Apple Updates its Mac lineup: External GPU support, Kaby lake and a new iMac Pro

[PCGuy_5960]

11 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Not to mention the $5000 version is for the ENTRY level device.... the top end one is probably going to be MANY thousand dollars more.

 

There is no way to spin this to be other than a huge ripoff.

 

And it WILL thermal throttle.

Spot on!

[79wjd]

26 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Not to mention the $5000 version is for the ENTRY level device.... the top end one is probably going to be MANY thousand dollars more.

 

There is no way to spin this to be other than a huge ripoff.

 

And it WILL thermal throttle.

The base $5000 model isn't a huge ripoff, it's priced pretty decently considering you can build something comparable for around $3500 but even a comparable prebuilt desktop would end up around the $5000 mark. That all ignores the fact that compact AIOs have always been at a price premium regardless. Whether the higher end models are ripoffs is possible, but it's also yet to be seen as we have absolutely ZERO information about how they will be priced. 

 

It MAY thermal throttle. It's not released and we have no idea what Apple did with the cooling. There is an excellent chance it will throttle due to the nature of an AIO design, but there is also the possibility that it won't. For all you know, the fans spin at 12,000rpm. Again, it's not even available for pre-order and so there is no way you can know whether or not it will throttle or how much it will throttle if it does.

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Even if you use Windows 10 Pro, it still costs less than $4600. And this consumer Nvidia card kicks ass and believe me, it's going to outperform the "future" pro AMD part. (FYI, Vega was supposed to be released a year ago, so it technically is a 2016 card)

Anyways, here is a $4700 that kicks the Mac Pro's ass. Which decisions are flawed about this build?:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2699 V4 2.2GHz 22-Core OEM/Tray Processor  ($1756.00 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($24.88 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: ASRock - X99 Extreme3 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($146.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Kingston - ValueRAM 32GB (4 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2400 Memory  ($345.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1.0TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($579.99 @ Dell Small Business) 
Case: Fractal Design - Define S ATX Mid Tower Case  ($79.99 @ NCIX US) 
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($99.89 @ OutletPC) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($132.89 @ OutletPC) 
Monitor: HP - Z27q 27.0" 5120x2880 60Hz Monitor  ($909.98 @ Directron) 
Other: Future AMD Pro part card thing ($700.00)
Total: $4776.59
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-07 15:17 EDT-0400

What features?

That's a better build, but one problem: you're wildly underestimating the cost of a pro graphics card.  Do you know how much a Quadro P5000 (the pro parallel to the GTX 1080) costs?  About $2,000.  Even the P4000 is about $820 at Amazon, at last check.  You could be right, but you could also be off the mark by a thousand dollars.

 

And features?  Well, for starters: webcam, speakers, mouse, keyboard (you can question the value of the webcam and speakers, but they're included and sometimes useful).  It's not clear how quiet or noisy a Hyper 212 Evo is when strapped to a 22-core Xeon is as quiet as Apple's custom cooling system, and that does matter to certain pros.  There aren't any assembly costs; there are no warranties or support costs beyond those for the individual parts.

 

In short, you're treating the construction of a pro workstation as if Apple was a college student putting together a sick Battlegrounds rig to replace an old PC.  There's no connection to real life.  There is a chance that Apple's pricing still won't be favorable, but you don't know.  You're projecting based on what you want to be true.

[mrchow19910319]

14 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

 

If people dedicated their whole life hating apple... let them be.. 

I've seen a lot of people on reddit who are exactly like them. Then they got a mac... Then their attitude changed... 

"How on earth are those tiny heat pipe not gonna cause thermal throttle. tell me." If I am a apple engineer, you think I will come to online forum to argue with you? 

Let them be... >.<

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, Commodus said:

It's not clear how quiet or noisy a Hyper 212 Evo is when strapped to a 22-core Xeon is as quiet as Apple's custom cooling system,

You're making the assumption that Apple's cooling solution is quiet. Historically that hasn't always been the case under heavy load.

[mrchow19910319]

7 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

 

Don't try to explain to them..... 

See Apple --------> bad. 

As long as this product is made by apple: --------->overpriced--------->bad

Anything apple related -------->bad

Anyone who uses apple's product--------> fanboy-------> bad

 

[79wjd]

Just now, mrchow19910319 said:

Don't try to explain to them..... 

