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PCIe 5.0?

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PCI-SIC accelerates the creation of PCIe 5.0

 

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Source: https://www.overclock3d.net/news/misc_hardware/pci-sic_accelerates_the_creation_of_pcie_5_0/1

 

 

PCIe 5.0 will enable users to get more bandwidth out of fewer PCIe lanes and enable the creation of faster PCIe devices, allowing 400Gb/s Ethernet solutions to be created for servers or to reduce the PCIe requirements of modern M.2, U.2 or PCIe storage devices. 

 

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At the PCI-SIG Developers Conference, the organisation announced that they were accelerating the development of PCIe 5.0, which is designed to offer 128GB/s of total bandwidth, 4x that of PCIe 3.0 when both are using x16 links. 
 
Right now, PCI-SIG expects to complete their PCIe 5.0 standard sometime in 2019, with the organisation already releasing version 0.3 of the standard to their members.  

 

So with GPUs not even saturating the bandwidth of a current 3.0 x16 slot, I can only wonder what this will do to SSDs...

 

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inb4 ppl saying you need pcie 5.0 to fully utilize a Titan Xp because it will bottleneck af

 

perfrel_1920_1080.pngperfrel_2560_1440.pngperfrel_3840_2160.png

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Why do we need pcie 5.0.when our gpu can even saturate, i don't know pcie 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, blah, blah, blah.

Like shaddup

 

Technology moves forward whether you benefit from it or not. 

When pcie10 comes out, some will repeat the same response as they did back then when pcie 3.0 was out.

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9 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Why do we need pcie 5.0.when our gpu can even saturate, i don't know pcie 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, blah, blah, blah.

Like shaddup

 

Technology moves forward whether you benefit from it or not. 

When pcie10 comes out, some will repeat the same response as they did back then when pcie 3.0 was out.

Server Tech, mostly.  That's where most of the PCIe channels are actually used.

 

PCIe 4.0 was laid down back in 2011, but it appears the control systems took a long time.

 

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1326922

 

Rev 0.7 was only sorted out in 2017, and there's some deep technical hurdles they had to deal with. Though there's a bunch of industry groups working on some other approaches.  This suggests things could get interesting in the future.

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12 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Technology moves forward whether you benefit from it or not. 

When pcie10 comes out, some will repeat the same response as they did back then when pcie 3.0 was out.

Bingo.  Too many folks on LTT (and other places) think in a very myopic PC-centered way.  PCs and x86-based servers use a lot of the same technology today, including PCI-E.  And if those servers need to move massive amounts of data through themselves, the PCI-E 3.0 bus is a bottleneck.  It's a massive one, too.

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14 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Why do we need pcie 5.0.when our gpu can even saturate, i don't know pcie 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, blah, blah, blah.

Like shaddup

 

Technology moves forward whether you benefit from it or not. 

When pcie10 comes out, some will repeat the same response as they did back then when pcie 3.0 was out.

This forum is pretty set in the "My use case is the only use case" mentality.   So for them the fact that GPUs don't use all of the current bandwidth is all that matters.  

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3 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

PCIe 4.0 was laid down back in 2011, but it appears the control systems took a long time.

 

 

Seems like Displayport is heading in this direction too...

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I don't think this will benefit graphics cards as much as it will benefit motherboards who want to have a lot of features.

As soon as you start adding features to a board you fairly quickly run out of PCIe lanes. 

M.2

10Gbps Ethernet.

802.11ac (or 802.11ad)

A few PCIe slots

A bunch of SATA ports

USB 3.1

 

For the mainstream chipsets that only have like 24 lanes, that is a problem.

I mean, just look at what a massive premium Intel wants you to pay for more PCIe lanes on LGA 2011-3. It's like 200 dollars or something for an extra 20 lanes or so. 

 

Edit: And it will of course have data center applications, but it will benefit regular users too.

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This will be amazing for storage and off cpu compute components. Granted the normal user wont see any benefit in this for a very very long time (unless nvidia decides to remove the bridge/link) but on the professional side this would be amazing. You're talking about 10gb NICs that could run on single lanes. storage array performance would go through the roof because you're no longer limited by bus speeds if all the PCIE lanes it needs are going to be going direct to the cpu. If you're looking for something like Threadripper's 64 lanes, you're talking a mind bending amount of IO performance.

 

Though just because they are working on the spec now doesn't mean we will get it for even 5 years, and it will be a while after that before we see things that truly utilize it.

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Looks like PCIe 4.0, at the consumer level, should come with Icelake in H2 2018 with Icelake. Probably not until 2020 for AMD, since they're in on AM4 for the time being. (They can update their Server or HEDT stack if they feel the need.)

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This would be an amazing addition for HEDT and Servers espectially that would require NVMe storage and a 10Gb+ ethernet adapter, as an example. For Datacenters that use SSD's for caching or storing their VM's having that higher bandwidth capacity will help tremendously for any type of migration from power drops or data replication/building, plus more NVMe SSD's means another great storage solution for even faster IOPs and response times :D

Even in a server farm that has just about every available slot filled with gfx cards for mass calculations, it would be useful as the chipset could have higher bandwidth or a higher NIC port count and/or lanes for NVMe drives for caching or possibly for a storage pool VSAN type of environment.

Can't wait to see this stuff come out :D

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I hope AMD releases AM4+ next year with PCie  5.0 and Zen +  4-10 cores cpus on 10-14nm enhanced, thats when im going to upgrade

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this will be sweet, haveing GPUs that can run 1080p games only needing a 4x slot and SSDs that just need a single PCIe lane is going to be so awesome

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Well shit, PCIe 3.0 16x is 32GB/s, so that means PCIe 5.0 16x would be 128GB/s, at that point you're quite a bit past current RAM bandwidth.

 

Good luck saturating that! :P

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4 minutes ago, TheKDub said:

Well shit, PCIe 3.0 16x is 32GB/s, so that means PCIe 5.0 16x would be 128GB/s, at that point you're quite a bit past current RAM bandwidth.

 

Good luck saturating that! :P

5-6 years out.  Given previous PCIe specs, probably closer to 7 years to market. By then, some things could saturate it.

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1 hour ago, yian88 said:

I hope AMD releases AM4+ next year with PCie  5.0 and Zen +  4-10 cores cpus on 10-14nm enhanced, thats when im going to upgrade

PCIe 5.0 next year would be insane. Way too expensive. Even PCIe 4.0 is debatable. 

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3 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

PCIe 5.0 next year would be insane.

And not doable.  The standard for 5.0 isn't due until 2019.

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Feature-packed motherboards for the stingy cpu vendor that keeps to a mere 16 lanes. 

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The idea is to do more with less lanes. More lanes means more hardware and more processing in the controller, leading to more complex designs and more costly silicon. Fewer high power lanes may have their own issues, but on average 20 high speed lanes would be easier to implement than 80 low speed lanes.

 

It also leads to lower power use, at least in theory.

 

The idea behind pushing up PCIe 5.0 on the consumer side is not so much for your GPU as to enable good quality high speed m.2 and u.2 drives to run at full speed of a x1 connection rather than a x4.

 

They're pushing up PCIe 5.0 specifically because PCIe 4.0 is so iffy right now. There's a very good possibility that on the consumer side we won't even see PCIe 4.0, and it'll jump straight to 5.0 because 4.0 doesn't have much of a benefit to users.

 

PCIe 3.0 x16 is more than enough for even the most powerful GPUs on the consumer side and the move to PCIe 4.0 for a x8 link at full speed or x4 at nearly full speed isn't worth the cost trade-off in any way. Honestly I don't expect consumer side GPUs to move away from PCIe 3.0 anytime soon, especially with Quad and Tri SLI and Crossfire not really being much of a thing anymore.

 

I'll also just quickly point out that the cost crossover for NVMe-PCIe controllers vs AHCI-SATA controllers is expected to be late 2018 or early 2019 according to Samsung's presentation for the 960 evo and pro. I'll let you decide if it's just a coincidence that the industry is trying to push for a more efficient PCIe standard to come out right around the time where PCIe SSDs will reach price parity with SATA SSDs

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