7900X Coming In Hot?!

[Morgan MLGman]

10 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

4GHz. Even the crappiest Skylake-X CPU without a delid can overclock to 4.5Ghz with just 1.2V and with 10% or so better IPC

That's just not true, basically the entire statement is wrong besides maybe the IPC part... You know the 4GHz part is wrong because it's not the "max OC" for Ryzen, you can call it an average-good OC but definitely not the max, or I've had some kind of hallucinations for the past few months seeing people hit more than 4.0GHz, even here on the forum...

The part about even the crappiest Skylake-X CPUs without delliding can do 4,5GHz with 1.2 is wrong too... Clearly, since the first post of this thread claims that GN had to pump 1.275V to get to 4,5GHz, and at what cost at that, how could it be true...

 

Testing in custom loop (whoever suggested it in this post earlier) is an absurd idea, do you know how many people have custom loops compared to the rest of cooling solutions? A remarkably small %. They're also called "Custom" for a reason, that almost every single one is different from the other in some way, how would it be a good measure if you can't even compare two setups? A top-end AIO (which a Kraken X62 is) is a much better way of comparing performance. More people use similar AIOs, an average person can check how much they're better/worse than their own cooling solution and then take an educated guess at the expected performance. That'd be a lot harder and unrealistic when using a custom loop for comparing temperatures.

 

I'm sorry but I read it entirely, and this thread is flooded with posts that make no sense because they're pretty much on the verge of being fanboy-ish.... And when someone with "Intel / Nvidia Enthusiast" in their member title writes stuff like this I get triggered...:

12 hours ago, VagabondWraith said:

I'll live with it. Performance is what I'm looking for. Temperatures be damned.  Would it had been nice if they soldered? I suppose. But I refuse to settle for an inferior product for lower temps.  

 

The temps are a nice tradeoff for much higher performance (for me).

See, wanna know the signs of being pro-Intel? (don't wanna use the F word here) For instance, what the heck does "settling for an inferior product for lower temps" mean? Threadripper is not even out yet... How can you judge that it's going to be an inferior product? Because the top CPU will have 2 more cores cause people at Intel panicked and pulled it out of their asses without even any specs at Computex besides the core count and the prices? Or because it has higher IPC than Threadripper? Yeah, then a Pentium G4560 is definitely better than a 6950X because Kaby has higher IPC than Broadwell

Last part, much higher performance? What do you define by 'much higher'? Suprise suprise, it won't be much higher. Not, when judging by what we know so far about both architectures.

Some time ago it was "OMG AMD CPUS ARE SPACE HEATERS, THEY WILL MELT YOUR PC AND MAKE YOU BANKRUPT FOR THE POWER BILL", now suddenly when Intel has the less efficient CPUs with higher temps and TDPs those exactly same people conveniently skip the efficiency talk saying that it's suddenly irrelevant.

 

Both architectures have their pros and cons, but you already judged that TR will be an inferior product before it even launched because of your loyalty to Intel. You should buy what's the best for the money you wanna spend on hardware, not based on what brand it has on the IHS. Note that I use Intel CPUs myself as I own an i7-6700K and an i7-5820K. That doesn't make them the best though.

 

Not even mentioning this post...

10 hours ago, VagabondWraith said:

Ryzen will still get it's ass kicked in each product segment.

You know there's basically no reason to buy i5s because of Ryzen 5 and even i7s are far less appealing when for a lower price you can get double the cores with R7 lineup with only a few % lower IPC? Intel is taxing people that much because they can, I can understand that from a business point of view but that doesn't mean you have to agree with it and support such mentality. Intel also almost literally told everyone "Yeah, we intentionally held back CPU progress because we wanted to get as much money as possible", have you heard about Core i9, modern HT Pentiums, unlocked i3s, i5s for HEDT, 6-core next-gen mainstream CPUs and 18 core HEDT Intel CPUs before Ryzen was about to launch? Yeah, me neither. Could they release something like that with previous gens? Obviously.

