CPU Wars - The ePenis Saga

[Not_Sean]

So doing further reading on the upcoming X299 and AMD's X399 (Stupid AF name AMD.. come on, get it together here!) and just me or doing anyone else find themselves seriously just not giving a Damn about any of them, The core count is through the roof, the amount of PCIe lanes is retarded and frankly who the hell (I'm putting aside REAL PROFESSIONALS, not youtubers and such) is going to buy this stuff, How small is your ePenis? ? 

 

We all know HEDT are awesome and all that but when a i5 is still good for games with a i7/R5 been the premium, and than the great priced R7's for you content creators out there the hell is the point of 10c/20t and beyond ?

 

Please don't tell me they only for top tier content creators, cause than why the hell are the MB guys already doing X299 Gaming Motherboards puking RGB everywhere ?

 

I know we would love to have a X299 + SLI Titans A-Z (Who knows anymore with the naming) but I'm just struggling to understand besides wanting to brag on forums, or Setting a big pile of money on fire what is the point..

 

like do please tell me, What programs exactly are you using that can validate this ?   

[Droidbot]

Intel/AMD are just dumping their failed server parts (doesnt work with ecc for example) on consumers, like all the previous architectures

 

and people who render and create really do use all these cores. I've seen small render systems with 64 core Opterons..

[Enderman]

I'm waiting for i7 8000 series for better core performance and better efficiency.

8 threads IMO is enough for most things, maybe a cheaper i7 with 16 threads would be nice though.

[The Sloth]

seems like you are having a rough day. PC market is finally started to get better, your insecurity seems dumb and unnecessary. 

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, Not_Sean said:

So doing further reading on the upcoming X299 and AMD's X399 (Stupid AF name AMD.. come on, get it together here!) and just me or doing anyone else find themselves seriously just not giving a Damn about any of them, The core count is through the roof, the amount of PCIe lanes is retarded and frankly who the hell (I'm putting aside REAL PROFESSIONALS, not youtubers and such) is going to buy this stuff, How small is your ePenis? ? 

 

We all know HEDT are awesome and all that but when a i5 is still good for games with a i7/R5 been the premium, and than the great priced R7's for you content creators out there the hell is the point of 10c/20t and beyond ?

 

Please don't tell me they only for top tier content creators, cause than why the hell are the MB guys already doing X299 Gaming Motherboards puking RGB everywhere ?

 

I know we would love to have a X299 + SLI Titans A-Z (Who knows anymore with the naming) but I'm just struggling to understand besides wanting to brag on forums, or Setting a big pile of money on fire what is the point..

 

like do please tell me, What programs exactly are you using that can validate this ?   

VM's (yes, even creating multiple gaming machines on a single PC), multi-tasking (twitch, gaming, file serving all simultaneously) and as you mentioned, content creation in general.

 

Plenty of normal consumers that would love to be able to leverage the power of more cores, but cannot afford them. I personally know of several people that have bought cheap used Dell blades off Ebay with multi-core Xeons for $300-$400, just to use the additional cores for their workloads/VM's. With AMD bringing a competitive value to the field of HEDT, it's bound to cause Intel to respond some-what price wise (even if they maintain a performance advantage) so it's a win-win for consumers. Why you seem to have some sort of disdain towards this is beyond me.

 

The additional PCIe lanes make perfect sense for people that are currently heavily bottlenecked by their DMI bus on the consumer platforms (anyone RAIDing NVMe drives, or using thunderbolt while using aforementioned DMI bus devices know this pain quite well)  and the improved memory bandwidth and capacity from the additional channels mean ram caching will not only be even faster, but more common for the general consumer.

 

The typical i5 is no longer enough for all games. I own 2 i5's, and both of them stutter in GTA5 while my i7 does not. I've also seen Ryzen CPU's with better minimum framerates in some titles when compared to consumer i7's, due to their core count advantage and how well the application is designed to leverage the additional threads. I say, as long as IPC and clock speeds are not suffering to a heavy extent, then more cores are fine.

