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7900X Coming In Hot?!

tom_w141
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Posted
5 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

Not quite. 

With more rads in general the water can be kept at a lower temp overall. So the load temp over a period of time will be lower than any AIO. 

But it seems the problem is heat from the die cannot effectively transfer to the IHS.

 

You can add more rad space to a custom loop. However I doubt you can drop the temp from 95C to below 80C. GN uses a 280mm AIO and max fan speed, which has plenty of capacity to dissipate 300w of heat already.

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Posted
Just now, Pohernori said:

Summary of intel threads lately

 

> Review: "Great chip, runs hot"

> Blue Camp: "beats ryzen, thats all that matters" 

beats ryzen, with double the cost. :)

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Posted
Just now, Deli said:

beats ryzen, with double the cost. :)

 

it doesn't matter even if the chip costs $999999

 

as long as it beats Ryzen

i5 2400 | ASUS RTX 4090 TUF OC | Seasonic 1200W Prime Gold | WD Green 120gb | WD Blue 1tb | some ram | a random case

 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Pohernori said:

 

it doesn't matter even if the chip costs $999999

 

as long as it beats Ryzen

CPU is twice as expensive, mobo is more expensive. Don't forget you need to buy a new delid tools from Der Bauer. And an custom loop as expensive as the CPU to keep it cool. :)

 

Who is the space heater now?

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Posted

Most people don't know this but when intel had it's huge layoffs they laid off all the highly paid veterans that had been working their for many years and replaced them with cheaper, in theory the same knowledge employees, but in reality they aren't. My friends dad worked at Intel for over 20 years and they just laid him off during the round and now he works for global foundries. It might not be apparent now due to how long it takes to develop chips but they might have made a mistake.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted
Just now, Deli said:

CPU is twice as expensive, mobo is more expensive. Don't forget you need to buy a new delid tools from Der Bauer. And an custom loop as expensive as the CPU to keep it cool. :)

 

Welllll I guess you don't really need a custom loop anymore if its delidded

 

But then again, there's no such thing as value, AS LONG AS IT BEATS RYZEN

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11 minutes ago, Pohernori said:

 

it doesn't matter even if the chip costs $999999

 

as long as it beats Ryzen

You don't even realize how much people would pay for a top 1% binned chip.  The god chip 7700k could do 5.5Ghz on water. 

 

14 minutes ago, Deli said:

But it seems the problem is heat from the die cannot effectively transfer to the IHS.

 

You can add more rad space to a custom loop. However I doubt you can drop the temp from 95C to below 80C. GN uses a 280mm AIO and max fan speed, which has plenty of capacity to dissipate 300w of heat already.

 

The computation isnt too complicated.  You want to be as close to the die as possible with the highest thermal transfer materials possible. 

 

Compute the weighted average thermal transfer  rate of the sandwich of materials and multiply it by the total sandwich thickness. Don't think of it in terms of individual layers transferring heat to each other.   Thermal pastes usually don't affect temperatures much because they're spread so thin they don't affect the weighed average of transfer much. 

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1 minute ago, Pohernori said:

 

Welllll I guess you don't really need a custom loop anymore if its delidded

 

But then again, there's no such thing as value, AS LONG AS IT BEATS RYZEN

Waiting to see how many people kill their 7900X when delidding. So many small components near the edge of the PCB.

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Just now, AnonymousGuy said:

You don't even realize how much people would pay for a top 1% binned chip.  The god chip 7700k could do 5.5Ghz on water. 

 

What? Why wouldn't I realize how much a "personally" binned chip would cost? 

Its like buying the only turtle that can talk. Who wouldn't pay top dollar?

The cost doesn't matter as long as it beats Ryzen

 

2 minutes ago, Deli said:

Waiting to see how many people kill their 7900X when delidding. So many small components near the edge of the PCB.

 

I'd pay der8auer to do it for me with a chip like that. 

 

i5 2400 | ASUS RTX 4090 TUF OC | Seasonic 1200W Prime Gold | WD Green 120gb | WD Blue 1tb | some ram | a random case

 

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1 hour ago, The Benjamins said:

The blocks cooling potential is limited more rads will not make the block cool any better, but will allow the heat grabbed by the liquid to escape. so a top tier AIO can be just as good as a loop. it is just a custom loop allows for more parts to be cooled.

A good block with high water flow will be able to transfer plenty of heat for larger RAD surface areas to make a difference, both flow speed and airflow make a huge difference though so you don't just slap in more RAD area to get better cooling as it might not actually be the factor you need to adjust to lower component temperature.

 

Also one should never try and go passive cooling unless you're a total silence freak and have the case for it, I never turn my PC off and it's less than a meter away from where I my head is when I'm asleep.

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5 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

You don't even realize how much people would pay for a top 1% binned chip.  The god chip 7700k could do 5.5Ghz on water. 

 

 

The computation isnt too complicated.  You want to be as close to the die as possible with the highest thermal transfer materials possible. 