Instead we got a 0% better IPC 7th gen Kaby Lake over its predecessor with a bit higher clock speeds and claims of 15% performance improvement. 15% my ass.

 

TL;DR What's the point of even discussing this thread if your mind is already set on something, and you're just (sometimes ridiculously) defending the CPU with issues?

Ryzen had issues too, many. Probably still has some, it's a new platform and it's to be expected, same with X299 and there's nothing wrong with that.

Just don't brainlessly argue with people that the Skylake-X and X299 launch are the best and good buys because they're not, at least when you take cost and value into consideration which is one of the most important parts of a purchase decision. Especially keeping in mind that you need RAID keys for specific RAID setups which are widely used in HEDT and you're forced to pay somewhere in the region of 99$ for RAID 1, 249$ for RAID 5 and if you even think about using RAID 0, you need to buy Intel-branded SSDs for it to work at all and also heavy limitations of PCI lanes as you need to pay at least 1000$ for the CPU alone to get more than 28 PCI lanes.

 

 

 

@Pohernori summed threads like this one up very well:

7 hours ago, Pohernori said:

Summary of intel threads lately

 

> Review: "Great chip, runs hot"

> Blue Camp: "beats ryzen, thats all that matters" 

The best part is, Ryzen is not even meant to compete with X299 as it would undermine the position of Threadripper & X399 on the market. But that doesn't matter as X299 beats Ryzen! Kappa.

 

[tom_w141]

Quote

The part about even the crappiest Skylake-X CPUs without delliding can do 4,5GHz with 1.2 is wrong too... Clearly, since the first post of this thread claims that GN had to pump 1.275V to get to 4,5GHz, and at what cost at that, how could it be true...

Agreed and remember these are review samples provided by Intel so you would expect these have all been pre checked and cherry picked. The average chip might require more than 1.275V so even more heat.

 

Quote

See, wanna know the signs of being pro-Intel? (don't wanna use the F word here) For instance, what the heck does "settling for an inferior product for lower temps" mean? Threadripper is not even out yet...

He is referring to Ryzen not TR which as I have stated numerous times and you have yourself further down in the above post that AM4 doesn't compete against X299, X399 competes against X299. Which as you said isn't out yet. Look at the progression of this thread. Pages 1-2 are about the OP and discussing the thermal issues. 3-5 are mostly off topic and autistic screeching saying doesn't matter all metrics apart from performance don't matter. So many times I have tried to steer this thread back on topic its crazy.

 

Quote

Some time ago it was "OMG AMD CPUS ARE SPACE HEATERS, THEY WILL MELT YOUR PC AND MAKE YOU BANKRUPT FOR THE POWER BILL", now suddenly when Intel has the less efficient CPUs with higher temps and TDPs those exactly same people conveniently skip the efficiency talk saying that it's suddenly irrelevant.

Yep I mentioned this previously and got destroyed because its not AMD this time. #BlindLoyalty

 

Quote

TL;DR What's the point of even discussing this thread if your mind is already set on something, and you're just (sometimes ridiculously) defending the CPU with issues?

Couldn't agree more, there are some comments that didn't even read/watch OP they saw a negative X299 title and were already mounting its defence.

 

Quote

Just don't brainlessly argue with people that the Skylake-X and X299 launch are the best and good buys because they're not, at least when you take cost and value into consideration which is one of the most important parts of a purchase decision.

Oh no you said it. You mentioned value. Tell your family you love them and run, there is still time to save yourself if you leave now. They hate that word. The "iTz All aBOut PerFoRManCe nOt VAluE" gang will be storming in shortly.

 

Quote

Especially keeping in mind that you need RAID keys for specific RAID setups which are widely used in HEDT and you're forced to pay somewhere in the region of 99$ for RAID 1, 249$ for RAID 5 and if you even think about using RAID 0, you need to buy Intel-branded SSDs for it to work at all and also heavy limitations of PCI lanes as you need to pay at least 1000$ for the CPU alone to get more than 28 PCI lanes.