 

Understand, this isn't all about bragging rights. Just because you yourself don't see the appeal of it, doesn't mean someone else can't utilize that extra horsepower. I myself would likely host multiple users from a single PC, to cut down on maintenance of multiple PC's, and save me from having to upgrade several members of my family at once. It's also great for heavy file compression, something I find myself doing quite a bit of. Would I still bench with this hardware? You better believe it, but it's not the sole appeal of buying it.

[Dblock]

5 minutes ago, Enderman said:

I'm waiting for i7 8000 series for better core performance and better efficiency.

8 threads IMO is enough for most things, maybe a cheaper i7 with 16 threads would be nice though.

because everyone uses intel stuff which is 8 threads max. But with the higher and higher thread counts I hope software will make use of that. Even phones are making better use of multi threading. The days of change the architecture, shrink the node and up the clocks are dead IMO. 

[Enderman]

Just now, Dblock said:

because everyone uses intel stuff which is 8 threads max. But with the higher and higher thread counts I hope software will make use of that. Even phones are making better use of multi threading. The days of change the architecture, shrink the node and up the clocks are dead IMO. 

Some software makes use of it.

Most of what I use is single threaded or uses 4 cores, so having more than 8 threads isn't super necessary.

I wouldn't trade the best single core performance for 16 threads is what I'm saying.

[DocSwag]

It's for prosumers that need a lot of cores but also might want to game on the side. It makes sense in my opinion.

[Dblock]

1 hour ago, Enderman said:

Some software makes use of it.

Most of what I use is single threaded or uses 4 cores, so having more than 8 threads isn't super necessary.

I wouldn't trade the best single core performance for 16 threads is what I'm saying.

What it in the next 5 years it's all about the cores? I'm not saying you should buy hardware now for 5 years later but why would things be optimised for multi threaded CPUs? Intel celerons and i3 are still everywhere. Intel said 4 cores is all your getting pretty much and it's lead software to get developed in the same way. You wouldn't release a game that needs 10 threads as probably less than 1% of the market could play it. But IMO more cores AND software that makes use of it is where we are going to have to look for the next big bump in performance. 

 

Graphics is in that situation where obviously you can improve but the efficiency but throwing more cores at it makes it faster. 

[Enderman]

1 minute ago, Dblock said:

What it in the next 5 years it's all about the cores? I'm not saying you should buy hardware now for 5 years later but why would things be optimised for multi threaded CPUs? Intel celerons and i3 are still everywhere. Intel said 4 cores is all your getting pretty much and it's lead software to get developed in the same way. You wouldn't release a game that needs 10 threads as probably less than 1% of the market could play it. But IMO more cores AND software that makes use of it is where we are going to have to look for the next big bump in performance. 

 

Graphics is in that situation where obviously you can improve but the efficiency but throwing more cores at it makes it faster. 

Not really.

Software began as single threaded, it was not forcefully made to use less threads because most CPUs have few threads.

 

If you get into software development or computer engineering you will understand why it's so hard to make most programs multithreaded, and why a lot of the time multithreading does not actually offer an improvement.

 

If 5 years from now programs can use 16 threads, then great, I will probably be able to buy a 16 thread CPU for cheap.

Currently, unless you do a lot of rendering or other heavy multithreading computation tasks, having more threads just means you can run more programs at the same time easily.

[NumLock21]

Every computer has their purpose, just because you don't see that, does not mean others won't.

Your in a PC forum. To say something like having more cores is just about bragging and have a small epenis? Are you a true PC enthusiast or a console peasant?

[Blebekblebek]

is this rhetoric questions?

 

I mean you can replace the word AMD with Intel

replace X299 with X99, and X399 with previous X79

 

and voila, you got same impression.

eg.

