[UPDATED] Der8auer States Some X299 Low End boards Have Bad VRM Coolers

[Bleedingyamato]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

They make some great PSUs for sure.  I have one in my x99 rig.

I love that the one I put in a build for my friend was cube shaped.  It was short enough front to back to fit better in the Corsair Spec-M2 mATX case I used.  That thing is a decent case but it sucks for length of PSU it can use.  At least if you plan on leaving the HDD cage in place.  

[VagabondWraith]

6 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

They make some great PSUs for sure.  I have one in my x99 rig.

Going to sell my Platinum in a few months and pick up the new Titanium 1000w. Not that I need to, but damn I've had my eyeballs on that since release. IIRC, only the 3rd(?) PSU JohnnyGuru gave a perfect 10.

[DoctorWho1975]

2 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

VRM design is the easiest thing to do on a board and they easily have done it enough times to be able to copy paste from another board on to X299.  Second, they make higher end X299 boards with better heatpiped VRM heatsinks, so this was clearly a cost-cut-corner-cut problem.  The only reason to blame Intel in this is because hey it's the hip thing to do this summer.

 

Third, it's the 10 core.  The 6950X has already *been* there.  This isn't a sudden "oh here's 18 cores #dealwithit".

Wow, its that easy, just copy and paste... whew, shouldnt you be working at these board makers? Of course there is also an issue of parts availability with Intel's NOW FUCKING NOW release schedule. 

[Foxxer]

He has a valid point. 

It's clearly Intel's fault giving little to no headroom for development. 

[TahoeDust]

I'll be interested to see how my Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7 does.  It is heat-piped and has the 8+8 setup.

[DoctorZeus]

lul single 8 pin with a 10 core. really spits in the face of the upgradeability angle intel is going for. although, "budget" boards can and do hold back non budget chips. really though throw me a friggin 4 pin too. 

[VagabondWraith]

Edrick at Andantech:

 

Ok, had only a few hours tonight to break in my new rig, but here are my initial impressions and test results.

Stock (4Ghz all cores) - voltages set to Auto
- Very stable, and efficient. No problem OCing RAM to 3200mhz with no required bump to IMC or NB voltages.
- Ran Prime95 (FMA-AVX2) for 10 minutes using option that generates the most heat. Results are as follows: 
VCore: 1.05v
Max Core Temp: 61C
Max VRM Temp: 60C
142 watts

Mild OC (4.2Ghz all cores) - voltages set to Auto
- Ran Prime95 (FMA-AVX2) for 10 minutes using option that generates the most heat. Results are as follows: 
VCore: 1.10v
Max Core Temp: 67C
Max VRM Temp: 64C
151 watts

Did not have time to go any higher tonight. But to be honest, I was happy with my 6600K at 4.2Ghz (which required 1.25v to achieve), so I think I may eventually land back here as my 24/7 speed.

The Good
- Stable out of the box. Much better experience than with my z170x MB on release day two years ago. It took 3 BIOS updates later to even OC my RAM to 3000mhz. With the X299, OCing RAM to 3200 was a snap (even with an immature BIOS).

- Very energy efficient at stock and low OC speeds. Less voltage and runs cooler than my 6600K at the same speeds. I think this is a large part due to 14nm+.

- Different offsets for AVX and AVX-512. This can really help achieve better OC results in my opinion.

The Bad
- Northbrige runs at 2.4Ghz regardless of CPU speed. And unlike all past platforms, this speed is not changeable in the BIOS. Maybe this is simply a Gigabyte BIOS issue, but there is no place to change that stock value.

- You can not disable the AVX offset. You either have to choose a value from 1 to 31 (1 being 100mhz less than CPU frequency) or choose AUTO (which sets the offset to 300mhz). So you can never run AVX code at CPU speeds. Again, this may be fixed in later BIOS updates and not be a limitation of the platform itself.

- NVMe drives running slow. Same drives on a Z170 MB were running much faster (see my post above). Using the same test program (Aida64) and same drives, speed decreased by over 1000MBps. This may be an Aida issue or again a BIOS issue. I will try other tests tomorrow.

The Ugly
- None yet. But other people's reviews of the 7900X is concerning. 

Thoughts
So far I am happy. I expected issues as an early adopter so I am not concerned with the few issues I have found. I am also not experiencing the same heat/power/vrm issues with the 7820X as others are having with the 7900X. I will do more testing tomorrow after work.

[done12many2]

Just now, TahoeDust said:

I'll be interested to see how my Gigabyte Aorus Gaming 7 does.  It is heat-piped and has the 8+8 setup.

 

I wouldn't doubt that it will be fine. 

 

If you look at the heatsinks that were used on all of the mid to low end boards in der8auer's video, you'll notice that they are very simple and unimpressive. 

 

My x99 board uses a far beefier heatsink than any of those and x99 doesn't come close in power consumed by the CPU. 

 

This is pretty clearly a case of MB manufactures saving a few bucks.  There was plenty of time to add some of the garbage they put on these boards. 

[Marinatall_Ironside]

6 hours ago, Hunter259 said:

And threadripper will likely have the same issues at launch. Great job all around.

AMD's reference power specification requires an 8-pin and 4-pin, hence why some board makes like Asus with their upcoming Zenith Extreme opted to upgrade to dual 8-pin connectors.

 

And some motherboard makers with more affordable options are going with the aforementioned 8-pin and 4-pin CPU connectors, which is minimal requirement to properly power the CPU.

[SCHISCHKA]

if you have to water cool your VRM you may as well mineral cool the whole thing

[TahoeDust]

12 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

I wouldn't doubt that it will be fine. 

 

I would think it would be ok.  I have not had it in hand, but it looks pretty solid...