Yeah but AVX512 /s

 

Quote

The best part is, Ryzen is not even meant to compete with X299 as it would undermine the position of Threadripper & X399 on the market. But that doesn't matter as X299 beats Ryzen! Kappa.

I've said so numerous times in this thread they won't listen to you  They will compare a $280 to a $600/$1000 CPU all day long.

 

@Morgan MLGman Oversight of manual quotes they don't notify you of anything  My bad for being a noob, ty @leadeater

[leadeater]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

-snip-

You can do proper partial quoting by highlighting the text you want to quote and a tool-tip will popup that you can click to quote it, this means the person you are quoting gets a notification.

[tom_w141]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

You can do proper partial quoting by highlighting the text you want to quote and a tool-tip will popup that you can click to quote it, this means the person you are quoting gets a notification.

TIL  ty

[Princess Luna]

Intel tells consumers not to overclock their i7 7700k, bad temps registered every where, TIM is crappy, no we(Intel) do not know how to solder, Skylake-X coming in as hot as ever in the literal sense, What did AMD always beat Intel? High Temperatures all hail the FX-9590 king! Until now apparently...

 

Gains on overclocking are so small and not "for free gains" as it used to be with Intel any more from all those expensive OC boards around etc...

 

Then people still often wonder why don't I bother with OC any more and keep buying locked processors, saves quite the buck and at the end of the day it's all the damn same thing... sorta.

[Nicnac]

Now it's intel overheating?! What a time to be alive!☺️??

[tom_w141]

5 minutes ago, Nicnac said:

Now it's intel overheating?! What a time to be alive!☺️??

Get a CPU -> Case heatsink, rotate case on to side, use connected side as a hot plate, bam bacon and eggs while you work. No need to even get up from your desk.

[Nicnac]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

Get a CPU -> Case heatsink, rotate case on to side, use connected side as a hot plate, bam bacon and eggs while you work.

Sizzzzzling

[tom_w141]

1 minute ago, Nicnac said:

Sizzzzzling

Looking forward to the 12 core in august wonder if they can crack 90 degrees at stock.

[Scionyde]

Man, maybe I'm over-inferring, but after reading this thread I can't help but feel there's a lot of passive aggression between two camps of enthusiasts. It's still civil, but I can see the resentment simmering just under the surface.

[tom_w141]

4 minutes ago, Scionyde said:

Man, maybe I'm over-inferring, but after reading this thread I can't help but feel there's a lot of passive aggression between two camps of enthusiasts. It's still civil, but I can see the resentment simmering just under the surface.

Holding companies accountable for their bullshittery is one of few ways to prevent it in future (AMD got shit for running hot and now they are very efficient, soldered and cool running). If X299 is enough of a thermal disaster then maybe they will go back to soldering the CPUs for the next HEDT gen like they did for X99. The purpose of this thread is more to serve as a warning to those considering buying one of these CPUs and the cost overheads involved in taming the beast (much more than the just the CPU cost), the alternative is sending them in blind and them being potentially disappointed/annoyed.

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

the alternative is sending them in blind and them being potentially disappointed/annoyed/charred.

You missed one.

[bigneo]

16 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

I didn't even have to click on the thread to know who had posted it @tom_w141

 

You don't have to click on the thread cuz OP name is just below the Thread name :P

 

 

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, bigneo said:

You don't have to click on the thread cuz OP name is just below the Thread name

 

 

Also,                                                                                                                                                               hey look it's me ^ 

[TacoSenpai]

So do we now have to go through and edit all of those memes and jokes about AMD being space heaters and Intel now being space heaters?  Shiiiiitttt.....

[tom_w141]

5 minutes ago, LordTaco42 said:

So do we now have to go through and edit all of those memes and jokes about AMD being space heaters and Intel now being space heaters?  Shiiiiitttt.....

