Politics Forum

[straight_stewie]

I'll get straight to the point since it's simple and self explanatory for those who have been here for a while.

We used to talk politics in the Off-Topic forum quite alot. However, this causes many arguments and is a bad image for the forum and LTT as a whole. Due to many arguments, and what were essentially "flame wars" political discussions were essentially banned. I feel, though, that it is important to be able to discuss politics, especially with the many differing views and countries that are represented here on the Linus Tech Tips forum. So my feature suggestion is simple: A dedicated politics only sub forum.

By implementing this, political discussion is allowed (which is always good even if it seems bad), but these discussions can be easily avoided by those who do not wish to see such content.

[manikyath]

this is why we cant have nice things.

 

while there's plenty of people here who would have a very good politics debate out of which both sides could actually learn something, this is the internet, and there's always be *one* kiddo spoiling the party for everyone.

 

it's not only that it's a breeding ground for flamewars, its that the concept of it always becoming a flamewar spoils the fun for the actually decent people.

[straight_stewie]

2 minutes ago, manikyath said:

while there's plenty of people here who would have a very good politics debate out of which both sides could actually learn something, this is the internet, and there's always be *one* kiddo spoiling the party for everyone.

 

it's not only that it's a breeding ground for flamewars, its that the concept of it always becoming a flamewar spoils the fun for the actually decent people.

That's the problem that having a dedicated sub forum fixes. If it becomes that, it doesn't matter because it can easily be ignored (political posts wont be flooding the Off-Topic section), and it can easily be hidden from google searches.

Only those who want to view that type of post will be lurking around such a sub forum anyway. 

[vanished]

That would basically require an unmoderated subforum, which is a terrible idea for many reasons, and places like that already exist elsewhere on the internet  

[manikyath]

Just now, straight_stewie said:

That's the problem that having a dedicated sub forum fixes. If it becomes that, it doesn't matter because it can easily be ignored (political posts wont be flooding the Off-Topic section), and it can easily be hidden from google searches.

but you still allow the idiots to go there and spoil the party.

 

thats where the issue lies, no matter how much you hide it, you cant make a slice between people who *are* allowed to talk politics, and people who *arent* without it starting to feel like some serious political sensorship or favouritism.

[manikyath]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

places like that already exist elsewhere on the internet  

+1.

 

no further comment required

[straight_stewie]

Just now, manikyath said:

thats where the issue lies, no matter how much you hide it, you cant make a slice between people who *are* allowed to talk politics, and people who *arent* without it starting to feel like some serious political sensorship or favouritism.

You're missing my point. My basic belief is that anyone should be allowed to talk politics in every venue. By giving it a dedicated subforum, even with the issues that @Ryan_Vickers mentioned, it still solves that basic problem. 

And yes, places like that do exist elsewhere. But places to discuss politics with the likes and intelligence of the members of this forum do not exist elsewhere. This forum, with its mostly genuine members and mostly intelligent contributors with differing opinions and the facts to back them up is where I want to be, and honestly, I spend just as much, if not more, time on this forum as I do on Facebook.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, straight_stewie said:

You're missing my point. My basic belief is that anyone should be allowed to talk politics in every venue. By giving it a dedicated subforum, even with the issues that @Ryan_Vickers mentioned, it still solves that basic problem. 

And yes, places like that do exist elsewhere. But places to discuss politics with the likes and intelligence of the members of this forum do not exist elsewhere. This forum, with its mostly genuine members and mostly intelligent contributors with differing opinions and the facts to back them up is where I want to be, and honestly, I spend just as much, if not more, time on this forum as I do on Facebook.

The problem isn't keeping people who don't want to see it away, it's people who dive in and make a mess of everything.  And it tends to be something that draws people in, only to trigger them when they read something they don't agree with.

[manikyath]

Just now, straight_stewie said:

it still solves that basic problem. 

it still doesnt, as in the end LMG is responsible for keeping this place civil, and by that meaning keeping all of it civil.

 

having a political randomness subforum will eventually turn into bad things, because idiots, and because moderators have decided they dont want to touch it with a 30ft pole, but much rather just nuke from orbit.

 

this is the internet, and if you for one second believe that there can be decent political debate without specific figures from WWII being used as an "argument", you are mistaken. and if you believe that anyone in the moderation team or at LMG would be okay with that happening, you should talk to their sponsors (the people who keep this place running) about how they dont want anything to do with that.

 

they have actually had issues with the forum a while ago over a *single* edgy image burried in a massive thread somewhere.

[straight_stewie]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

And it tends to be something that draws people in, only to trigger them when they read something they don't agree with.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I tend to believe that people are responsible for their own actions and feelings and that they have to deal with them and their consequences with whatever tools they have.

So I guess it was a dumb idea then, whatever. 

[Mooshi]

It's bad enough people get buttmad over Intel vs AMD, I don't want political bullshit causing pointless forum drama.

[manikyath]

16 minutes ago, straight_stewie said:

I tend to believe that people are responsible for their own actions and feelings and that they have to deal with them and their consequences

thats the source of the problem: on the internet people arent responsible for their own actions.