 

Compute the weighted average thermal transfer  rate of the sandwich of materials and multiply it by the total sandwich thickness. Don't think of it in terms of individual layers transferring heat to each other.   Thermal pastes usually don't affect temperatures much because they're spread so thin they don't affect the weighed average of transfer much. 

I want to wait for more reviews and analysis why the chip run so hot. Is it because Intel uses shitty TIM, or bad assemble with the gap between the die and the IHS too big. Or just the chip is extremely power hungry therefore generate very high temp??

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1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Considering 3x 480mm (63mm deep) RADs can passively (no fans) cool an OC'd 4930k and two 290X's yes, surface area makes a huge difference.

Wait, really?

.

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Just now, AlwaysFSX said:

Wait, really?

Yep, GPUs under gaming load for about 6+ hours sits at about 60C. Room temp does make a difference after that sort of time period but plenty of room to move before thermal throttling comes in to play.

 

It's a rather dumb thing to try and do tbh though, just 1 EKWB FF5 fan going at min drops the temps by about 10C lol.

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1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Yep, GPUs under gaming load for about 6+ hours sits at about 60C. Room temp does make a difference after that sort of time period but plenty of room to move before thermal throttling comes in to play.

 

It's a rather dumb thing to try and do tbh though, just 1 EKWB FF5 fan going at min drops the temps by about 10C lol.

So that's actually a viable idea.. Wow. Thanks for the info. xD

.

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7 minutes ago, Deli said:

I want to wait for more reviews and analysis why the chip run so hot. Is it because Intel uses shitty TIM, or bad assemble with the gap between the die and the IHS too big. Or just the chip is extremely power hungry therefore generate very high temp??

We have 2 years with the Skylake chips. We know what a single Skylake core runs at for thermals.  That's not really the issue.

 

The issue is the base clocks for the Skylake-X CPUs:

 

Quote

i7-7800X 3.5 Ghz  Boost 4.3
i7-7820X 3.6 Ghz  Boost 4.3
i7-7900X 3.3 Ghz  Boost 4.0

 

Everyone is talking about running this CPUs at an automatic 1 Ghz overlock. In the case of the 7900X, people are trying to get 1.7 Ghz OCs. Great, the CPU might do it. How terrible of a Price/Performance or any type of Cost Analysis are we talking about.  "It's a great CPU once you delid it, massively OC it and use a custom water loop".   I know we're into the Enthusiast realm, but that's why it's running so hot.  Everyone wants to run these things at 50% OCs and then complain about the TIM.

 

The TIM is fine for what Intel is doing, as it'll run stable at Stock for years.  Solder clearly causes them to lose CPUs in the process, which on their really expensive SKUs is a worry.  With AMD's Zen package costing $30 each, they can lose some without it costing them anything much.

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9 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Don't really care cause delidding anyawys.

 

Butttttt testing with close loop piece of shit AIO's is a turn off.  Put a custom loop on it so we can see the behavior on a more standardized "best case" cooling setup and then people can extrapolate downwards if they use an AIO.

Just like most people won't drop 2k on an 18 core CPU when a 16 core will be available for $850, most people don't do custom loops.  Those that do are in a huge minority.

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What still bothers me is that we now have 7th gen HEDT with Skylake and Kaby Lake at the same time

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I'm not really sure why but I'm having a hard time trying to keep track of everything in this product launch. It's probably because there is an asterisk next to everything.

[Out-of-date] Want to learn how to make your own custom Windows 10 image?

 

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24 minutes ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

I'm not really sure why but I'm having a hard time trying to keep track of everything in this product launch. It's probably because there is an asterisk next to everything.

1500x1500px-LL-10cbbf4e_i5i7i9.jpeg

 

I've had that open in a tab I check every time I chat on the topic. The product stack gets too confusing otherwise.

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4 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

We have 2 years with the Skylake chips. We know what a single Skylake core runs at for thermals.  That's not really the issue.

 

The issue is the base clocks for the Skylake-X CPUs:

 

 

Everyone is talking about running this CPUs at an automatic 1 Ghz overlock. In the case of the 7900X, people are trying to get 1.7 Ghz OCs. Great, the CPU might do it. How terrible of a Price/Performance or any type of Cost Analysis are we talking about.  "It's a great CPU once you delid it, massively OC it and use a custom water loop".   I know we're into the Enthusiast realm, but that's why it's running so hot.  Everyone wants to run these things at 50% OCs and then complain about the TIM.

 

The TIM is fine for what Intel is doing, as it'll run stable at Stock for years.  Solder clearly causes them to lose CPUs in the process, which on their really expensive SKUs is a worry.  With AMD's Zen package costing $30 each, they can lose some without it costing them anything much.

