me.

Having a debit card here, for let's say €5000,- does come with one mayor drawback. When applying for a loan or mortgage the supplier simply sees you 'can' loan €5000,- on a monthly basis. Thus, they input that you do. You don't have to use it. But you can, and thus you do. This gives you a higher interest rate. So it's not that great to have.

That would be how credit card works. You buy something with credit, which is then paid when you decide or at the end/beginning of month. Debit is direct payment request from bank. Because of safety of you and seller, they have 1-3 day "freeze" period where money is frozen from use at account side while transaction is being verified.

 

Here's Wikipedia for debit card:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debit_card

Also for iDeal, which states that physical card works practically same way as debit card. Just without chargeback option which debit cards for Finnish banks have (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL). I've used that chargeback once. Tedious process for €35, but made sure the card won't be used again.

[Arthurvs]

26 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

That would be how credit card works. You buy something with credit, which is then paid when you decide or at the end/beginning of month. Debit is direct payment request from bank. Because of safety of you and seller, they have 1-3 day "freeze" period where money is frozen from use at account side while transaction is being verified.

 

Here's Wikipedia for debit card:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debit_card

Also for iDeal, which states that physical card works practically same way as debit card. Just without chargeback option which debit cards for Finnish banks have (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDEAL). I've used that chargeback once. Tedious process for €35, but made sure the card won't be used again.

Adding a debit card to your bank account here has some major drawbacks.
In the Netherlands, you have some consumer rights in the banking system. One of them is that because the bank owns the whole system and is responsible for its security, they are also partially responsible if your money gets stolen. Actually, the bank has to prove that it's not their fault. When you connect Paypal or a Debit Card to your bank account you wave those consumer rights goodbye, because the bank does not control the whole system anymore.

So I do not want to connect a Debit Card or Paypal to my bank account because of major drawbacks.
And I do not want to have a Credit Card because it has an even larger drawback, it's harder to get a loan for a house.
I am not like "meh don't feel like a Credit Card, let me go whine here", these are valid reasons why the current system does not work for me.

In a comment above you said that the best option is to complain to PayPal. But Paypal is not asking anything out of the ordinary. Paypal just wants a guarantee that in a year there will be money to pay the renewal from. So it's very weird to complain about that.

But to get this clear, I am NOT requesting Floatplane Club to implement Ideal.
I was asking Floatplane Club for a Paypal payment for a year that does NOT renew itself. Because then Paypal does not require a Credit Card for the transaction.

I have explained the problems I am dealing with. Some people do not understand why I just don't get a Debit or Credit card. Well, I explained the drawbacks and that is not a route I want to go for understandable reasons. I am just not able to pay with the current system and I have to wait for the new version of Floatplane Club to see what new Payment methods are implemented. My fear is that the new methods will be Credit Card payments, wich means I still won't be able to pay.

What I do not understand is why it seems so hard to copy the current subscription through Paypal and just remove the renewal part. Making it the users own responsibility to renew it. Because then Paypal does only require enough funds on the wallet to pay at the given time making a Credit Card not needed.

And yes I can live without Floatplane Club, but I like the idea of it and the point of this request is, that is looked easy to me to make a small change, making the system more accessible. But I am fearing that everyone, including the admin that responded to my request, got the wrong message. 
The admin said that new payment systems came in the new version of Float Plane Club. But I was not asking about a new system, I was asking for a third PayPal option :/.

[LogicalDrm]

6 minutes ago, Arthurvs said:

And yes I can live without Floatplane Club, but I like the idea of it and the point of this request is, that is looked easy to me to make a small change, making the system more accessible. But I am fearing that everyone, including the admin that responded to my request, got the wrong message. 
The admin said that new payment systems came in the new version of Float Plane Club. But I was not asking about a new system, I was asking for a third PayPal option :/.

Believe it or not, I'm with you about having single year/month as option. I hate the US/Canada way of auto-renewal. And reason why I say its PayPals end mostly is that since you can add money with other ways, there should be option for using wallet money for subscriptions. Since LMG has it with current system (they actually have only disabled for German users), I assume its too common for US/CA for them to see/realize benefits overall. For this reason I don't think non-auto-renewals will be thing even after additional payments are implemented.

[Arthurvs]

28 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Believe it or not, I'm with you about having single year/month as option. I hate the US/Canada way of auto-renewal. And reason why I say its PayPals end mostly is that since you can add money with other ways, there should be option for using wallet money for subscriptions. Since LMG has it with current system (they actually have only disabled for German users), I assume its too common for US/CA for them to see/realize benefits overall. For this reason I don't think non-auto-renewals will be thing even after additional payments are implemented.

