Microsoft further cracks down on Kaby Lake and Ryzen usage on Windows 7 and 8.1

[H0R53]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

Why?  They're a corporation trying to make money.

because companies who care about their customers make more money

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, H0R53 said:

Wrong on more levels than you know

 

I have a custom kernel on my S4 geared towards battery and undervolting, it's not hard, go on XDA forums and you'll see. Android is open sauce, you can do whatever the fuck you want with it

 

Windows 10 has so many useless built in apps and services that are randomly running they affect performance. On a fresh install of 7, on 4gb of RAM idle at maybe 15% usage, and 0% CPU. W10, random ass spikes in disk and CPU, fans spin up unnecesarily, etc. 50% CPU, 25% ram at any given time on same system

 

FTFY

 

Again, every iteration of the Windows kernel performs slower than the last, not better. Windows XP x64 will be 50x faster than W10, hands down. Now Xp only supports DX9 max, so that's a bummer. In many ways it is, except for DX10 and DX11 support is nil. Other than that...

 

The point I made from the beginning

 

Devs are too lazy to make GUIs and then use CURL anyway

 

Not the point.

 

Doubt that

 

Not just Ryzen. It handles my Xeon better and dual CPUs in either AMD or Intel better

Believe what you want. It's not my problem. 

 

Great, but neither Android nor Samsung is supporting Jelly Bean on modern hardware. You could also sit here and develop your own updates for a KL W7 system. 

 

Try reinstalling then, I've had the same problems on W7 as well. 

 

It's worse because it wasn't designed for Ryzen's architecture. Mkay. 

 

The kernel being slower doesn't make it worse, unless you would like to claim that XP is superior to W7, W8.1, and W10. Windows XP is only superior in the sense that it's lighter -- but there's more to an OS than how lightweight it is. 

[H0R53]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

That's no company.  All companies care about is your wallet.  MS is probably the biggest company on the planet, and they don't care about you.

Actually, that would be Alphabet, the parent company of Google.

[Doobeedoo]

Why would anyone buy new system now or later on with new hardware and install old OSs as such anyway.

[GatioH]

I tried win7 with my g4560 and it just kept black screening until I installed win10  and this was on launch week!

[Nowak]

4 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Why would anyone buy new system now or later on with new hardware and install old OSs as such anyway.

Some people prefer 7 or 8.1 over 10.

 

Well, more like a lot of people.

[H0R53]

1 minute ago, Doobeedoo said:

Why would anyone buy new system now or later on with new hardware and install old OSs as such anyway.

Because they like it. That's why I am still on 7. I like being able to have custom themes, custom boot screens, and more Windows tweaks than you can count. I like being able to disable whatever I want without having an annoying notification at boot. I like how the OS looks, how it feels, and on my hardware in particular my performance is astounding. Yeah I may not have DX 12 or better multiscreen functions but windows 7 has programs for that! As a matter of fact more programs run on Windows 7 today than any other MS OS.

[79wjd]

Just now, Daring said:

Some people prefer 7 or 8.1 over 10.

 

Well, more like a lot of people.

People also don't like change and people also believe that W7 doesn't have telemetry in it. 

[H0R53]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

People also don't like change and people also believe that W7 doesn't have telemetry in it. 

It does, but not as much as 8 or 10. It can easily be disabled from "disable windows features" and the Control panel - no registry edits or system files have to be deleted and there's nothing intrusive about it anyway, unlike 8 or 10.

[captain_to_fire]

2 hours ago, Daring said:

I say it right in the OP, this is purely a business decision and is not intended to benefit the end user in any way.

I'm expecting two people to jump in and defend Microsoft at this one while saying Windows 10 is the best and people should just suck it. 

[captain_to_fire]

58 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

People also don't like change and people also believe that W7 doesn't have telemetry in it. 

Telemetry is good if implemented properly and gives the user knowledge what is being collected and where the data will go. For example, Spotify and iTunes is using Telemetry to match songs you probably like based on your playing history. But Windows 10 seems to collect too much and it includes personal information to stamp the data they've collected. Not so with other platforms like Apple where no personal info is stamped with telemetry data, you can actually disable telemetry at all. 

Spoiler

 

In fact, you can't send feedback using the Windows Feedback app on the Creators Update if you've set your telemetry options to Basic, you have to go full which is ludicrous. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by hey_yo_
Added pictures

[Cracklingice]

I wonder just how many they've managed to get dropped already.  I mean surely there had to be at least a dozen already.  Microsoft sold a product that the end user could continue to use as they upgraded their PC until the end of it's life and they changed the terms.  They basically took half the product away so they could force users into a single version with capabilities that should not exist as mandatory or even as default on in any device.  It's been wrong in phones for a decade now and it's still wrong in desktops.

[Nowak]

Edited the thread title, this sounds way better to me.

[mr moose]

this is kinda old news (have seen it be a problem in the wild for few months now). The worse thing MS did was not pre warn customers of the conflict.  A few Consultants I have spoken to have said it is a hardware thing more than intentional gimping from MS as it requires they go back and perform major updates to the old kernel to get it to work on new hardware.    

 

It's a piss off, but in reality it's not different to having to buy a new tablet because all the apps you want require the latest version of the OS which your hardware will not run. 

[demonix00]

36 minutes ago, rrubberr said:

Jokes on you, Billy, you can't lock me out if I'm using hardware THAT WAS RELEASED AT THE SAME TIME AS WINDOWS 7! Eck eck eck eck eck.

Considering several people with hardware that was released around the same time as windows 7 got the unsupported hardware message, you should be hoping that this new update doesn't gift you the unsupported hardware window of doom after you installation.

[79wjd]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

The worse thing MS did was not pre warn customers of the conflict.

It was known that W7/8.1 wouldn't support Kaby Lake from before Kaby Lake launched. 

[yian88]

4 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

In fairness, Microsoft said from day one that Kaby Lake wouldn't be supported by W7/8.1.

 

I don't see why Microsoft should be expected to support new hardware on an old OS (if they clearly stated before that new hardware launched that it wouldn't be supported).

 

No one likes my analogy apparently. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I also don't really have a problem with this, I don't expect the car I bought last year to support this years engine.

 

You are barking at the wrong tree.

Its not microsoft that has to support new CPU's, its the hardware manufacturers, intel and AMD that have to provide drivers, yet microsoft strong armed both of them to make this scum move and announce ryzen, kaby lake and beyond as not supported except on Win10, but they work perfectly under win7/8 OS'es without MS support.

 

Soon they will do the same to GPU's mark my words, if MS wont invade nvidia,amd,intel new GPU's and force them to only support W10 with new releases, thats the final nail in the coffin for Microsoft windows, at least from my point of view, Win10 is not usable period, spyware,adware,malware and they ask you 100$ + for a copy no ty.

Bla bla bla google does same thing, bla bla bla apple too, news flash iOS and Android are free you dont pay for them and i have serious doubts unles proven otherwise that google and apple scan personal info and documents and track everything you type on your phone and upload telemetry, unlike Microsoft which has been proven they even tracked every key press and upload something to a MS server each time.

 

Also not to mention again for a milionth time all the problems and flaws in Windows that werent fixed since Vista/7, and how W10 has become a big bloatware mess, and the useless Store/UWP ecosystem, meh, the only reason your Windows runs fast is because you have a good SSD, try that with an HDD and you will hate your life. Do the same with a lightweight linux distro and behold the miracle, no fucking performance hogs and bloatware old since win 95/98.

 

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, yian88 said:

You are barking at the wrong tree.

Its not microsoft that has to support new CPU's, its the hardware manufacturers, intel and AMD that have to provide drivers, yet microsoft strong armed both of them to make this scum move and announce ryzen, kaby lake and beyond as not supported except on Win10, but they work perfectly under win7/8 OS'es without MS support.

 

Soon they will do the same to GPU's mark my words, if MS wont invade nvidia,amd,intel new GPU's and force them to only support W10 with new releases, thats the final nail in the coffin for Microsoft windows, at least from my point of view, Win10 is not usable period, spyware,adware,malware and they ask you 100$ + for a copy no ty.

Bla bla bla google does same thing, bla bla bla apple too, news flash iOS and Android are free you dont pay for them and i have serious doubts unles proven otherwise that google and apple scan personal info and documents and track everything you type on your phone and upload telemetry, unlike Microsoft which has been proven they even tracked every key press and upload something to a MS server each time.

 

Also not to mention again for a milionth time all the problems and flaws in Windows that werent fixed since Vista/7, and how W10 has become a big bloatware mess, and the useless Store/UWP ecosystem, meh, the only reason your Windows runs fast is because you have a good SSD, try that with an HDD and you will hate your life. Do the same with a lightweight linux distro and behold the miracle, no fucking performance hogs and bloatware old since win 95/98.

 

Microsoft also has to validate updates for KL. 

 

Windows 7/8.1 also have telemetry in them. I've been using W10 for about a year and I don't find it anymore annoying to use than W7 or W8.1. 

 

I've ran W10 on an HDD and it runs better and faster than W7 ever did. Yes, Linux is better, other than the lack of software support and the fact that Windows is easier to use than Linux. I personally hate Windows and I only use it when I want to game, otherwise I use macOS 99.99% of the time.

[yian88]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

... otherwise I use macOS 99.99% of the time.

macOS is not even an option in any situation, it only works with mac books sold by apple(already tried countless time to install macOS on intel pc, wont work), so you either get a mac book or pretend macOS doesnt exist period

 

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, yian88 said:

macOS is not even an option in any situation, it only works with mac books sold by apple(already tried countless time to install macOS on intel pc, wont work), so you either get a mac book or pretend macOS doesnt exist period

 

You can most definitely install macOS on a normal desktop, you just have to have patience or choose perfectly compatible hardware. Hackintosh is most definitely a thing. Although, I just use a rMBP. 

[Remixt]

2 hours ago, valdyrgramr said:

The problem with Linux is that it's a lot less user-friendly than Windows.  Sure, you have support, better security, and so on!  However, you're lacking heavy developer support backed by having to use a terminal quite a lot for commands.  Do you really think people actually want to deal with the terminal when they can just click buttons on Windows that do the same thing?  If Linux wasn't too dependent on the terminal and had more developer support then yes more people would switch to it.

All of that would be solved with global adoption though. Developer support wouldn't have anywhere to go because Microsoft would be sent into oblivion.

[Misanthrope]

26 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Microsoft also has to validate updates for KL. 

 

Windows 7/8.1 also have telemetry in them. I've been using W10 for about a year and I don't find it anymore annoying to use than W7 or W8.1. 

 

I've ran W10 on an HDD and it runs better and faster than W7 ever did. Yes, Linux is better, other than the lack of software support and the fact that Windows is easier to use than Linux. I personally hate Windows and I only use it when I want to game, otherwise I use macOS 99.99% of the time.

Couple of kinks:

 

It was my understanding that Windows 7 got the telemetry stuff baked in on a later update. I don't mention it cause it's kind of the point of this thread anyway, no updates, but if you are adamant enough about no telemetry a windows 7 install that doesn't gets a chance to update will not have the telemetry, afaik but I could be totally wrong.

 

Second Linux is harder to use but it's usually precisely because very poor manufacturer driver support. The Linux community basically takes care of the enterprise stuff first but the consumer stuff, chief among them GPUs but also webcams, consumer wireless cards, etc. Have abyssal support and often show stopping bugs due to driver installation, free drivers that work around reverse engineering and yes more than a bit of stubbornness in trying to keep Linux free of proprietary stuff (i.e. the most popular distro after Mint, Ubuntu, are damn stubborn at not activating proprietary drivers for GPUs and such by default causing unnecessary headaches for newbies)

 

So actually no I don't think Linux is the solution at all: You'd need a really heavy hitter to get behind it and even when that happened with Valve they basically squandered away all the support and momentum due to their extreme lack of organization and bullshit corporate culture of not fucking delivering on time a.k.a. Valve time killed SteamOS

[Donut417]

5 hours ago, Daring said:

Keep in mind that Windows 7 and 8.1 are still supported by Microsoft, with 8.1 still under mainstream support, so Microsoft is effectively ditching Windows 8.1 customers.

Windows 7 for sure is not under mainstream support. Windows 7 should be under extended support, which means only security updates, no more major feature updates. 

[Princess Luna]

5 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I don't see why Microsoft should be expected to support new hardware on an old OS (if they clearly stated before that new hardware launched that it wouldn't be supported).

 

 

No one likes my analogy apparently. 

 

I really agree with you, I can't understand why people buying the latest hardware is making such a fuzzle about not being able to use a really old and outdated OS, especially when you have plenty of ways to make win10 be, look and act exactly like win7.

 

I do feel people are making a far too storm on the glass of water here, it is just progression, things can't be the same forever, that is stagnation. Microsoft is no evil corp just because the newest CPUs are supported by the newest OS, that is like... logic

 

Besides I've been using Win10 and I really like it, I insist on how editing it to be like win7 it becomes the best OS there is.

[Misanthrope]

9 minutes ago, Remixt said:

All of that would be solved with global adoption though. Developer support wouldn't have anywhere to go because Microsoft would be sent into oblivion.

Actually Microsoft would be just fine without the consumer market for PC gamers because

 

1) They actually make more with the Azure stuff and other corporate business and

2) Because of 1) that pretty much guarantees the continued existence of desktop and laptop OS because virtually every single office in the world would still depend on Microsoft products and every single one of those persons who work daily on Microsoft OS to use Microsoft products would continue to feel more comfortable on Windows even when at home.

 

So I wish and don't think it's impossible that Microsoft would let go of the PC gaming Market. They have never succeeded at cornering the PC gaming market in a way that makes them any fucking money at all and with Valve pretty much establishing an unbeatable monster with Steam they probably never will get there.

 

I suspect Satya Nadella knows this but still can't wrestle away the old guard in Microsoft that still thinks they can win the gaming PC. Eventually he will probably get his way and the next product will be an xbox branded UI that can just play games either on a console or a PC even without Windows as the OS.