AMD Radeon RX VEGA to Launch at SIGGRAPH 2017

[The Owl]

Loved the clapping and enthusiasm from those at the end of the Vega (gaming) presentation.

[tom_w141]

1 hour ago, JediFragger said:

 

£600;

 

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/kfa2-geforce-gtx-1080ti-reference-blower-11264mb-gddr5x-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-09l-kf.html

You shouldn't compare it to the most basic sketchy branded blower card lol... That card will be that cheap for a reason. Lets be real here the 1080Ti's people would actually buy start at around £700

[Taf the Ghost]

35 minutes ago, Dipesh429 said:

Though the guys who have been patiently waiting for Vega might end up buying the Nvidia 10 series cards. Practically speaking before we get the custom cooled cards i.e evga, asus, gigabyte etc (taking in mind the HBM2 availability) guys will start looking forward for volta announcement or even leaks, and all VEGA hype will die. its poor planning on AMD's side.

Volta probably not until next Spring.  So there's still a while for that.  Plus, we really don't know how Vega will perform, nor we do we know how it's going to scale. That's really where the recent Nvidia architectures have been extremely good.

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, Sampsy said:

This isn't anything new. Nvidia has been keeping AMD at arms length for years now. Nvidia are so far ahead they begin by selling what are really mid-range chips as the high-end because they beat whatever AMD has out. Over the next few months they gradually release bigger chips, eventually resulting in the xx80Ti's and Titans. Once AMD finally catches up and releases a new architecture, Nvidia is basically ready to release their new architecture which will wipe the floor with it. 

 

I expect Vega will be competitive with Pascal and may even force prices down a bit. But a couple of months after release Volta will arrive and make it mostly irrelevant again, securing the GPU market for Nvidia for the next year+. 

 

It really is striking the contrast between AMD and Nvidia.  Usually competing companies go toe for toe,  I can't really think of any other industries (or companies for that matter) where the competition is like this. 

[JediFragger]

15 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

You shouldn't compare it to the most basic sketchy branded blower card lol... That card will be that cheap for a reason. Lets be real here the 1080Ti's people would actually buy start at around £700

 

Tbh a friend of mine got one for his Ryzen system. It's not that loud and clocks to 2025Mhz (drops to around 1900Mhz under load). He's happy as a pig in shit and I can't really blame him!

[IntMD]

 

8 minutes ago, JediFragger said:

 

Tbh a friend of mine got one for his Ryzen system. It's not that loud and clocks to 2025Mhz (drops to around 1900Mhz under load). He's happy as a pig in shit and I can't really blame him!

And you could slap one of the EVGA Hybrids on it and it would still be £80+ cheaper than any of the other AIOs on OCUK, if you wanted to.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

 

It really is striking the contrast between AMD and Nvidia.  Usually competing companies go toe for toe,  I can't really think of any other industries (or companies for that matter) where the competition is like this. 

AMD is still digging out of a long chain of bad management, so all we're seeing is this effect play out in a more highly visible industry.  This actual interaction, where the market leader slow-rolls everything while their competition is struggling, is more common than you think.  It actually happens in most parts of the tech or manufacturing industry. (Slow-rolling saves in R&D costs since the "Fast, Good or Cheap: Pick 2" is *very* real.)

 

The other issue is that AMD has also been introducing some fairly sizable changes in the philosophical approach to their architectures. "Infinity Fabric" is more than just a technology; it's an entirely new approach to the design of most of AMD's products. It's also why things are suddenly sort of exciting again for these fields of Tech. This is some pretty cool new tech and it's going to change a lot of things.

 

Polaris will actually under-volt & over-clock at the same time.  (Or they over-volted the base cards for some reason.) That's important because what would happen if you dropped the RX580 to 75w. Now, toss 4 of them, connected via Infinite Fabric, on a GPU? You probably end up with a roughly 16 Teraflop GPU. That's where this is all going. (Though I expect 2x Vega CPUs that are transparent to the System before we get to Navi, but we'll see.)  Epyc ships in June.  That's 4 Ryzen "cores" on a single package for Servers. This is a pretty big change in the way things are going to be going for a lot of tech.

[Agosto]

First it was february, then may, then june, now august/september. AMD, please, I'm suffering and I don't want to stay on the green team. 

Hope that Vega really deserves the wait.

[Juanitology]

End of July? Ok sorry AMD, I've been waiting for a long time but I'm done. I'm getting a used 1080 next week, I've been putting off a lot of new games I wanted to play because I was waiting for Vega to come out but I'm sick of the delays and all the bullshit and I can't imagine I'm the only one.

[mr moose]

23 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

AMD is still digging out of a long chain of bad management, so all we're seeing is this effect play out in a more highly visible industry.  This actual interaction, where the market leader slow-rolls everything while their competition is struggling, is more common than you think.  It actually happens in most parts of the tech or manufacturing industry. (Slow-rolling saves in R&D costs since the "Fast, Good or Cheap: Pick 2" is *very* real.)

