Future Google OS may not be Android but Fuschia?

[WMGroomAK]

It appears that a UI is beginning to take shape for a future version of a Google OS that will completely dump the Linux Kernel.  Ars Technica has some more information on Google's Fuschia OS, which is being built on top of their Magenta microkernel.  According to Ars Technica:

 

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/googles-fuchsia-smartphone-os-dumps-linux-has-a-wild-new-ui/

 

Quote

Unlike Android and Chrome OS, Fuchsia is not based on Linux—it uses a new, Google-developed microkernel called "Magenta." With Fuchsia, Google would not only be dumping the Linux kernel, but also the GPL: the OS is licensed under a mix of BSD 3 clause, MIT, and Apache 2.0. Dumping Linux might come as a bit of a shock, but the Android ecosystem seems to have no desire to keep up with upstream Linux releases. Even the Google Pixel is still stuck on Linux Kernel 3.18, which was first released at the end of 2014.

 

Google's documentation describes Magenta as targeting "modern phones and modern personal computers with fast processors, non-trivial amounts of RAM with arbitrary peripherals doing open-ended computation." Google hasn't made any public, official comments on why Fuchsia exists or what it is for, leaving us only to speculate. The "modern phone" shout out certainly sounds like something that could eventually compete with Android, but for now the OS is so early, it's hard to tell.

 

Fuchsia is impossible to talk about without mentioning a hundred other related projects that also have code names. The interface and apps are written using Google's Flutter SDK, a project that actually produces cross-platform code that runs on Android and iOS. Flutter apps are written in Dart, Google's reboot of JavaScript which, on mobile, has a focus on high-performance, 120fps apps. It also has a Vulkan-based graphics renderer called "Escher" that lists "Volumetric soft shadows" as one of its features, which seems custom-built to run Google's shadow-heavy "Material Design" interface guidelines

So this seems like a really big, long term project, if Google carries it through to completion, however, this might actually improve the experience of running cross-platform and make for a more stable, more easily maintained and updated environment for a Google OS in the long run...  As Ars point out, this may be a way for Google to fix some of the issues with Android:

Quote

Android was conceived in the days before the iPhone. It started as an OS for cameras, and then became a BlackBerry clone, before being quickly retooled after the iPhone unveiling. With Android, Google is still chained to decisions it made years ago, before it knew anything about managing a mobile OS that ships on billions of smartphones. I'd say the two biggest problems with Android right now are

1. Getting OS updates rolled out across the third-party hardware ecosystem
2. A lack of focus on smooth UI performance.

So who actually wants this to progress and actually see the light of day?  Does anyone think that Google will actually continue to work on this to build a full OS replacement for Chrome OS and Android or will it be used more as a supplement to write cross-platform apps?

 

http://techreport.com/news/31866/google-fuchsia-os-runs-on-a-little-bit-of-magenta

[EunSoo]

huh, interesting... I'm all for it as long as they keep 100% support and compatibility for apps built of the current system.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

and modern personal computers with fast processors, non-trivial amounts of RAM with arbitrary peripherals doing open-ended computation.

Can you translate this? Can I change from windows 7 to this thingy? Can I game on it? Can I run all my older software on it?

[WMGroomAK]

2 minutes ago, Dutch-stoner said:

Can you translate this? Can I change from windows 7 to this thingy? Can I game on it? Can I run all my older software on it?

According to Tech Report, Fuschia currently supports x86 PCs and Qualcomms 835 SoC...  I think that if it is fully developed and supported on hardware, they are hoping to have it replace your desktop and mobile OS.  One of the interesting little things that was also mentioned in the article is that it has a Vulkan based graphics renderer, so it may be possible to game on the OS... As for the older software, that's always a headache to deal with backwards compatibility.  I would hope that they would at least have some kind of extensions that could help out, but who knows this early into development.

[mr moose]

I hope it becomes a thing,  more competition is good. 

[samiscool51]

google drop Android?

thats like saying linus drops products on purpose (i don't think he does, it looks like an accident but it could be a act... people get out your tin foil hats! it's conspiracy time!)

they would never drop it like, it's (i think, i don't know) one of the biggest open source projects to date! so many people use it as their daily device, even if it doesn't make money, you can't do that to such a big ecosystem, even if you added support for apps in something like software mode.

it's most likely Fuschia is going to be used on Android One, google's low-end stock phones, and android will continue to be used on consumer and prosumer phones forever and won't change.

also the play store has more apps than the app store as explained here:

http://www.androidauthority.com/google-play-store-vs-the-apple-app-store-601836/

but this included things like downloads and other stuff as well so take it with a grain of salt.

[Octagoncow]

I really hope Google continues to work on this. The concept looks really promising.

[WMGroomAK]

14 minutes ago, samiscool51 said:

it's most likely Fuschia is going to be used on Android One, google's low-end stock phones, and android will continue to be used on consumer and prosumer phones forever and won't change.

I actually think this will probably supplant Android if they continue development based on the statement below that was in the Ars Technica Article.  It sounds like they will probably be able to keep most Android and iOS apps stable if they are written in the Flutter SDK, which I imagine that Google will push app developers to be using for a while prior to rolling out Fuchsia.  They also mention in the article that this is to target 'modern phones and and PCs with non-trivial amounts of RAM and arbitrary peripherals doing open ended computing.'  My thoughts are that this will probably be Google's attempt to build a stable OS that is easily installed on any computing device that has sufficiently high end specs so that you can easily port across devices all your applications and work.  

2 hours ago, WMGroomAK said:

Fuchsia is impossible to talk about without mentioning a hundred other related projects that also have code names. The interface and apps are written using Google's Flutter SDK, a project that actually produces cross-platform code that runs on Android and iOS. Flutter apps are written in Dart, Google's reboot of JavaScript which, on mobile, has a focus on high-performance, 120fps apps. It also has a Vulkan-based graphics renderer called "Escher" that lists "Volumetric soft shadows" as one of its features, which seems custom-built to run Google's shadow-heavy "Material Design" int

 

[samiscool51]

Just now, WMGroomAK said:

It sounds like they will probably be able to keep most Android and iOS apps stable if they are written in the Flutter SDK, which I imagine that Google will push app developers to be using for a while prior to rolling out Fuchsia

most app developers are what many call, resisters.... they don't want to change anything about their app because they know it works and don't want to throw other variables into it and find a problem that they can't fix due to it being a problem with the SDK and not the app itself, why do you think android is popular, it's opereating system can run both java and C++, most apps are made in java but some are made in C++ and all they have to do to put it onto a different platform, is by porting it, IOS can run C++ code as well as their propriety code apple something, so the app works on both IOS and Android without much work

[handymanshandle]

Oh dear, I hope Google doesn't drop Android.

[Squirrel724]

I doubt we will be seeing android going anywhere for a long time. Maybe this will be implemented into Android but I don't see it ever being replaced without there being some fundamental shift in the way smartphones work.

[zMeul]

Linux has its own issues, but this new OS won't?! wtf is this shit 

if Google drops android means that every apk for Android will be absofuckinglutely useless overnight

 

I do not believe Google are going to replace Android, it would be utter lunacy

but if they do it, I have a feeling their relevance on the market will drop faster than MS' Windows Mobile

[Doobeedoo]

Well, that's very interesting. Though such transition would need to be executed really well to avoid failure. 

And as far as 'two biggest problems with Android now'

1. getting OS updates rolled out across the third-party hardware ecosystem. - Definitely an issue with various devices and so.

2. a lack of focus on smooth UI performance - As far as that, it can depend from device to device, also animations but it needs to be consistent. Sure there will be various devices with different hardware, but as far as software side it needs to be faster and smoother.

[Trixanity]

It still seems like it's some years away from being ready for primetime and if they intend to use it to replace Android, I expect them to put an Android subsystem on top of it for a few years to ease the transition while developers switch their apps over to the new OS. I mean it seems like the approach they took to ChromeOS where an Android subsystem supposedly runs on top of it for Android app support.

 

If this OS is supposed to supersede Android, I would hope it at least has feature parity with Android before they release it. It would suck to lose features when going to a new device. You never want to take a step back.

[Misanthrope]

So they're about to enter the Extinguish phase of Embrace, Expand, Extinguish?

[HarryNyquist]

As if Android smartphones needed MORE OS fragmentation...

[linkboy]

2 minutes ago, HarryNyquist said:

As if Android smartphones needed MORE OS fragmentation...

If anything, this would get rid of the OS fragmentation, as Android would be depreciated and replaced.

 

Google would have tighter control over the OS. Android's openness, while being one of it's biggest strengths,  is also it's biggest weakness. Having tighter control over the OS would definitely help with the OS fragmentation.

 

For example, Google could dictate that custom skins (like Touchwiz) couldn't be used (which is something they currently can't do with Android).

[NumLock21]

Fuschia logo

 

 

 

 

[WMGroomAK]

4 hours ago, Trixanity said:

If this OS is supposed to supersede Android, I would hope it at least has feature parity with Android before they release it. It would suck to lose features when going to a new device. You never want to take a step back.

I would assume that they are working towards the feature parity with having the apps written in Flutter SDK as this SDK supposedly already allows for an easy transition of apps from Android to iOS.  The x86 and snapdragon 835 support make me thing that they are looking at this as a unified OS for desktop and mobile, if not maybe further...  I would hope that they are at least smart enough to have all the current android apps available on it at launch, whenever that may be.  Although, I could see Google rolling this out on some of their lower-end and/or Google Pixel/Nexus/whatever is next device in order to get it some field testing and adoption.

[Trixanity]

28 minutes ago, WMGroomAK said:

I would assume that they are working towards the feature parity with having the apps written in Flutter SDK as this SDK supposedly already allows for an easy transition of apps from Android to iOS.  The x86 and snapdragon 835 support make me thing that they are looking at this as a unified OS for desktop and mobile, if not maybe further...  I would hope that they are at least smart enough to have all the current android apps available on it at launch, whenever that may be.  Although, I could see Google rolling this out on some of their lower-end and/or Google Pixel/Nexus/whatever is next device in order to get it some field testing and adoption.

I was also referring to OS features. I doubt the SDK can do much for system level stuff (excluding system APKs).

[YamiYukiSenpai]

I wonder if Fuchsia is what Android will become few years from now.

If that were to be the case, I'm worried for Linux because it won't be the dominant platform anymore (not that many realize that Android (at its heart) is Linux).

[Mira Yurizaki]

The reason why Google wants to move away from Android is so they can maintain the OS on their own terms among other things. Being tied down to Linux means that anything they do with the Linux kernel they must release as GPL. It also means they have to wait for the Linux maintainers to do something "official" before releasing a new kernel. Or whatever. Either way, they don't have control of the core part of the OS. Also, Android was built in the dawn of smartphones when nobody knew what a smartphone should do. As a result, you have the issue of maintaining certain design decisions (EDIT: I believe Stage Fright was a result of an antiquated design decision) simply because you cannot escape from them without pulling the wrong thread and having too many things collapse.

 

I would also wager that Android's app ecosystem is not tied down to Linux all that much. Considering that the ecosystem is built very much like Java's and .NET's, it shouldn't be a problem creating a runtime environment for a new OS environment. Either way, Apple managed to as painlessly as possible transition everyone from Mac OS 9 and its old APIs to the UNIX environment. Google can do the same thing with Fuchsia and Android, albeit probably in a more elegant fashion if this is really needed.

 

tl;dr, I highly doubt this is going to be a disaster.

[randomhkkid]

Android was internal to Google for 5+ years before release. Fushia has only been in development for roughly 2 years so I wouldn't expect release for another few years at least.

 

Slightly concerned that we'll lose even more of the ability for community based ROMs as code becomes more proprietary.

[Mira Yurizaki]

21 minutes ago, randomhkkid said:

Slightly concerned that we'll lose even more of the ability for community based ROMs as code becomes more proprietary.

Fuchsia is BSD3, MIT, and Apache 2.0 licensed.

 

I mean, the userland stuff may be closed off, but the OS itself is not proprietary.

[Granular]

People don't care about freedom and phone manufacturers care about denying it to them to a degree that it's apparently worthwhile to write a non-copyleft competitor to Android from scratch. Sad.