When looking at overclocks a lot of people look at boost not base as the processor will stay at boost the whole time if they need it to. So for example going from 4.3 to 4.5 before encountering thermal issues is disappointing in the eyes of an overclocker (that isn't willing to risk all that money on a delid). Using their TIM and saying its great for longevity is such a crap excuse, they know HEDT users are more likely to overclock AND are more likely to upgrade before the chip dies because being the best is part of the HEDT attitude so making a chip last 15 years is shit and they should be soldered. That excuse may be acceptable on the mainstream as plenty of non enthusiasts buy those, but not on HEDT. Also with regard to stock apparently its not great at stock either according to GN. "North of 90 degrees with stock not being much lower". It amazes me that Intel push out a product that runs probably high 70s - low 80s at stock and are happy with themselves, such blatant profiteering... I genuinely feel bad for all the guys going X299 now because the minimum cost is now the following:

 

Stock - Decent 240mm+ AIO ($120+), CPU (Assume 7820X most common so $599), motherboard (~$230 for low end), 4 sticks of RAM (assuming they actually want to make use of quad channel ~$250) = ~$1200

 

Mild OC (<4.7) - Top Tier 280mm/360mm AIO ($160+), CPU (Assume 7820X most common so $599), motherboard (~$230 for low end), 4 sticks of RAM (assuming they actually want to make use of quad channel ~$250), good case air flow (~$40) = ~$1300

 

Higher OC (4.7+) - Delid ($?+ potential new CPU), Custom Loop (CPU only ~ $350 CPU), CPU (Assume 7820X most common so $599), motherboard (~$230 for low end), 4 sticks of RAM (assuming they actually want to make use of quad channel ~$250), good case airflow ($40) = ~$1470-2070 (depending on if your delid kills the CPU).

 

Disclaimer: Before someone says "iTz All aBOut PerFoRManCe nOt VAluE" I am not saying don't buy I'm just pointing out some ballpark minimum figures to get your rig up and running as its not just a case of "any cooler will do".

My Ryzen P State Overclocking Guide | Cookie Cutter Mid-Range Gaming Build (2017)

 

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39 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

When looking at overclocks a lot of people look at boost not base as the processor will stay at boost the whole time if they need it to. So for example going from 4.3 to 4.5 before encountering thermal issues is disappointing in the eyes of an overclocker (that isn't willing to risk all that money on a delid). Using their TIM and saying its great for longevity is such a crap excuse, they know HEDT users are more likely to overclock AND are more likely to upgrade before the chip dies because being the best is part of the HEDT attitude so making a chip last 15 years is shit and they should be soldered. That excuse may be acceptable on the mainstream as plenty of non enthusiasts buy those, but not on HEDT. Also with regard to stock apparently its not great at stock either according to GN. "North of 90 degrees with stock not being much lower". It amazes me that Intel push out a product that runs probably high 70s - low 80s at stock and are happy with themselves, such blatant profiteering... I genuinely feel bad for all the guys going X299 now because the minimum cost is now the following:

 

Stock - Decent 240mm+ AIO ($120+), CPU (Assume 7820X most common so $599), motherboard (~$230 for low end), 4 sticks of RAM (assuming they actually want to make use of quad channel ~$250) = ~$1200

 

Mild OC (<4.7) - Top Tier 280mm/360mm AIO ($160+), CPU (Assume 7820X most common so $599), motherboard (~$230 for low end), 4 sticks of RAM (assuming they actually want to make use of quad channel ~$250), good case air flow (~$40) = ~$1300

 

Higher OC (4.7+) - Delid ($?+ potential new CPU), Custom Loop (CPU only ~ $350 CPU), CPU (Assume 7820X most common so $599), motherboard (~$230 for low end), 4 sticks of RAM (assuming they actually want to make use of quad channel ~$250), good case airflow ($40) = ~$1470-2070 (depending on if your delid kills the CPU).

 

Disclaimer: Before someone says "iTz All aBOut PerFoRManCe nOt VAluE" I am not saying don't buy I'm just pointing out some ballpark minimum figures to get your rig up and running as its not just a case of "any cooler will do".

I'm not disagreeing, but from Intel's perspective it's the most logical choice. HEDT exists in a weird place as it is, so the ones that want to run high OC are on their own anyway. They've got that segment of the market by the balls already, they can complain all they want, they're going to still have to buy Intel to get a specific type of performance that they desire.

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2 hours ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

I'm not really sure why but I'm having a hard time trying to keep track of everything in this product launch. It's probably because there is an asterisk next to everything.

Most important things you need to know about X299 according to Intel marketing:

1. How you will be able to "mega-task"

2. "12K" gaming that won't be possible on the likes of a 7700k

3. Superior dual 16x GPU utilisation vs peasant 2 8x SLI

4. It will be great for VR

 

Spoiler

1. New made up word with no definition. A survey probably showed people respond better to "mega" than "multi"

2. Has no standard yet but Intel define it as 3 4k monitors side by side, as GN states in another video the closest real monitor to that is 6k and of course a cpu makes no difference as that is GPU territory, a Pentium would be fine for this.

3. GN tested this the gain is 2-3% hardly worth the $1000 and not something a 7700k/R7 couldn't do in 2 8x.

4. GN tested it in VR the difference was not present and a blind test would make it impossible to tell the 7900X, 7700k and R7 1700 apart.

 

Yay marketing?

 

 

My Ryzen P State Overclocking Guide | Cookie Cutter Mid-Range Gaming Build (2017)

 

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