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Underglass fingerprint sensor demoed at MWC Shanghai

WMGroomAK
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With all the rumors floating around about new Apple products integrating fingerprint sensors below the screen, Qualcomm and Vivo have sort of beat them to the punch with a demo at MWC Shanghai where two demo units of Vivo's Xplay 6 (looks very similar to a Samsung Galaxy Edge) showed off the use of an underscreen and underglass/metal fingerprint sensor.  Qualcomm has developed an ultrasonic fingerprint sensor that will be able to read a fingerprint underneath about a 1200 um OLED display, 800 um glass display or 650 um of aluminum.  Qualcomm is planning to ship their Fingerprint sensor for glass and metal this month to OEMs and should  be able to be integrated into devices using Snapdragon 630 & 660 processors.  Their fingerprint sensor for displays are supposed to ship as commercial samples to OEMs in Q4 this year and should be compatible for upcoming Snapdragon and non-Snapdragon units.

 

https://www.engadget.com/2017/06/28/vivo-qualcomm-under-display-fingerprint-reader/

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Even though it was Xiaomi who got to use Qualcomm's previous-gen "Sense ID" solution on its Mi 5s, this time the chip maker is letting Vivo get first dibs. Over at Vivo's booth, I got to play with a prototype -- based on the existing Xplay6 -- fitted with Qualcomm's under-display fingerprint scanner. The demo started off with a familiar fingerprint registration process, except I had to place my finger on a marked area on the screen, which was just above the old fingerprint button. Once done, I was able to unlock the phone by touching that same spot using my registered finger; and just to be sure, I tried with my other fingers which fortunately failed to unlock the device.

 

While the solution seemed to work as advertised, I found the fingerprint recognition speed to be noticeably slower -- about one second between first touch and entering home screen -- than the near-instantaneous unlock that I'm used to on most recent smartphones. I was also slightly disappointed by how small the recognition area was. That said, Vivo's demonstrators told me that in theory, the same sensing technology could be applied across the entire screen, but that would significantly increase production cost; instead, Vivo might eventually cover just the bottom half of the screen, which would still be better than what the demo offered.

vivo-under-display-fingerprint.gif.ffafbed2e44b133bf8c57b92d3392deb.gif

 

So it might be interesting to see if the next iteration of the iPhone will end up coming out first with a sensor embedded in the display using a proprietary Apple Tech, if Apple licenses more Qualcomm bits to get this to market first or if another manufacturer ends up pushing it out first.  Any bets on how long before we begin seeing the first lawsuits on this?

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Ooooh thats pretty cool, finally to do away with a under button sensor or worse one on the back of the phone dedicated to just your finger.

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According to tech repair people this makes the phone unrepairable. Sooo don't break the screen I guess

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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4 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

According to tech repair people this makes the phone unrepairable. Sooo don't break the screen I guess

That's a good point.  Apple already makes it difficult with their home buttons.  Having the screen itself be the sensor....is going to make things difficult at best.

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Prety impressive, but I'm wondering about the resolution of the sensor. Given the wavelength of sultrasonic sound is several cm, I'm not sure how they get sub mm resolution. And I don't like to gove my finger print to any phone manufacturer. So it's useless for me anyway.

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52 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

So it might be interesting to see if the next iteration of the iPhone will end up coming out first with a sensor embedded in the display using a proprietary Apple Tech, if Apple licenses more Qualcomm bits to get this to market first or if another manufacturer ends up pushing it out first.  Any bets on how long before we begin seeing the first lawsuits on this?

I wont hold my breath that Apple will ever use a Qualcomm made fingerprint ID tech even if it's something bolted into the touchscreen. Apple acquired Authentec back in July 2012 which led to the TouchID in the iPhone 5s and beyond. Apple may have something similar up in their sleeves but it's definitely not from Qualcomm. 

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6 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

-snip-

Especially since they seem to have some long term grudge against them xD.

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8 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I wont hold my breath that Apple will ever use a Qualcomm made fingerprint ID tech even if it's something bolted into the touchscreen. Apple acquired Authentec back in July 2012 which led to the TouchID in the iPhone 5s and beyond. Apple may have something similar up in their sleeves but it's definitely not from Qualcomm. 

Also Samsung, they're working with Synaptics, according to leaks they have it working they just have an issue with screen brightness.

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42 minutes ago, Stefan1024 said:

And I don't like to gove my finger print to any phone manufacturer. So it's useless for me anyway.

While I agree, when I went to set a PIN code for my S7 Active, it literally forced me to add my fingerprint just to create a PIN.

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5 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

While I agree, when I went to set a PIN code for my S7 Active, it literally forced me to add my fingerprint just to create a PIN.

Except using fingerprints is entirely optional but OK.

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I think built in fingerprint scanner into the touchscreen means no more overpriced screen protectors. 

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6 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I think built in fingerprint scanner into the touchscreen means no more overpriced screen protectors. 

I have to admit that not being able to put a screen protector over my highly priced phone is a concern for me...  While I've never had a scratched or cracked screen and all my phones have ended up in really good condition when I'm done with them, part of that is usually because I immediately get a plastic screen cover and something like a Pelican case or Otterbox on them as I know my lifestyle puts me in the back country for extended periods of time.

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What irks me is knowing that, if Apple unveils an iPhone with an under-the-screen fingerprint reader in September, people are still going to insist "Apple copied Qualcomm!" as if it could design and ship similar technology within a few months.  Folks: it's possible for companies to develop similar tech simultaneously without being explicitly aware of what their rivals are doing.

 

I still have flashbacks to the revisionist history of a few years ago, when some people insisted that Apple copied the LG Prada.  Yep, Apple designed an entire phone and its operating system within a few months, even though the device it was supposedly copying didn't even ship until after the iPhone announcement.

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14 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

I have to admit that not being able to put a screen protector over my highly priced phone is a concern for me.

Same. No matter how careful someone is there is always micro scratches that you can see in certain light. I have never seen or have had a perfect screen after a year of use. 

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1 hour ago, Commodus said:

What irks me is knowing that, if Apple unveils an iPhone with an under-the-screen fingerprint reader in September, people are still going to insist "Apple copied Qualcomm!" as if it could design and ship similar technology within a few months.  Folks: it's possible for companies to develop similar tech simultaneously without being explicitly aware of what their rivals are doing.

 

I still have flashbacks to the revisionist history of a few years ago, when some people insisted that Apple copied the LG Prada.  Yep, Apple designed an entire phone and its operating system within a few months, even though the device it was supposedly copying didn't even ship until after the iPhone announcement.

What irks me even more is that if Apple unveils a phone with an under-the-screen fingerprint scanner in September, people are still going to insist that they were the first with it and Qualcomm/Samsung/HTC/whomever just copied Apple.

Both sides are guilty of the "only one person/company can think of something around the same time" mentality. The only difference is that Apple would go around and sue companies based on that stupid idea.

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so gimmicky. it causes more problems than it solves imo. i would rather see a sensor embedded in the side of the phone like those old laptops had. usable when screen down or up so nobody can complain about that. but maybe that has severe problems idk.

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1 minute ago, tlink said:

so gimmicky. it causes more problems than it solves imo. i would rather see a sensor embedded in the side of the phone like those old laptops had. usable when screen down or up so nobody can complain about that. but maybe that has severe problems idk.

Not sure what type of sensor you were thinking of, but Sony added the fingerprint sensor to the power button, which was located on the side.

I don't know how well it worked though.

 

But yeah I will probably agree with you. This seems like a really complex solution to something that don't really need to be an issue. If this comes at the cost of sensor accuracy or screen quality then I don't think it will be worth it.

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13 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Not sure what type of sensor you were thinking of, but Sony added the fingerprint sensor to the power button, which was located on the side.

I don't know how well it worked though.

 

But yeah I will probably agree with you. This seems like a really complex solution to something that don't really need to be an issue. If this comes at the cost of sensor accuracy or screen quality then I don't think it will be worth it.

yea thats exactly what i mean! like, years of engineering went into what would be a practical place for human fingers to interface quickly and intuitively with the phone without having to move or even look at the phone, just embed it there instead of trying to find a new practical place for it.

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3 hours ago, tlink said:

yea thats exactly what i mean! like, years of engineering went into what would be a practical place for human fingers to interface quickly and intuitively with the phone without having to move or even look at the phone, just embed it there instead of trying to find a new practical place for it.

Side is not the way to go. it's way to small to make an accurate reading of the entire finger. You'll need to hold your phone the exact same way, all the time.

I know some old laptops who have a fingerprint sensor that was small, which you had to slide your finger across, well that's crap on a phone's side. Don't know if you meant those though.

As for the "Gimmicky" part. Having more screen real estate is not really gimmicky. It's basically what the next "smartphone battle" is all about. Or as Luke likes to call it, Aboat.

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6 hours ago, DildorTheDecent said:

Except using fingerprints is entirely optional but OK.

Except that it didn't give me the option of skipping that part.  In order to set a PIN, it required I use the fingerprint scanner.  Unless there was some hidden option to bypass it that I wasn't able to see.

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10 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Same. No matter how careful someone is there is always micro scratches that you can see in certain light. I have never seen or have had a perfect screen after a year of use. 

I have a 4 year old phone with perfect screen, never even once used a screen proctor on it, it does have a plastic case with bumps on the front which prevents the screen touching surfaces when laying screen down though

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6 hours ago, Trustadz said:

Side is not the way to go. it's way to small to make an accurate reading of the entire finger. You'll need to hold your phone the exact same way, all the time.

I know some old laptops who have a fingerprint sensor that was small, which you had to slide your finger across, well that's crap on a phone's side. Don't know if you meant those though.

As for the "Gimmicky" part. Having more screen real estate is not really gimmicky. It's basically what the next "smartphone battle" is all about. Or as Luke likes to call it, Aboat.

its gimmicky because the sensor is impractical behind the screen, not because a bigger screen is gimmicky. and the sensors in the power button from xperia z5 has very little complains about inaccuracy, i don't see anything to support your claims. fingerprint locks aren't meant to be completely foolproof anyways because they are really easy to fool. its meant so not everyone can just unlock it, and that is what it will achieve.

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11 hours ago, Jito463 said:

Except that it didn't give me the option of skipping that part.  In order to set a PIN, it required I use the fingerprint scanner.  Unless there was some hidden option to bypass it that I wasn't able to see.

You really don't have to use fingerprints. 

 

Tested on S7 Edge.

Our Grace. The Feathered One. He shows us the way. His bob is majestic and shows us the path. Follow unto his guidance and His example. He knows the one true path. Our Saviour. Our Grace. Our Father Birb has taught us with His humble heart and gentle wing the way of the bob. Let us show Him our reverence and follow in His example. The True Path of the Feathered One. ~ Dimboble-dubabob III

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