 

" WHY WOULD ANYONE WHO ALREADY HAVE X79 PLATFORM WITH E5-2670 WANT TO UPGRADE TO X99 PLATFORM, WHO'S GOING TO BUY THEM AND NEED THEM IN FIRST PLACE OTHER THAN CONTENT CREATORS "

 

Does OP really think that people bought this super computer for bragging rights?

 

[Not_Sean]

2 hours ago, Droidbot said:

Intel/AMD are just dumping their failed server parts (doesnt work with ecc for example) on consumers, like all the previous architectures

 

and people who render and create really do use all these cores. I've seen small render systems with 64 core Opterons..

hahaha i like the first bit  *See bottom for second part

1 hour ago, nerdslayer1 said:

seems like you are having a rough day. PC market is finally started to get better, your insecurity seems dumb and unnecessary. 

Na pretty good day, and trust me I'm super happy with AMD making the CPU scene interesting again, I'd dying for R3 to hit and see its benchmarks Vs price Vs intel. Going to be great for consumers. *See bottom 

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

VM's (yes, even creating multiple gaming machines on a single PC), multi-tasking (twitch, gaming, file serving all simultaneously) and as you mentioned, content creation in general.

 

Plenty of normal consumers that would love to be able to leverage the power of more cores, but cannot afford them. I personally know of several people that have bought cheap used Dell blades off Ebay with multi-core Xeons for $300-$400, just to use the additional cores for their workloads/VM's. With AMD bringing a competitive value to the field of HEDT, it's bound to cause Intel to respond some-what price wise (even if they maintain a performance advantage) so it's a win-win for consumers. Why you seem to have some sort of disdain towards this is beyond me.

 

The additional PCIe lanes make perfect sense for people that are currently heavily bottlenecked by their DMI bus on the consumer platforms (anyone RAIDing NVMe drives, or using thunderbolt while using aforementioned DMI bus devices know this pain quite well)  and the improved memory bandwidth and capacity from the additional channels mean ram caching will not only be even faster, but more common for the general consumer.

 

The typical i5 is no longer enough for all games. I own 2 i5's, and both of them stutter in GTA5 while my i7 does not. I've also seen Ryzen CPU's with better minimum framerates in some titles when compared to consumer i7's, due to their core count advantage and how well the application is designed to leverage the additional threads. I say, as long as IPC and clock speeds are not suffering to a heavy extent, then more cores are fine.

 

Understand, this isn't all about bragging rights. Just because you yourself don't see the appeal of it, doesn't mean someone else can't utilize that extra horsepower. I myself would likely host multiple users from a single PC, to cut down on maintenance of multiple PC's, and save me from having to upgrade several members of my family at once. It's also great for heavy file compression, something I find myself doing quite a bit of. Would I still bench with this hardware? You better believe it, but it's not the sole appeal of buying it.

VM's I can agree with, but anyone who's doing large amount of VM's (As I myself did with our Servers) use Xeon's not Stupidly overpriced i7/i9's and for Home users or such something like the R7's are great, not saying this stuff shouldn't exsist. saying marketing and aiming it at end consumers is where I am scratching my head. 

 

No i5's are far from dead. I don't know what you trying with yours but my Redstone Rig handles GTA5 beautifully maxed out. but yes moving to a 4c/8t CPU is the future and i accept that

 

*See Bottom

1 hour ago, DocSwag said:

It's for prosumers that need a lot of cores but also might want to game on the side. It makes sense in my opinion.

*See Bottom

20 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Every computer has their purpose, just because you don't see that, does not mean others won't.

Your in a PC forum. To say something like having more cores is just about bragging and have a small epenis? Are you a true PC enthusiast or a console peasant?

*See Bottom

and Personally I hate the PCMR thing. Nothing drips with more arrogance than saying I have more power in how I game than you so I'm better than you, Its just as bad as the mindset of I have more Money than you I'm better than you. Yes I'll never make that human part of it go away in people, but I don't have to embrace or support it ether. 

12 minutes ago, Blebekblebek said:

is this rhetoric questions?