See Apple --------> bad. 

As long as this product is made by apple: --------->overpriced--------->bad

Anything apple related -------->bad

Anyone who uses apple's product--------> fanboy-------> bad

 

That awkward moment when he was defending Apple.

[mrchow19910319]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

That awkward moment when he was defending Apple.

okay... i didnt read through the whole thing.... guess ima apple fanboy now. 

runs

 

I did not reply to your latest reply there. I was seeing you explain to people why a 5k imac may not be a rip off. 

[PCGuy_5960]

3 minutes ago, Commodus said:

That's a better build, but one problem: you're wildly underestimating the cost of a pro graphics card.  Do you know how much a Quadro P5000 (the pro parallel to the GTX 1080) costs?  About $2,000.  Even the P4000 is about $820 at Amazon, at last check.  You could be right, but you could also be off the mark by a thousand dollars.

The Quadro P5000 is the same thing as a 1080, so unless you really need 10 bit color or NVlink, purchasing the quadro makes no sense.

6 minutes ago, Commodus said:

And features?  Well, for starters: webcam, speakers, mouse, keyboard (you can question the value of the webcam and speakers, but they're included and sometimes useful).  It's not clear how quiet or noisy a Hyper 212 Evo is when strapped to a 22-core Xeon is as quiet as Apple's custom cooling system, and that does matter to certain pros.  

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2699 V4 2.2GHz 22-Core OEM/Tray Processor  ($1756.00 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Liquid CPU Cooler  ($158.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: ASRock - X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($149.99 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Kingston - 32GB (4 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory  ($388.46 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1.0TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($579.99 @ Dell Small Business) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB G1 ROCK Video Card  ($494.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Fractal Design - Define S ATX Mid Tower Case  ($79.99 @ NCIX US) 
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($99.89 @ OutletPC) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($132.89 @ OutletPC) 
Monitor: HP - Z27q 27.0" 5120x2880 60Hz Monitor  ($909.98 @ Directron) 
Keyboard: Corsair - K55 RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($49.99 @ Best Buy) 
Mouse: Logitech - MX Master Bluetooth Wireless Laser Mouse  ($61.99 @ Amazon) 
Other: Webcam ($100.00)
Total: $4963.14
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-07 17:10 EDT-0400

Fixed that

7 minutes ago, Commodus said:

There aren't any assembly costs; there are no warranties or support costs beyond those for the individual parts.

Of course, I simply said that a $5K PC would perform better

7 minutes ago, Commodus said:

In short, you're treating the construction of a pro workstation as if Apple was a college student putting together a sick Battlegrounds rig to replace an old PC.  There's no connection to real life.  There is a chance that Apple's pricing still won't be favorable, but you don't know.  You're projecting based on what you want to be true.

If you take into account the cost of the 5K display, then the price may be slightly justified, but based on the hardware it has, it's probably worth $3000.

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

The Quadro P5000 is the same thing as a 1080, so unless you really need 10 bit color or NVlink, purchasing the quadro makes no sense.

So the quadro makes sense in certain scenarios, just like the iMac Pro does for the same reason(s).

Quote

If you take into account the cost of the 5K display, then the price may be slightly justified, but based on the hardware it has, it's probably worth $3000.

If....really....if? If you take into account a $1000+ peripheral? 

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

TV studios loving this? What studio renders on set? Also if it needed to be done, big studios have tons of remote servers that handle the rendering that will render it much faster that a mac pro. And iMacs are still a pain in the ass to travel with because aluminum, glass and parts are still heavy and with no real place to grab but edges that dig into your hand makes it a pain in the ass. There are small cases that can fit the hardware that is in the mac pro and are easier to transport. Only extra thing you are carrying is a monitor. 

 

Also then you point out that @PCGuy_5960 choices are flawed because he chose home over pro? Really? And a 1080 will still kick ass over the cards that will be in the mac pro even if its a "future pro AMD card". But I still dont see your argument with "custom design with features you aren't going to get no matter how much you cross-shop". What features are you talking about? In an AIO. There are no features you cant get in a desktop

I said editing, not rendering.  That's an important distinction.  Also, I work for a company that has actually done this, and I know it's not alone.  Also, how do you think people carry PCs from site to site?  With an iMac, you'd just put it back into its shipping box and go.

 

I've already highlighted the problems with that build in a reply to PCGuy, so I won't repeat them in detail here... but the gist: he doesn't know how much workstation video cards cost, he excludes a number of basics, he ignores the specialized design and he doesn't factor in things like warranties.    He's approaching a pre-assembled workstation as if it were a custom gaming rig, and it's so off the mark it's funny.

[PCGuy_5960]

9 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

So the quadro makes sense in certain scenarios, just like the iMac Pro does for the same reason(s).

Literally everyone has been considering the cost of the 5k monitor as part of the value of the 5k iMac....

Yeah, I but I wouldn't buy any computer based on its display. If all you're looking for a 5K display with some decent hardware attached to it, then iMac Pro makes sense, but for pretty much everyone else, a 22 core PC makes way more sense

8 minutes ago, Commodus said:

he doesn't know how much workstation video cards cost, he excludes a number of basics, he ignores the specialized design and he doesn't factor in things like warranties.    He's approaching a pre-assembled workstation as if it were a custom gaming rig, and it's so off the mark it's funny.

But you also have to take into account that Apple doesn't pay full retail price for the hardware, so you are paying $1000-2000 more than the hardware itself is worth. Now if you're looking for an AiO with a very good display and some decent hardware, the iMac Pro makes sense.... But if all you care about is performance, a custom PC would make more sense.

That's basically all I am saying. Is the Mac Pro overpriced? Slightly, but not more than any prebuilt PC is

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yeah, I but I wouldn't buy any computer based on its display. If all you're looking for a 5K display with some decent hardware attached to it, then iMac Pro makes sense, but for pretty much everyone else, a 22 core PC makes way more sense

Unless you want a 5k display and you want a compact form factor. If you don't care about a 5k display then this entire thread is largely moot since it's comparing a build with a 5k display in it, a display which makes about just under a third of the total build cost.

 

Quote

Is the Mac Pro overpriced? Slightly, but not more than any prebuilt PC is

I don't think a single person in this thread has even tried to deny that. Of course a custom build will be cheaper, but it's also not a fair comparison for a multitude of reasons. And not being able to compete with a custom build doesn't make it inherently overpriced -- something is only overpriced if a comparable competing product can be had for (a decent amount) less. 

[Commodus]

18 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

The Quadro P5000 is the same thing as a 1080, so unless you really need 10 bit color or NVlink, purchasing the quadro makes no sense.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2699 V4 2.2GHz 22-Core OEM/Tray Processor  ($1756.00 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Liquid CPU Cooler  ($158.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: ASRock - X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($149.99 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Kingston - 32GB (4 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory  ($388.46 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1.0TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($579.99 @ Dell Small Business) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB G1 ROCK Video Card  ($494.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Fractal Design - Define S ATX Mid Tower Case  ($79.99 @ NCIX US) 
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($99.89 @ OutletPC) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($132.89 @ OutletPC) 
Monitor: HP - Z27q 27.0" 5120x2880 60Hz Monitor  ($909.98 @ Directron) 
Keyboard: Corsair - K55 RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($49.99 @ Best Buy) 
Mouse: Logitech - MX Master Bluetooth Wireless Laser Mouse  ($61.99 @ Amazon) 
Other: Webcam ($100.00)
Total: $4963.14
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-07 17:10 EDT-0400

Fixed that

Of course, I simply said that a $5K PC would perform better

If you take into account the cost of the 5K display, then the price may be slightly justified, but based on the hardware it has, it's probably worth $3000.

 

Tell 3D modelling pros that a Quadro P5000 is "the same thing" as a GTX 1080 and they'll laugh in your face.  Yes, the base chip is similar, but when's the last time a GTX 1080 shipped with 16GB of VRAM?  Or had drivers optimized for pro software?  Video editors and digital artists frequently need 10-bit color, by the way... this is a pro machine.

 

And when you say that a $5K PC would perform better, again... you don't know.  The iMac Pro doesn't ship until December.  It's likely using newer Xeon processors than the system you specced out; we don't know how the Vega graphics inside will perform.  This is also isn't factoring in software differences.  You're making a lot of assumptions that could easily fall apart when the finished system ships.

[PCGuy_5960]

1 minute ago, Commodus said:

Tell 3D modelling pros that a Quadro P5000 is "the same thing" as a GTX 1080 and they'll laugh in your face.  Yes, the base chip is similar, but when's the last time a GTX 1080 shipped with 16GB of VRAM?  Or had drivers optimized for pro software?  Video editors and digital artists frequently need 10-bit color, by the way... this is a pro machine.

The base model of the Mac Pro ships with an 8GB graphics card AFAIK...

2 minutes ago, Commodus said:

And when you say that a $5K PC would perform better, again... you don't know.  The iMac Pro doesn't ship until December.  It's likely using newer Xeon processors than the system you specced out; we don't know how the Vega graphics inside will perform.  This is also isn't factoring in software differences.  You're making a lot of assumptions that could easily fall apart when the finished system ships.

Yeah, let's wait for benchmarks and then we can revisit this topic  The Vega card will have launched by then so we should be able to get an apples to apples comparison (pun intended)

[Commodus]

Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

The base model of the Mac Pro ships with an 8GB graphics card AFAIK...

Yeah, let's wait for benchmarks and then we can revisit this topic  The Vega card will have launched by then so we should be able to get an apples to apples comparison (pun intended)

 

The current Mac Pro is also based on 2013-era hardware, so it's not exactly a great comparison.

 

You're right that we should wait for benchmarks... well, insofar as we can get comparable benchmarks, anyway.  One of the problems with video editing tests is that the software delivers wildly different results.  There's a good reason why so many YouTubers (Marques Brownlee, Jonathan Morrison and the like) use Macs for their creative work: it's because Final Cut Pro is ridiculously fast at processing video compared to Adobe Premiere.

 

Thanks for that previous statement on prebuilt PCs, by the way.  That's really my point -- that the iMac Pro looks like it will be fairly priced as a prebuilt PC, and most workstations tend to be prebuilt PCs (mainly due to ease of deployment and support).  Apple is also unique in making a high-end pro all-in-one, so it might have some added value for certain pros (such as the on-set editors I mentioned).  The comparisons get iffy when you compare the iMac Pro against a PCPartsPicker tower, because you don't usually see movie studios or architecture firms hand-assembling the systems they need for all their employees.

[Commodus]

51 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

You're making the assumption that Apple's cooling solution is quiet. Historically that hasn't always been the case under heavy load.

It's supposed to be quiet, anyway.  We'll have to see, but it's promising when Apple talks about it so much.  It might not be so willing to brag if it knew the system sounded like a jet engine the moment you gave it a heavy workload.

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, Commodus said:

You're right that we should wait for benchmarks... well, insofar as we can get comparable benchmarks, anyway.  One of the problems with video editing tests is that the software delivers wildly different results.  There's a good reason why so many YouTubers (Marques Brownlee, Jonathan Morrison and the like) use Macs for their creative work: it's because Final Cut Pro is ridiculously fast at processing video compared to Adobe Premiere.

100% agree, Final Cut Pro is soooooooooo well optimized! It makes $10K PCs using Adobe look like trash when compared to a $2K Mac.

2 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Thanks for that previous statement on prebuilt PCs, by the way.  That's really my point -- that the iMac Pro looks like it will be fairly priced as a prebuilt PC, and most workstations tend to be prebuilt PCs (mainly due to ease of deployment and support).  Apple is also unique in making a high-end pro all-in-one, so it might have some added value for certain pros (such as the on-set editors I mentioned).  The comparisons get iffy when you compare the iMac Pro against a PCPartsPicker tower, because you don't usually see movie studios or architecture firms hand-assembling the systems they need for all their employees.

Yeah, it's not that I hate Apple, I just dislike prebuilts in general, so I dismiss them.  

 

If you compare the iMac Pro to a prebuilt, it is very well priced. You can even argue that it is good value vs other prebuilts because of the custom software and the better looking chassis

[Mr.Meerkat]

2 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Here. The board that Apple is using is as bad as the Extreme3. But anyways, let's swap the board for a higher quality one, which is the AsRock X99 Extreme4 (uses the same components as the Extreme6 but lacks some of the bells and whistles) and let's add a Kraken X62:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2699 V4 2.2GHz 22-Core OEM/Tray Processor  ($1756.00 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Liquid CPU Cooler  ($158.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: ASRock - X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($149.99 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Kingston - 32GB (4 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory  ($388.46 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1.0TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($579.99 @ Dell Small Business) 
Case: Fractal Design - Define S ATX Mid Tower Case  ($79.99 @ NCIX US) 
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($99.89 @ OutletPC) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($132.89 @ OutletPC) 
Monitor: HP - Z27q 27.0" 5120x2880 60Hz Monitor  ($909.98 @ Directron) 
Other: Future AMD Pro part card thing ($700.00)
Total: $4956.18
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-07 15:46 EDT-0400

Still cheaper than the iMac Pro and still better

10Gbe ethernet?

Quad TB3 ports? 

 

I think you're missing something  

[juri-han]

What kind of deal does Apple have with Intel, could ryzen (7nm zen2 by then) be a option along with vega for the next MacBook Pro revamp

 

or at least a 6 core coffee lake

[Drak3]

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

It's likely using newer Xeon processors than the system you specced out; we don't know how the Vega graphics inside will perform.

Almost guarantee you that it's a Skylake-EP and that the VEGA chips used will deliver roughly 1070 performance for the base, and 1080 performance as a higher tier option. Neither of which we actually have pricing data for. It could turn out that both chips are decently less expensive than their released counterparts.

[babadoctor]

12 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

 

Please tell me, HOW can this tiny heatsink cool a 140W Xeon and a 200-250W Vega GPU without thermal throttling?

The design is subjective. IMO, this looks 100x better than the iMac Pro:

 

>Tiny heatsink

 

You surely must be misunderstanding something.

 

The entire backplate of the mac will be used as a heatsink.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

ITT: people who religiously hate Apple and OEM-AIOs are both missing the plot.

 

BOM is not the only factor involved in the value of an item, and even then the parts lists shown here leave a lot to be desired.

 

1) Assembly cost is a thing; even building a PC yourself is not "free" in reality. The old adage is true: "time is money".

2) There is also the matter of bulk supply of parts, and bulk distribution of the final product. Individually this may seem insignificant, but they add up to a big number.

3) Having custom-tailored parts is rather expensive for what it is. This is not slapping some PC parts in and calling it a day.

4) Form factor and simplicity are both matters that cannot be ignored and absolutely cannot be taken for granted, especially with such a wide demographic of customers.

[Jito463]

 

3 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

The Quadro P5000 is the same thing as a 1080, so unless you really need 10 bit color or NVlink, purchasing the quadro makes no sense.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Xeon E5-2699 V4 2.2GHz 22-Core OEM/Tray Processor  ($1756.00 @ Amazon) 
CPU Cooler: NZXT - Kraken X62 Liquid CPU Cooler  ($158.99 @ SuperBiiz) 
Motherboard: ASRock - X99 Extreme4 ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($149.99 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Kingston - 32GB (4 x 8GB) Registered DDR4-2133 Memory  ($388.46 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Samsung - 960 Pro 1.0TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($579.99 @ Dell Small Business) 
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1080 8GB G1 ROCK Video Card  ($494.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Fractal Design - Define S ATX Mid Tower Case  ($79.99 @ NCIX US) 
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G2 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($99.89 @ OutletPC) 
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit  ($132.89 @ OutletPC) 
Monitor: HP - Z27q 27.0" 5120x2880 60Hz Monitor  ($909.98 @ Directron) 
Keyboard: Corsair - K55 RGB Wired Gaming Keyboard  ($49.99 @ Best Buy) 
Mouse: Logitech - MX Master Bluetooth Wireless Laser Mouse  ($61.99 @ Amazon) 
Other: Webcam ($100.00)
Total: $4963.14
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-06-07 17:10 EDT-0400

Fixed that

Of course, I simply said that a $5K PC would perform better

If you take into account the cost of the 5K display, then the price may be slightly justified, but based on the hardware it has, it's probably worth $3000.

On 6/5/2017 at 1:15 PM, lots of unexplainable lag said:

Remember, that just gets you an 8-core.

Assuming the above post is correct, then you can shave ~$1k off the cost of the custom build by using an 8-core Xeon.  And that's just based on last gen pricing, not Intel's X299 or AMD's X399, which would be even cheaper.

[PCGuy_5960]

12 hours ago, babadoctor said:

>Tiny heatsink

 

You surely must be misunderstanding something.

 

The entire backplate of the mac will be used as a heatsink.

Source? I am pretty sure that they are only using that small heatsink