 

The other issue is that AMD has also been introducing some fairly sizable changes in the philosophical approach to their architectures. "Infinity Fabric" is more than just a technology; it's an entirely new approach to the design of most of AMD's products. It's also why things are suddenly sort of exciting again for these fields of Tech. This is some pretty cool new tech and it's going to change a lot of things.

 

Polaris will actually under-volt & over-clock at the same time.  (Or they over-volted the base cards for some reason.) That's important because what would happen if you dropped the RX580 to 75w. Now, toss 4 of them, connected via Infinite Fabric, on a GPU? You probably end up with a roughly 16 Teraflop GPU. That's where this is all going. (Though I expect 2x Vega CPUs that are transparent to the System before we get to Navi, but we'll see.)  Epyc ships in June.  That's 4 Ryzen "cores" on a single package for Servers. This is a pretty big change in the way things are going to be going for a lot of tech.

 

Yep,  but can you think of another company in the same boat as far as being so far behind their competitor?

 

[Taf the Ghost]

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Yep,  but can you think of another company in the same boat as far as being so far behind their competitor?

 

Know much about the car industry?

 

AMD isn't behind Nvidia in Tech. In many ways, they're ahead.  The issue is that they didn't build out a massive die Polaris chips.  So, yes, they did leave off a chunk of the market, which conceded the high-end of a full generation to Nvidia.  It seems like the GCN approach reached its limits, however, which is really why they did. Vega brings in a lot of changes, so we'll see.

 

AMD vs Intel, however, was a pretty massive Tech problem, beyond Intel's normal manufacturing advantage. That's why Ryzen is so big.  In most workloads, it's currently the most powerful CPU core available, which is impressive considering where AMD was with the entire Dozer-Disaster. That's the more impressive comeback.

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Know much about the car industry?

 

AMD isn't behind Nvidia in Tech. In many ways, they're ahead.  The issue is that they didn't build out a massive die Polaris chips.  So, yes, they did leave off a chunk of the market, which conceded the high-end of a full generation to Nvidia.  It seems like the GCN approach reached its limits, however, which is really why they did. Vega brings in a lot of changes, so we'll see.

 

AMD vs Intel, however, was a pretty massive Tech problem, beyond Intel's normal manufacturing advantage. That's why Ryzen is so big.  In most workloads, it's currently the most powerful CPU core available, which is impressive considering where AMD was with the entire Dozer-Disaster. That's the more impressive comeback.

Which part of the car market/industry? 

[leadeater]

48 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

You probably end up with a roughly 16 Teraflop GPU. That's where this is all going. (Though I expect 2x Vega CPUs that are transparent to the System before we get to Navi, but we'll see.)

I don't think we will see that, I asked HPE if Naples or Vega has implemented Gen-z in to those products fully and the answer was no. So while lots of their tech is based off of Gen-z the technology hasn't been fully planned out and proposed yet so it likely wont be possible to do this with the up coming products, have a look at HPE The Machine which is doing what you're talking about but it's still only an engineering/technical demo.

[laminutederire]

28 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Yep,  but can you think of another company in the same boat as far as being so far behind their competitor?

 

How far do you think they are seriously ? Polaris is on par with nvidia non high end cards, vega will attempt to touch the high end. The real reason amd is late to the party is that nvidia has done almost nothing new with pascal compared to maxwell. So far, looking at their tesla card, Volta is Pascal=Maxwell with just more cores. People have computed that number time and again, the "impressive" Volta would perform like Pascal if it had less cores. That shows that nvidia is a bit stuck in a rut and doesn't necessarily look that far into the future because they don't appear to want to leave maxwell based architectures. That leaves AMD a year late with a company which has done little over this year and which hasn't shown something that impressive compared to what they already have. If Vega performs on par with pascal, they won't be really behind Volta, if Volta is just pascal with more cores 

 

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Which part of the car market/industry? 

Only one that remotely comes to mind would be Bugatti, if we're talking full package not just speed/acceleration alone. Even that is dubious.

 

Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche have their best cars competing as equals.

 

Even in the car world you mostly get the same thing from everyone when paying the same amount.

[Cartoons Plural]

5 hours ago, zMeul said:

you will get tearing also when the FPS dips below the display's refresh rate

i can't imagine it's THAT bad.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

Only one that remotely comes to mind would be Bugatti, if you're talking full package not just speed/acceleration alone. Even that is dubious.

 

Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche have their best cars competing as equals.

 

Even in the car world you mostly get the same thing from everyone when paying the same amount.

Precisely.  Even in the domestic market most companies are going toe for toe with their latest products.

 

2 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

How far do you think they are seriously ? Polaris is on par with nvidia non high end cards, vega will attempt to touch the high end. The real reason amd is late to the party is that nvidia has done almost nothing new with pascal compared to maxwell. So far, looking at their tesla card, Volta is Pascal=Maxwell with just more cores. People have computed that number time and again, the "impressive" Volta would perform like Pascal if it had less cores. That shows that nvidia is a bit stuck in a rut and doesn't necessarily look that far into the future because they don't appear to want to leave maxwell based architectures. That leaves AMD a year late with a company which has done little over this year and which hasn't shown something that impressive compared to what they already have. If Vega performs on par with pascal, they won't be really behind Volta, if Volta is just pascal with more cores 

 

 

Further apart than most other competing companies around the world.   Don't make the assumption that being behind is solely a technology advancement distance (even though your post strongly supports such a proposition, i.e being a year late to compete with a company that has done nothing) but it is also financial and market share.

