[UPDATED] Der8auer States Some X299 Low End boards Have Bad VRM Coolers

[Lord Nicoll]

2 minutes ago, DoctorWho1975 said:

 

Right, thats not the point, amount spent isn't the issue. It's the fact that no one can bitch at 300 dollars, so is it acceptable to bitch at 600...900? Thats what I am trying to narrow down, so that way I can goto every Intel thread and tell em to stop bitching because they didn't spend enough money.

Amount spent is the issue, the cheaper boards can't do it, they should be able to at least scrape by with a pass, but they don't. If you spend 1500USD and then another 600USD on memory, why the fuck you spend just 300USD on a board, these PCs are designed for business that might be used to spending 100,000+USD on servers, 50,000+USD on workstations etc, or overlclockers who are expected to hold records (they'd probably be given the boards unless they aren't sponsored). This is what is wrong though at the same time, The Intel ecosystem is now like the Apple one, they have conditioned you to expect to spend more on a board, but at the same time this is really a whole different calibre of CPU and boards. Either point can be argued successfully depending on the skill of both parties and the rebuttals. 

[TOMPPIX]

huehuehue. This happens when the motherboards are designed for looks not function.

 

[tom_w141]

8 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

The answer is it depends: Do you want to push your 7900X to >1.2V?

• Yes? Get a board like this: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145014
• No? Any X299 board will work

Fixed

 

The point is you should be able to overclock it on X299 board. Cost of X299 just goes up and up  

[porina]

3 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

The memory issues are basically completely fixed with AGESA 1.0.0.6 but you can't fix a VRM with a simple BIOS-update...

And as we know from the past people are quite sensitive when it comes down to power issues, i mean the RX 480 6-pin issue was also a "big deal"...

I'm not seeing a major problem here. Generally you're offered products that are expected to operate at stock. If you overclock, you are responsible for taking appropriate measures including selecting suitable components for the level of overclock targeted. That lower end X299 boards might hit some limit and not overclock as well as higher end ones? Is that really a surprise to anyone? If you said running it at stock was potentially dangerous, that's another matter, and the early RX 480 issue was an example of this. The current drawn from the PCIe slot was outside of standards.

 

When I first got a R7 1700, I initially paired it with a B350M-A purely as the mobo I could get quickest. It has no heatsink on the VRM, and using a thermal imaging camera shown below it was hitting around 84C or so under load. Posting my observations on another forum, another user requested the part numbers of the components used in the VRM and found the datasheets for them. They're rated for -55°C to 150°C operation. The mobo was not even close. The mobo in question did have mounting holes around the VRM, so presumably they kept the option open to put a heatsink on if necessary. I later got an X370 mobo and that did have a heatsink on the VRM, and the temperature of that was insignificant.

 

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

16 minutes ago, TidaLWaveZ said:

Lol, I don't know if you're kidding or you've just been living under a rock for the past 5 or so years. Either way you're just wrong.

3xxx : heat issues due to bad TIM, causing plenty of people to de-lid their 3770K

4xxx : major overheating issues with some of the models, the 4770K being especially notorious for overheating even at stock speeds

5xxx : Lots of bad X99 motherboards

6xxx : the substrate on the Skylake CPUs was so thin that there were plenty of articles about how the CPUs were bending under the weight of aftermarket coolers.  Also needing a microcode update to fix hyperthreading issues

7xxx : Kaby has the same hyperthreading issues as Skylake.  Who knows what else will surface?

 

EDIT : actually Sandy had the Cougar Point SATA bug, should have remembered that because I had one of the affected motherboards.

 

 

[PCGuy_5960]

1 minute ago, tom_w141 said:

The point is you should be able to overclock it on X299 board. Cost of X299 just goes up and up  

Der8auer used 1.35V not 1.2V 

[tom_w141]

2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Der8auer used 1.35V not 1.2V 

I know but outside of 1.2V you have other more pressing thermal issues anyway  

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

I know but outside of 1.2V you have other more pressing thermal issues anyway  

Not if your cooler is up to par

[tom_w141]

4 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

3xxx : heat issues due to bad TIM, causing plenty of people to de-lid their 3770K

4xxx : major overheating issues with some of the models, the 4770K being so bad that they released the 4970K

5xxx : Lots of bad X99 motherboards

6xxx : the substrate on the Skylake CPUs was so thin that there were plenty of articles about how the CPUs were bending under the weight of aftermarket coolers.  Also needing a microcode update to fix hyperthreading issues

7xxx : Kaby has the same hyperthreading issues as Skylake.  Who knows what else will surface?