 

I mean you can replace the word AMD with Intel

replace X299 with X99, and X399 with previous X79

 

and voila, you got same impression.

eg.

 

" WHY WOULD ANYONE WHO ALREADY HAVE X79 PLATFORM WITH E5-2670 WANT TO UPGRADE TO X99 PLATFORM, WHO'S GOING TO BUY THEM AND NEED THEM IN FIRST PLACE OTHER THAN CONTENT CREATORS "

 

Does OP really think that people bought this super computer for bragging rights?

 

* See bottom


SEE BOTTOM:

A lot of you seem to completely miss the point that I made about this been targeted at the End level consumer NOT Professionals or Cooperates. I'm asking why is anything beyond 8c/16t been targeted as the best of the best FOR GAMERS. at time of writing 1080p is standard, and hell intel graphics is able to game at that level (Yes while not great it still can) and its already proven that going beyond 1080p the CPU usage drops Hugely. So why are we getting this 10c/20T Gamers Elite crap, 

Just look at this Pic from Intel themselves!

 

Overclocking I can accept as those guys compete in their own way. Content creation.. Yes to a point. The point been that I've seen so many times here on the forum someone going "I want to do a little bit of light content creation Guess I'll have to go X99".. NO hell most i5's are happy handling content creation.. Proof: THIS was edited on 3x i5 Laptops, we worked on different sections and the final render was off one of the laptops. So Please do tell me average HOME users.. what exactly do you need anything above a i7/R5 for ? Yes it will make it faster by a small bit but not something someone who isn't a Professional will ever notice.

 

The Other two are Gaming and VR.. both of which can be handled by a i5 but again i7/R5 is the perfect point for them. so why are these mammoth CPU's been targeted at us for ?

 

To the guys who completely missed my point, and who think i'm all panties up in a bunch i'm not, I'm just failing to understand why normal guys on this forum and some other ones are super excited to buy some 7900's

 

Please do tell me what is the point ? That is what I'm asking, what is the point in going beyond a R7/ 8C/16T even if you are doing content creation besides its something you want, and don't use Enthusiast as a reason, I know guys who have never had anything close to the gaming rigs I've seen on here but who live and breath computers. Excess of money does not automatically make you a Enthusiast just because you can afford it. 

 

I'm here to hopefully learn something about these guys and why they buy these, Cause so far from What I've seen on forums it so they can have the most badass Signature and even a few times seen them quoting them in the defense that they are Uber Nerd L33T

[The Sloth]

16 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

. Proof: THIS was edited on 3x i5 Laptops, we worked on different sections and the final render was off one of the laptops. So Please do tell me average HOME users.. what exactly do you need anything above a i7/R5 for ? Yes it will make it faster by a small bit but not something someone who isn't a Professional will ever notice.

people just want faster chips to edit in, just because you are happy with a 4c/4 shitty overpriced cpu, it doesn't mean everyone else will be, improving technology takes money.  

 

16 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

Please do tell me what is the point ? That is what I'm asking, what is the point in going beyond a R7/ 8C/16T even if you are doing content creation besides its something you want, and don't use Enthusiast as a reason, I know guys who have never had anything close to the gaming rigs I've seen on here but who live and breath computers. Excess of money does not automatically make you a Enthusiast just because you can afford it. 

 

I'm here to hopefully learn something about these guys and why they buy these, Cause so far from What I've seen on forums it so they can have the most badass Signature and even a few times seen them quoting them in the defense that they are Uber Nerd L33T

the point in to push industries forward, if everyone was like you, we would have had 2006 shitty computers for home users.   people who can afford high-end stuff are the reason why we highend chips for cheap, an example being ryzen 1600/1700 came to be, mammoth 6c/12t and 8c/12t that would have cost 1000$ few years ago. 

 

 

there are lots of applications than your shitty low-quality video editing with almost no editing or effect in it, even making a simple game or editing a 4k video recorded on a phone takes processing. 

the bottom line is just

because you don't have a use for it, it doesn't mean no one else does. 