[Taf the Ghost]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Only one that remotely comes to mind would be Bugatti, if we're talking full package not just speed/acceleration alone. Even that is dubious.

 

Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche have their best cars competing as equals.

 

Even in the car world you mostly get the same thing from everyone when paying the same amount.

1978 Chevys.  Cars so bad I still remember complaints about them... in the late 90s.

 

GM & Ford in the European market in the late 90s.

 

FIAT... most of the time.

 

In a completely separate field, Bose. They're all marketing, all the time. They've sold medium quality tech for premium quality prices for years.  Having the best Tech doesn't always matter in a lot of fields.

[leadeater]

Just now, Taf the Ghost said:

In a completely separate field, Bose. They're all marketing, all the time. They've sold medium quality tech for premium quality prices for years.  Having the best Tech doesn't always matter in a lot of fields.

Yea I really hate Bose, some of the most vile over priced products on the market. I do however have one exception, the Bose 301 are one of the best surround sound speakers I've ever used. I've got a pair of Series II and a pair of Series V, great price solid performance.

 

Also Fiat.... .

[The Physicist]

Bummer. I am planning to upgrade in early September and I would have liked to go Freesync to save on the monitor cost. AMD really needs to push the high end market more.

[Scionyde]

So I basically won't be able to buy Vega until early August (possibly later if the rumors of limited stock cause them to sell out early)? Ugh... I don't know... Unless some gorgeous Freesync 2.0 monitors show up at Computex to get me hyped up into waiting even longer, I think I'm just going to pull the trigger on a 1080 Ti.

[mr moose]

11 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

1978 Chevys.  Cars so bad I still remember complaints about them... in the late 90s.

 

GM & Ford in the European market in the late 90s.

 

FIAT... most of the time.

 

In a completely separate field, Bose. They're all marketing, all the time. They've sold medium quality tech for premium quality prices for years.  Having the best Tech doesn't always matter in a lot of fields.

I am not sure you understand the reach of Bose audio.   Their domestic line may be over priced for what it is. But they are very well respected in pro audio circles.  In fact they trade blows with all the major players (JBL, electrovoice and QSC) for install space. 

[Taf the Ghost]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yea I really hate Bose, some of the most vile over priced products on the market. I do however have one exception, the Bose 301 are one of the best surround sound speakers I've ever used. I've got a pair of Series II and a pair of Series V, great price solid performance.

 

Also Fiat.... .

Bose has actually turned out a few solid products, but that's a couple of decades after they were supposedly "high end" audio.  Some engineer in their Headphone department also didn't get the memo and turned out some good products too.

 

1 minute ago, The Physicist said:

Bummer. I am planning to upgrade in early September and I would have liked to go Freesync to save on the monitor cost. AMD really needs to push the high end market more.

Full Vega announcement at the end of July. So August/September for Vega products, it would seem.  I'd recommend checking back in during August to see.

 

As to the AMD vs Nvidia on technology point, there's a reason the RX480/580s are all sold out right now.  It's because it does most compute tasks on the same level as the 1070 currently, yet they price it much lower because the gaming performance is roughly that.  Some part of the Maxwell Pipeline is just much better than the GCN pipeline for gaming.  That's why the whole "they're behind!" narrative doesn't make sense. Nvidia won this architecture round. For anyone that remembers the Intel Netburst days, this just happens in Tech.

[Taf the Ghost]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I am not sure you understand the reach of Bose audio.   Their domestic line may be over priced for what it is. But they are very well respected in pro audio circles.  In fact they trade blows with all the major players (JBL, exectrovoice and QSC) for install space. 

Bose, to increase their sales, improved in certain spaces.  That doesn't change the couple of decades of their actions nor where they still operate for most of their sales. Though, to their credit, they've never been terrible audio products.  Just not very good or ever properly priced.

[laminutederire]

12 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Precisely.  Even in the domestic market most companies are going toe for toe with their latest products.

 

 

Further apart than most other competing companies around the world.   Don't make the assumption that being behind is solely a technology advancement distance (even though your post strongly supports such a proposition, i.e being a year late to compete with a company that has done nothing) but it is also financial and market share.

For cars, Bugatti is getting its ass handed off by Koenigsegg on similar price ranges. They have faster cars with better acceleration, consumption efficiency, maneuverability and so on.

 

In the tech industry, look at pre-built,  apple is the king of overpriced products.

 

Yes but AMD not being behind technologically speaking make them in a tighter competition than they ever were with Intel for a few years. Because they only are behind in stupid people's mind. Rational people see they're competing with nvidia and don't say you have to buy a 3GB 1060 because.. nvidia etc.

They're not far behind on everything,  that was the point