[2FA]

Most of those topics ended up being shitfests between four members who shall not be named, let's just say that two of them are no longer on this forum.

[Enderman]

If you want to discuss politics then go to a politics forum or reddit.

There is no reason why this is necessary on a tech forum.

[captain_to_fire]

I think Luke and the rest of forum mods like @Ryan_Vickers have swung their trusy ban hammer on multiple occasions just because of a staunch opinion on technology, I don't think a politics forumwill just make LTT any favors. In fact, religion was once discussed in Off Topic (and I once posted on multiple occasions my strong opinions about it) but they tend to become way too juvenile regardless someone is a believer or not. 

 

While this one is just a speculation of mine but i think one reason why topics like politics or religion is no longer allowed is because it can hurt their financial income especially their sponsorships. I know that un their reviews they still can say whatever they want about a product but if a sponsor sees the forum to have become one toxic mess, they'll probably boycott LMG for sponsorships just like the YouTube ad boycott and I don't want to see Linus's employees filing their resignation letters because he can no longer pay them. But then again, that's just my speculation and I don't really think they really need too much negativity. 

[leadeater]

Keep in mind this is a technology forum, that is the purpose of it's existence. Anything that is not technology related is secondary and if it is causing significant problems it may be disallowed.

 

One of the reasons for not allowing political or religious discussions is good members can and have gotten caught up in these and had warnings or suspensions that otherwise never would have been received.

[GuruMeditationError]

Generally speaking, political alignment is pretty arbitrary and part of human "tribal" nature and as such dependant on the social context the individual finds him or herself in. Unless you're going to physically re-locate a person, you're probably best just letting them go on believing what everyone around them believes and just accepting that it's just part of human nature, in term of classic group behaviour, to make those kinds of alliances and to toe those kinds of party lines...

 

...you might succeed in changing someone's political views through a forum thread, *if* you're persistent enough to want to keep trying, but ultimately you're probably just going to a lot of effort and risking generating a lot of bad feeling and argument to make day to day life more difficult for them in their particular 'socio-political' environment.

Politics can often just be a bunch of sabre rattling and chest beating and doesn't really say much about actual human nature other than what it can exemplify.

...but that's just my perspective.

[LogicalDrm]

Those who call this forums users better than those on other forums.. How naive you are. Every open forum has its bad people. Those whose main purpose is to cause disturbance. Maybe not always on purpose. But on those few political/religious-related threads I've seen, there are people who just don't seem to realize when they should just tell their opinion and move on. Not to stay and try to shove it down to others throat. One of them claimed to be "scientist" and was attacking against religion.... I wouldn't call that very smart move.

 

In all, its tech forum. We have enough politics when some country (mainly US, AU, UK or DE) makes big decision on digital content or internet, which is posted in news. We don't need every single political ideology or idea floating around.

 

And like Mortis and Wind have said many times. There won't be any subforums to OT. There shouldn't be any need for such on tech forum.

[vanished]

3 hours ago, LoGiCalDrm said:

In all, its tech forum. We have enough politics when some country (mainly US, AU, UK or DE) makes big decision on digital content or internet, which is posted in news. We don't need every single political ideology or idea floating around.

This is a good point too - from time to time a story comes out that has a political side to it and a purely tech side to it, and even then people can't just stick to the tech discussion, hence my earlier comment:

9 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

...And it tends to be something that draws people in...

 

[SansVarnic]

16 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I tend to believe that people are responsible for their own actions and feelings and that they have to deal with them and their consequences with whatever tools they have.

So I guess it was a dumb idea then, whatever. 

It was not a dumb idea, just no longer a relevant one since the few incidents that lead up to the decision to ban such discussions (I cant remember the incident(s) off hand or the picture mentioned above). I honestly likened to the idea but after reading what @Ryan_Vickers , @leadeater and @manikyath pointed out I have to side against the idea. We have had many good political and belief based discussions on this thread since I joined that lasted several tens of pages until that 1 or 2 individuals got involved and it spiraled down hard. I remember having to cut myself off from a few discussion in order to prevent from going to far myself. So yeah there is a fine line here but I believe as a whole the Moderators and Administrators have had enough attempting to put out to many fires that crossed the line in that arena. I also remember when it was taking up so much of their time just moderating those specific threads - way too tiring. I also remember losing a few good members due to some of those discussions  

[PlayStation 2]

There's a whole lot of people who act really childish when it comes to politics.

For that alone it'd be a terrible idea.

[BuckGup]

I think you misspelled flameware forum

[vanished]

3 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I think you misspelled flameware forum

But also *Agree*

[BuckGup]

14 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

But also *Agree*

Lol

[Godlygamer23]

No, this will not happen. I'm not sure how anything will change - the talk about politics was banned because people behaved immaturely, and couldn't hold a civil discussion without flinging insults or treating someone like they're inferior, and this is the result of it. Understand that if people were willing to discuss political topics in a civil manner, this thread probably wouldn't exist at all, so consider this to be a consequence of the immature behavior. A political sub-forum would not result in anything different, nor would it improve the forum in any shape or form.