 

[tom_w141]

8 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 platform plagued with memory issues and unoptimized definitely qualifies as "rushed", but I guess that depends on what company you root for

Sorry I first saw this thread right before going to bed and missed any response.

 

I agree Ryzen was also rushed but because TR was planned and not brought forward and is Ryzen based (literally) it shouldn't have launch issues similar to Ryzen. Hence my original post.

[You_are_a_cunt]

WAIT A DAMN MINUTE!

 

Wasn't AMD the hot one? _/s

 

Anyway, 100C VRM? Tha's no gud, son. Tha's no gud at all. 

[tom_w141]

8 hours ago, done12many2 said:

its never as big of a problem as select few on LTT every review make them out to be

Fixed  

[corsairian]

9 hours ago, Lord Nicoll said:

I did this in such a hurry to beat anyone else I had to spend 2 minutes correcting bad grammar and actually adding a valid opinion 

Join the club. I had that problem with my old account trying to post. Lol

[tom_w141]

7 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Also, people used beefy-VRM requirement for FX-8000 series as an argument against the platform and AMD for creating such power-hungry CPUs, yet some comments here say it's a non-issue...

 

EDIT: That's, if what der8auer said really is an issue.

AMD do it = Scandalous

Intel do it = Acceptable/Feature ("Yay now I get to watercool my VRM" Or buy a $400 motherboard)

Learn the LTT standards  

 

6 hours ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Also, holy balls that's hot. Why should I have to buy a monoblock just to use my CPU. Plus if anyone is thinking you're OCing an 18 core to 4.5GHz.. just no, you were never going to be able to do that this year.

18 core will have very low clock speeds otherwise it's simply not going to run.

35 minutes ago, revsilverspine said:

WAIT A DAMN MINUTE!

 

Wasn't AMD the hot one? _/s

 

Anyway, 100C VRM? Tha's no gud, son. Tha's no gud at all. 

They were but see above

[Morgan MLGman]

7 hours ago, Clanscorpia said:

Because these chips can perform better than an i5.

That doesn't make it any better...

 

7 hours ago, Clanscorpia said:

And because these arent going in peoples rigs who dont need more than a 500B

That's actually even worse... This platform is so f*cked up I don't even... Why couldn't they wait and fine-tune it so there are no stupid issues like that when you buy a 10-core CPU + mobo for 1300-1400USD?

What's worse? It's only about 10-cores, what about the 18-core chip which is almost double the cores? Will it have only select, specially tailored motherboards that support it and Intel fans will call it a "feature" instead of a fuck-up?

[19_blackie_73]

Intels statement:

"YOU SHALL NOT OVERCLOCK"

[Dabombinable]

15 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

That doesn't make it any better...

 

That's actually even worse... This platform is so f*cked up I don't even... Why couldn't they wait and fine-tune it so there are no stupid issues like that when you buy a 10-core CPU + mobo for 1300-1400USD?

What's worse? It's only about 10-cores, what about the 18-core chip which is almost double the cores? Will it have only select, specially tailored motherboards that support it and Intel fans will call it a "feature" instead of a fuck-up?

At least the CPU won't be sold at $1000 initially...while being outperformed by one that is under half the price and with close to a quarter of the power consumption.

[tom_w141]

6 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

At least the CPU won't be sold at $1000 initially...while being outperformed by one that is under half the price and with close to a quarter of the power consumption.

What CPU is outperforming it? I fully expect the 16 core TR to cost less and trash it but I don't think any current CPU is outperforming it. It's slightly ahead in most tests, though does trade blows with the 6950X in some tests which some say is a result of the changes to L2&L3 cache this generation.

[Dabombinable]

1 minute ago, tom_w141 said:

What CPU is outperforming it? I fully expect the 16 core TR to cost less and trash it but I don't think any current CPU is outperforming it. It's slightly ahead in most tests, though does trade blows with the 6950X in some tests which some say is a result of the changes to L2&L3 cache this generation.

I'm referring to the "oh shit my motherboard is on fire" AMD FX 9590. Which launched at $1000, consumes upwards of 220W of power, and was flogged by consumer level i7.

[tom_w141]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

I'm referring to the "oh shit my motherboard is on fire" AMD FX 9590. Which launched at $1000, consumes upwards of 220W of power, and was flogged by consumer level i7.

Oh I see  $1000 was the confusing part  I was like this cpu is $1000+ at least for now  

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 hour ago, tom_w141 said:

Oh I see  $1000 was the confusing part  I was like this cpu is $1000+ at least for now  

This thread has derailed so far that you can't simply assume posts are related to OP in any way  

[tom_w141]

3 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

This thread has derailed so far that you can't simply assume posts are related to OP in any way  

Intel fans do that ASAP, to get the conversation going in any other direction that doesn't reflect badly on infallible Intel. Pages 1-3 and some 5 are relevant though. Page 4 is 100% unrelated power supply discussion. A 3 page derailment is a new personal best for them I think  Though if you comment on it the response will be that they are able to discuss anything they like regardless of thread topic.

[Dabombinable]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

Intel fans do that ASAP, to get the conversation going in any other direction that doesn't reflect badly on infallible Intel. Pages 1-3 and some 5 are relevant though. Page 4 is 100% unrelated power supply discussion. A 3 page derailment is a new personal best for them I think  Though if you comment on it the response will be that they are able to discuss anything they like regardless of thread topic.

Its the same thing as what we've seen in the past: Manufacturer releases CPU with very high power consumption>only boards with high quality VRM/well cooled VRM can handle them>motherboard throttles/can shit itself/will shit itself when run with the power hungry CPU. Though this isn't happening on an old+cheap (if you only ever count 9590 as highly binned 8350) platform but one that will cost several thousand dollars (so its actually worse than that other time).