It's going to be an all-nighter  

[leadeater]

9 minutes ago, LordTaco42 said:

So do we now have to go through and edit all of those memes and jokes about AMD being space heaters and Intel now being space heaters?  Shiiiiitttt.....

We could just all unite and shit on IBM for their Power 8 CPUs being 190W and 247W turbo

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9193/the-xeon-e78800-v3-review/6

 

Quote

So in total the Intel CPU plus memory buffers have a 201W TDP (165W CPU + 4x9W Jordan Creek 2), while the IBM platform has at best a 270W TDP (190W CPU+ 4x20W MBC).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9193/the-xeon-e78800-v3-review/6

[PCGuy_5960]

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

That's just not true, basically the entire statement is wrong besides maybe the IPC part... You know the 4GHz part is wrong because it's not the "max OC" for Ryzen, you can call it an average-good OC but definitely not the max, or I've had some kind of hallucinations for the past few months seeing people hit more than 4.0GHz, even here on the forum...

Average OCs for Ryzen:

http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/ryzen_7_1800x/

http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/ryzen_7_1700x/

http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/ryzen_7_1700/

http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/ryzen_5_1600x/

http://hwbot.org/hardware/processor/ryzen_5_1600/

As you can see they are between 3.9-4GHz. Very few Ryzen CPUs can go higher than 4GHz and even if they do they can't go higher than 4.1GHz

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

The part about even the crappiest Skylake-X CPUs without delliding can do 4,5GHz with 1.2 is wrong too... Clearly, since the first post of this thread claims that GN had to pump 1.275V to get to 4,5GHz, and at what cost at that, how could it be true...

I was mostly talking about the 7820X and the 7800X and so far it looks like 4.5GHz is possible with 1.2-1.25V. And if you delid them you should be able to push them to 4.8-5GHz

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Some time ago it was "OMG AMD CPUS ARE SPACE HEATERS, THEY WILL MELT YOUR PC AND MAKE YOU BANKRUPT FOR THE POWER BILL", now suddenly when Intel has the less efficient CPUs with higher temps and TDPs those exactly same people conveniently skip the efficiency talk saying that it's suddenly irrelevant.

Well, the 9590 wasn't efficient, but performance sucked. Power consumption isn't important if performance is there  BTW, power consumption on Skylake-X is a result of AVX-512. If AVX is used, (for example if you use Prime95 with AVX) power consumption skyrockets. If you don't use AVX power consumption is much more reasonable

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Especially keeping in mind that you need RAID keys for specific RAID setups which are widely used in HEDT 

You can have NVMe RAID using the chipset lanes....

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Or because it has higher IPC than Threadripper?

Higher IPC and higher clocks. Threadripper will probably not be able to overclock higher than 4.1GHz, so if you need a CPU than has top notch single core and good multicore performance, Skylake-X is a better option

1 hour ago, tom_w141 said:

Agreed and remember these are review samples provided by Intel so you would expect these have all been pre checked and cherry picked. The average chip might require more than 1.275V so even more heat.

We'll see. I am pretty sure that the average chips will be able to get 4.4-4.5Ghz at 1.25-1.3V

1 hour ago, tom_w141 said:

Oh no you said it. You mentioned value. Tell your family you love them and run, there is still time to save yourself if you leave now. They hate that word. The "iTz All aBOut PerFoRManCe nOt VAluE" gang will be storming in shortly.

All I care about is maximum performance. If AMD performed better, I would not even consider X299

2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

The best part is, Ryzen is not even meant to compete with X299 as it would undermine the position of Threadripper & X399 on the market. But that doesn't matter as X299 beats Ryzen! Kappa.

So people shouldn't compare the 7700K to the 7900X? Because one is mainstream and the other is HEDT? I agree that the 7900X isn't meant to compete with Ryzen, but the 7820X and the 7800X definitely are....

19 minutes ago, bigneo said:

You don't have to click on the thread cuz OP name is just below the Thread name

I meant that as soon as I read the thread's title I knew who had posted it.

[tom_w141]

6 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

We'll see. I am pretty sure that the average chips will be able to get 4.4-4.5Ghz at 1.25-1.3V

That voltage range is where the high temps are. If GN were 90+ at 1.275 then that is a very small voltage range to play with before temps increase (1.25-1.275V)

 

6 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

but the 7820X and the 7800X definitely are....

X299 socket so no they aren't. Higher core count coffeelakes and future mainstream CPUs will compete with Ryzen. It's easier to understand if you use price or sockets: X299 with X399 and AM4 with LGA115X. Or $280 to $305 1700 to 7700k and $849 to $999 TR to i9.

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

That voltage range is where the high temps are. If GN were 90+ at 1.275 then that is a very small voltage range to play with before temps increase (1.25-1.275V)

With the 7900X, the 7820X and the 7800X run a lot cooler

Just now, tom_w141 said:

X299 so no they aren't. Higher core count coffeelakes and future mainstream CPUs will compete with Ryzen. It's easier to understand if you use price or sockets: X299 with X399 and AM4 with LGA115X. Or $280 to $305 1700 to 7700k and $849 to $999 TR to i9.

I don't get that.... When Ryzen first launched everyone was comparing them to X99 and saying just how good they are. Based on what you are saying, this comparison is unfair because X99 is HEDT and Ryzen is mainstream and people should only be comparing Ryzen to Z270. 

[tom_w141]

6 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

With the 7900X, the 7820X and the 7800X run a lot cooler

OC3D encountered dangerous temps at 1.3 so the 7820X isn't much better. 7800X with only 6 cores may stand a better chance but based on how hot a 7700k can get I don't have much faith there either.

 

6 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

I don't get that.... When Ryzen first launched everyone was comparing them to X99 and saying just how good they are. Based on what you are saying, this comparison is unfair because X99 is HEDT and Ryzen is mainstream and people should only be comparing Ryzen to Z270. 

The difference there was a mainstream CPU could go toe to toe with a HEDT platform so of course it was used in comparisons. However AMD compared the 1700 against the 7700k so it was clearly aimed to compete at mainstream they just showcased it being competitive with HEDT at the time. It is not up there with the Intel HEDT anymore in terms of performance which is fine but it wasn't aimed to beat the new Intel HEDT which is the whole reason they have TR coming.

[leadeater]

11 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

As you can see they are between 3.9-4GHz. Very few Ryzen CPUs can go higher than 4GHz and even if they do they can't go higher than 4.1GHz

Unless you throw LN2 at it but GL using that as an every day computer

 

http://hwbot.org/benchmark/cpu_frequency/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_5392&cores=8#start=0#interval=20

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

With the 7900X, the 7820X and the 7800X run a lot cooler

I don't get that.... When Ryzen first launched everyone was comparing them to X99 and saying just how good they are. Based on what you are saying, this comparison is unfair because X99 is HEDT and Ryzen is mainstream and people should only be comparing Ryzen to Z270. 

yes I believe R7 should mostly be compared to z270, or more or less its price bracket. R7 reaches into the x99/x299 area but it is not directly competing there.

[XenosTech]

25 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

yes I believe R7 should mostly be compared to z270, or more or less its price bracket. R7 reaches into the x99/x299 area but it is not directly competing there.

Not to mention a review had a slide where the 7820x was marginally better than the r7's. I'll haveto look for the article or the person who posted it and quote them

[leadeater]

Editted, quoted wrong one.

 

4 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

The difference there was a mainstream CPU could go toe to toe with a HEDT platform so of course it was used in comparisons. However AMD compared the 1700 against the 7700k so it was clearly aimed to compete at mainstream they just showcased it being competitive with HEDT at the time. It is not up there with the Intel HEDT anymore in terms of performance which is fine but it wasn't aimed to beat the new Intel HEDT which is the whole reason they have TR coming.

You're forgetting AMD themselves compared Ryzen 7 to Intel 6900K.