 

 

Trying too hard. The worst thing Intel has done is take its foot off the gas since crushing AMD in 2012 and now they are paying for it.

[tom_w141]

Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

Not if your cooler is up to par

Yeah sure not if you run a $400+ custom loop. Even then I think 1.35V will be very hot without a delid.

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

Yeah sure not if you run a $400+ custom loop. Even then I think 1.35V will be very hot without a delid.

Yes, but this is HEDT. X299 isn't cheap, X399 won't be cheap either.

 

If you are on a budget and want to get an X299 system, I am pretty sure that you would be content with 4.5-4.6Ghz at 1.2V or less

[TheRandomness]

13 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

You can't blame Intel for this...this isn't the first 10 core CPU that the mobo mfg's have seen.  They were just being cheapskates.

 

Single 8pin has no business being on a X299 board.

Except they pulled the launch to a few months earlier meaning that mobo manufacturers had even less time to plan anything on the boards?

 

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, TheRandomness said:

Except they pulled the launch to a few months earlier meaning that mobo manufacturers had even less time to plan anything on the boards?

Please.... The VRM itself isn't bad, the cooling is what's bad.

 

You can't blame Intel if motherboards manufacturers can't understand that an aluminum block with RGB can't cool the VRM

[TheRandomness]

Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

Please.... The VRM itself isn't bad, the cooling is what's bad.

 

You can't blame Intel if motherboards manufacturers can't understand that an aluminum block with RGB can't cool the VRM

Well, an aluminium block with RGB has been capable before, I mean, look at any 990FX motherboard with decent VRMs

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, TheRandomness said:

Well, an aluminium block with RGB has been capable before, I mean, look at any 990FX motherboard with decent VRMs

Well, if the block was larger it may have been possible, but look at the size of the heatsinks on those X299 boards!

[Dabombinable]

I wonder if any old VRM heatsinks would fit-they for the most part are actually designed like a heatsink (and a lot were made of copper).

[TidaLWaveZ]

39 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

3xxx : heat issues due to bad TIM, causing plenty of people to de-lid their 3770K

4xxx : major overheating issues with some of the models, the 4770K being so bad that they released the 4970K

5xxx : Lots of bad X99 motherboards

6xxx : the substrate on the Skylake CPUs was so thin that there were plenty of articles about how the CPUs were bending under the weight of aftermarket coolers.  Also needing a microcode update to fix hyperthreading issues

7xxx : same hyperthreading issues as above. 

 

 

 

The whole line is not flawed because of certain bad experiences that individual users have and in all honesty I've never experienced any of the problems you've listed and I've owned 3/5 iterations.

 

4770k was an extremely successful processor, the first page of ratings/reviews alone from google are all 5 stars and I don't know where you heard that about the 4790k having to replace the 4770k but I've never heard anything like that and the 4790k bumps all clock speeds .5Ghz

 

As for X99, I've messed with over 5 boards and I own 2 and I've never had a single issue nor have any of my peers who also have been on X99 since damn near it's release. X99-A,X-99 Deluxe(and Deluxe 3.1),MSI Kraken, X99 FTW, X99A Tomahawk. On top of that my overclocking on haswell-e has been absolutely tremendous. I've had one 5820k hit 4.8 across multiple boards and the other do 4.6. My close friends 5900k does just as well if not better.

 

Skylake another extremely successful line, notably the 6700k that I've heard nothing but good things about overclocking, another 4.8ghz on water with much better single core performance.

 

I don't know what you're comparing these lines to, but theres no better alternatives and the more I see it the less I believe that I've just been lucky that I've never experienced any drastic hardware problems I see perpetuated across the media. In nearly 15 years I've never experienced any of the nightmares people bring forth within media from a single CPU,GPU,Mobo,Drive ETC regardless of brand and I am certainly addicted to getting new hardware to the point where I almost get a processor and GPU in every high end series and I throw almost all my hardware through the fire, stressing and overclocking on air and water.

 

If you have a certain basis for comparison maybe that would clear things up, but I just don't see it.

[Brainless906]

So i havent managed to go through all the 6 pages yet but I feel like this will devolve into what the last "x299 chips are hot" post was.

 

"This chip runs hot"

"lol no it doesnt run hot! you're just not using a custom loop that costs as much as your cpu to cool it"

"s....so it runs hot is what your saying"

"lol no they just didnt use big enuff coolers"

 

So this vrm doenst run hot guys. Your jsut an idiot for not liquid cooling your vrm.

 

EDIT: lol an sure enough, thats almost exactly what it boiled down to. Nice.

 

[PCGuy_5960]

2 minutes ago, Brainless906 said:

So this vrm doenst run hot guys, only if you get a low/mid end board and overclock a 7900X to 5Ghz using 1.35V. And you can fix the issue by removing the heatsink and adding a fan

FIFY

[Brainless906]

23 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

FIFY

lol  300 and 489, 350  289-350 usd motherboards are  low/mid range motherboards.

 

What a world we live in.

 

He notes that some of these boards were throttling under 4.5/4.6ghz loads as well and for boards these expensive its absurd.

 

Buy a 1k cpu and an almost 300-500 dollar motherboard and cant even overclock properly.

[PCGuy_5960]

2 minutes ago, Brainless906 said:

lol a 300 and 489, 350 usd motherboards are  low/mid range motherboards.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145015

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132993

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144053

They cost $280-350 and for HEDT that's low/mid end. X399 boards won't be cheap either

3 minutes ago, Brainless906 said:

Buy a 1k cpu and an almost 300-500 dollar motherboard and cant even overclock properly.

If you buy a $400 Aorus Gaming5 or a $500 Aorus Gaming7 you won't run into those issues. (They have a larger VRM cooler)

 

And did you even watch the video? He said that if you remove the heatsink and use a fan to cool the VRM, temps are 100% normal, so if you want you can buy a $300 motherboard and overclock the 7900X to its max, you just have to replace the heatsink with a fan.....

[Brainless906]

10 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145015

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132993

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144053

They cost $280-350 and for HEDT that's low/mid end. X399 boards won't be cheap either

If you buy a $400 Aorus Gaming5 or a $500 Aorus Gaming7 you won't run into those issues. (They have a larger VRM cooler)

 

And did you even watch the video? He said that if you remove the heatsink and use a fan to cool the VRM, temps are 100% normal, so if you want you can buy a $300 motherboard and overclock the 7900X to its max, you just have to replace the heatsink with a fan.....

 

So i can either buy a 300 dollar motherboard and modify it or spend half of the cost of my cpu on a board? I take everything back.

 

Best. Platform. Ever.

 

and to the max is a bit of an overstatement as in the middle of the video he was talking about it throttling down FROM 4.5/4.6 at 1.25v not the 5.0ghz you claimed in your previews comment. He was using the chip he got to 5.0ghz but it was running at 4.5/4.6 and throttling hard. He never mentions how far he got it with the "modified" boards with the fans as far as what i watched.


Is this the end of the world? no.

 

Is it hella silly? Yes i'd say so.

[done12many2]

Just now, Brainless906 said:

 

So i can either buy a 300 dollar motherboard and modify it or spend half of the cost of my cpu on a board? I take everything back.

 

Best. Platform. Ever.

 

and to the max is a bit of an overstatement as in the middle of the video he was talking about it throttling down FROM 4.5/4.6 at 1.25v not the 5.0ghz you claimed in your previews comment. He was using the chip he got to 5.0ghz but it was running at 4.5/4.6 and throttling hard.

 

So you'll be buying Threadripper instead?  

 

I plan on running Skylake-X and Threadripper myself and can't say that I'm surprised that lower end x299 boards went cheap on VRM cooling.  Same thing happens with each platform.  As I mentioned earlier, my son's cheap z170 board throttles high overclocks on CPUs once the VRM gets hot.  Cheap board and I wasn't surprised.

[PCGuy_5960]

3 minutes ago, Brainless906 said:

So i can either buy a 300 dollar motherboard and modify it or spend half of the cost of my cpu on a board? I take everything back.

Modifying it? LOL, just remove the heatsink and put a fan over the VRM, it's that simple

4 minutes ago, Brainless906 said:

and to the max is a bit of an overstatement as in the middle of the video he was talking about it throttling down FROM 4.5/4.6 at 1.25v 

My bad, but still, I doubt that there are a lot of people who will buy the 7900X and get a $300-350 board to overclock it.

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Modifying it? LOL, just remove the heatsink and put a fan over the VRM, it's that simple

 

You don't even need to remove the heatsink.  The make very small blower style fans that I've used for this purpose on x99 boards when pushing high overclocks.  Plug the fan in and set it up at the right angle and turn it on and off via the MB's fan controller within Windows. Easy fix for cheap boards. 

 

1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

My bad, but still, I doubt that there are a lot of people who will buy the 7900X and get a $300-350 board to overclock it.

 

Or you could just keep your overclocks reasonable and inline with the ability of the lower end board.  How about just running it at 4.2 to 4.4 GHz instead of thinking a $300 x299 board should be able to do everything a $600 x299 board can do?