 

[The Sloth]

3 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

you the one attacking my video and NOT answering question.

 

to Quote.. "because you don't have a use for it, it doesn't mean no one else does. "

 

What are these Uses excluding the professional environment ?

 

"excluding professional environments" a ryzen 1600/1700 or x99 55820k/5960x vs a i5 for a casual streamer 

[Not_Sean]

2 minutes ago, nerdslayer1 said:

"excluding professional environments" a ryzen 1600/1700 or x99 55820k/5960x vs a i5 for a casual streamer 

ok now at least we have a discussion going.. 

 

well not a i5 as I do agree they are min these days. i7/R5 the way to go. 

 

so a person who is not a full time Streamer/Video/Photo Editor why would they need something like a X299 ? the 1600 is a fantastic chip if you doing that stuff part time or Hobbyist or running VM's. exaclty why I bought one, But if my needs went any more large scale besides sandbox I'd be going Xeons. so that gap.. the X299, how would you use them ? 

 

I have left the AMD out of this as they don't seem to have the word Gaming anywhere near their EPYC range from what I have seen, same as how Xeons are also not mentioned. 

 

Even on the Asus site the X299 got Gaming slapped all over it?

[DocSwag]

@Not_Sean As I said, it's for PROSUMERS. People that game, but ALSO do stuff that do heavily threaded workloads. A perfect example of this is techtubers. They usually want a good gaming machine, but also want editing videos to be pretty nice and fast. Consumer products don't have enough cores for editing, and xeons don't have high enough clock speeds to be good for gaming. 

 

Another example would be college students getting engineering degrees. They might need a CPU with lots of cores for the 3D modeling they might do, but also want a CPU good for gaming.

[The Sloth]

6 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

well not a i5 as I do agree they are min these days. i7/R5 the way to go. 

 

those monsters are the reason we have, R5 and R7 lineups. 

 

6 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

so a person who is not a full time Streamer/Video/Photo Editor why would they need something like a X299 ?

they don't, they have it because they can afford with some futureproofing, luxury items doesn't exist for someone needs, no one needs a private jet. 

 

6 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

But if my needs went any more large scale besides sandbox I'd be going Xeons. so that gap.. the X299, how would you use them ? 

to overclock them, Xeons are not very good at overclocking, some games require clocks. 

6 minutes ago, Not_Sean said:

Even on the Asus site the X299 got Gaming slapped all over it?

 

that is called marketing, yes some games will take advantage of higher cores but it is mostly marketing that does the bulk of the work. 

[Not_Sean]

Just now, DocSwag said:

@Not_Sean As I said, it's for PROSUMERS. People that game, but ALSO do stuff that do heavily threaded workloads. A perfect example of this is techtubers. They usually want a good gaming machine, but also want editing videos to be pretty nice and fast. Consumer products don't have enough cores for editing, and xeons don't have high enough clock speeds to be good for gaming. 

 

Another example would be college students getting engineering degrees. They might need a CPU with lots of cores for the 3D modeling they might do, but also want a CPU good for gaming.

thanks man, That does sound right, but would you say these guys would need around 8c/16t or even more than that ? like struggling to see a 10c/20t on their shopping list. 

 

For the engineers I know most of them use the Varsity computers as they build epic xeon workstations. 

 

Hell most of the Youtubers I've meet who are living the dream and earning huge cash are editing off damn Mac's with 4 thread "i7" 

[DocSwag]

Just now, Not_Sean said:

thanks man, That does sound right, but would you say these guys would need around 8c/16t or even more than that ? like struggling to see a 10c/20t on their shopping list. 

 

For the engineers I know most of them use the Varsity computers as they build epic xeon workstations. 

 

Hell most of the Youtubers I've meet who are living the dream and earning huge cash are editing off damn Mac's with 4 thread "i7" 

Could always be useful if you have the cash . A lot of the techtubers out there that are pc focused use 6950xs, I believe. 10c doesn't seem to OC much worse than 8 so why not if you have the $$$

[WkdPaul]

Thread cleaned.