Like you said, it's already implemented for Germany. Thas because in Germany there are laws to protect consumers from too much auto renewal plans. In the Netherlands, auto renewal plans are not blocked by law like in Germany and are a little bit more common. Still, it's its keeps being a typically North American thing to just offer auto-renewal plans. To take myself as a europian example: I own one auto-renewal plan and that is the newspaper. I have the option to take a year-long subscription on my health insurance or pay the whole year upfront and get a discount. I pay the whole year up-front so even my health insurance is not an auto-renewal plan.
Note: I am a student still living at home so other basic auto-renewal plans like the internet connection are paid by my parents, but the whole household has about 5 auto-renewal plans, just the basic stuff (electricity, water, newspaper, car insurance, internet + TV + telephone)

[Arthurvs]

31 minutes ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

Believe it or not, I'm with you about having single year/month as option. I hate the US/Canada way of auto-renewal. And reason why I say its PayPals end mostly is that since you can add money with other ways, there should be option for using wallet money for subscriptions. Since LMG has it with current system (they actually have only disabled for German users), I assume its too common for US/CA for them to see/realize benefits overall. For this reason I don't think non-auto-renewals will be thing even after additional payments are implemented.

Well, in this area from Europe auto-renewal plans are not common but I know that the UK is an exception to that. I always got the idea that the rest of Europe was not a fan of auto-renewal plans either, but is that right? Or is this different in countries like Finland?

[LogicalDrm]

26 minutes ago, Arthurvs said:

Well, in this area from Europe auto-renewal plans are not common but I know that the UK is an exception to that. I always got the idea that the rest of Europe was not a fan of auto-renewal plans either, but is that right? Or is this different in countries like Finland?

We do have auto-renewals, but they work in different way. Called "kestotilaus" which translates to continuous subscription. Most of the times they are for extra TV channels, internet/phone service and printed media. Idea is that you pay it in advance to selected period. When period is ending, service gives notice and time to pay. If you pay, nothing changes. If you don't, its auto-cancelled. With internet and phone service with varying amounts, you need to cancel it manually before current term ends. Otherwise you will pay for use plus fee for cancelling in middle of term.

[Arthurvs]

1 hour ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

We do have auto-renewals, but they work in different way. Called "kestotilaus" which translates to continuous subscription. Most of the times they are for extra TV channels, internet/phone service and printed media. Idea is that you pay it in advance to selected period. When period is ending, service gives notice and time to pay. If you pay, nothing changes. If you don't, its auto-cancelled. With internet and phone service with varying amounts, you need to cancel it manually before current term ends. Otherwise you will pay for use plus fee for cancelling in middle of term.

The system is almost the same over here as I recognize a lot of things in your description.

[1988fido]

Ok I use PayPal and I always used it with my Prepaid Cards ( visa ) but for some reason it doesn't work with floatplane club whenever I click to checkout it sends me to PayPal and ask me to add a card !! which is weird coz there is already a card in my PayPal account and it works fine for other sites also when I try to add a card I can't it just keep refreshing the same page instead of progressing or even saying invalid ? whats going on ?
(which am already logged in and my cards already added and I buy from any other site just fine ). 

I just get this message " 

Does this mean I can't because am using Prepaid Visa on PayPal ? which is weird coz kit works fine for all other subscriptions , even Netflix... amazon prime .crunchyroll. etc..

[DXMember]

aren't there cloud services that offer virtual credit cards when you wire some bitcoin amount it yet?

[LogicalDrm]

2 hours ago, 1988fido said:

Ok I use PayPal and I always used it with my Prepaid Cards ( visa ) but for some reason it doesn't work with floatplane club whenever I click to checkout it sends me to PayPal and ask me to add a card !! which is weird coz there is already a card in my PayPal account and it works fine for other sites also when I try to add a card I can't it just keep refreshing the same page instead of progressing or even saying invalid ? whats going on ?
(which am already logged in and my cards already added and I buy from any other site just fine ). 

I just get this message " 

Does this mean I can't because am using Prepaid Visa on PayPal ? which is weird coz kit works fine for all other subscriptions , even Netflix... amazon prime .crunchyroll. etc..

3 minutes ago, DXMember said:

aren't there cloud services that offer virtual credit cards when you wire some bitcoin amount it yet?

 

I have a feeling PayPal is at fault in here.

 

@colonel_mortis, is there reason why we can't get auto-renewals optional for other countries besides Germany? Or added $1-2 for those if its about money.

[colonel_mortis]

3 hours ago, 1988fido said:

Ok I use PayPal and I always used it with my Prepaid Cards ( visa ) but for some reason it doesn't work with floatplane club whenever I click to checkout it sends me to PayPal and ask me to add a card !! which is weird coz there is already a card in my PayPal account and it works fine for other sites also when I try to add a card I can't it just keep refreshing the same page instead of progressing or even saying invalid ? whats going on ?
(which am already logged in and my cards already added and I buy from any other site just fine ). 

I just get this message " 

Does this mean I can't because am using Prepaid Visa on PayPal ? which is weird coz kit works fine for all other subscriptions , even Netflix... amazon prime .crunchyroll. etc..

PayPal requires a credit or debit card for recurring payments; prepaid cards aren't supported.

[Princess Luna]

On 01/07/2017 at 0:09 PM, colonel_mortis said:

PayPal does support debit (bank) cards as well as credit cards.

In many countries the debit cards will only allow purchases in the local currency nationally.

Western Union would be cool for its simplicity but I understand that can be shady.

[LogicalDrm]

8 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

In many countries the debit cards will only allow purchases in the local currency nationally.

Western Union would be cool for its simplicity but I understand that can be shady.

PayPal lets you select which currency to use. Or rather which part of transaction the conversion will be made. They can do it or let bank do it.