 

Please keep the Community Standards in mind and avoid personal insults.

[MageTank]

8 hours ago, Not_Sean said:

 

VM's I can agree with, but anyone who's doing large amount of VM's (As I myself did with our Servers) use Xeon's not Stupidly overpriced i7/i9's and for Home users or such something like the R7's are great, not saying this stuff shouldn't exsist. saying marketing and aiming it at end consumers is where I am scratching my head. 

 

No i5's are far from dead. I don't know what you trying with yours but my Redstone Rig handles GTA5 beautifully maxed out. but yes moving to a 4c/8t CPU is the future and i accept that

 

*See Bottom

 

I don't believe you understand what the people in this thread are trying to convey to you. As more cores become "the norm", the lower-end product stack gets cheaper for the "normal consumers" that you speak of. Not only that, but relatively stronger hardware becomes more accessible to those that may actually have a purpose to use it.

 

You mention "stupidly overpriced i7's/i9's" but you don't even know what the prices of the rumored i9's are. Worth in and of itself is subjective. Just because it seems overpriced to you, doesn't mean it's overpriced for everyone else. I know people that pay extreme premiums for just a slight boost in performance. If everyone cared about strictly price:performance, the x80 Ti cards and Titan class cards wouldn't sell as well as they do. 

 

Also, where in my post did I say "i5's are dead"? I said they are no longer enough for all games. Certain titles (GTA 5, Fallout 4, etc) tend to stutter when less threads are available to the application. This isn't some new discovery either, and it's seen in literally every benchmark that bothers to monitor minimum framerates. I have a 4690k sitting right behind me as we speak, clocked at 4.5ghz with a 980 Ti sitting in it (and extremely fast 2400 C9 memory, personally hand-tuned by me) and I still see stutters when entering specific area's of the map. It's also on a relatively fast SSD (850 evo), so it shouldn't be an issue with storage texture streaming either. The same stuttering occurs on my fathers 6600T, but not on my stock clocked 6700k. From what I hear, it's a problem with GTA 5 itself involving i5's: 

The solution seems to be to cripple the amount of FPS you get, which to a gamer, isn't an ideal solution. It also makes our 165hz panels feel underutilized. If you have the time to test this, try to see if you stutter at higher FPS. Again, my 4690k is clocked at 4.5ghz, an average overclock, and still fails. According to that second video, some Ryzen CPU's suffered the same issue at higher framerates, but I can't comment on that, as I currently do not own a Ryzen system.

 

Fallout 4, in the most simplistic terms, eat's every CPU in my household. I've had to overclock ram to obnoxious speeds to try to counter those minimum dips when entering certain towns and zones. Even at 3600 C14, my 4.2ghz 6700k still has slight dips sometimes, and my i5's still dip harder. I've basically chalked it up to the game itself, but it's still an issue for i5 users if they do intend to play these games. 

 

My hard stance on this is: if these products can fulfill a need for any consumer, then their existence is warranted. Trying to equate wanting more compute horsepower to inflating one's "epeen" comes off as extremely childish. If they are the kind of people that talk down to others for having inferior hardware, then sure, they are certainly childish, but I can't imagine the vast majority act that way. Most of us know that our high-end hardware immediately becomes dethroned within a year anyways, lol. 

[Princess Luna]

What's your point even?

 

People spend money on their hobbies, some are cards others are weapons, sports stuff, and some people are computers, they can spend the money for the rig of their dreams without having to explain any thing to any one, it is their money...

[Princess Luna]

8 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Consumer products don't have enough cores for editing

Then again for a less professional workload the mainstream i7's are fine, I do some pony music videos for youtube a few times to keep my editing skills up-to-date and when my brother won't allow me to use the 1800x my 7700 still does a pretty good job on Adobe and Sony Vegas.

 

It all comes down to need, justification and like mentioned how much $$$ you have at hand [: