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Intel tells Core i7-7700K owners to stop overclocking

Mr.Meerkat
12 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Actually, is it just me or does Devil's Canyon have a better TIM+IHS setup than Kabylake? Because it has an effective higher TDP+power consumption due to the FIVR, and can reach 4.8GHz @ 1.35V with a 120mm AIO that is working correctly (mine leaked/had the water evaporate so R.I.P Seidon 120V). And hit 4.6GHz safely on a Pentium 4 540J's (Presscott/Presshott) stock cooler with 6.8 W/(mK) thermal grease (gotta love Meccano, it has all that you need to adapt LGA775 coolers safely).

Yup, Devil's Canyon was just a refresh to correct the fuckup with the TIM of Haswell i think aside from that everything else is exactly the same. I am running a 4690K @ 4.5 Ghz with 1.30vCore with a 240mm liquid cooler and under load it and barely reaches 50C on a hot day.

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13 hours ago, N1ghtshade said:

No, you would definitely not be an idiot, considering the 7700k is still less expensive than a 1700, and does better in gaming.

Not a performance difference you will see outside of 1080p 144Hz territory and even then you can't really perceive a frame difference between 130 and 140 fps.

 

Price... wut?

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3kPzK8/amd-ryzen-7-1700-30ghz-8-core-processor-yd1700bbaebox

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/VKx9TW/intel-core-i7-7700k-42ghz-quad-core-processor-bx80677i77700k

 

You can ignore X models they are irrelevant as all Ryzens are unlocked and perform very near equally, my 1700 is at 4GHz.

 

Now that's just the cpus lets go further boys and girls! Those CPUs gotta go in something right?

 

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($316.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $405.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 06:54 EDT-0400

 

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($337.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($24.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z270-A PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($92.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $454.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 06:56 EDT-0400

 

$50 cheaper for twice the cores/threads, a new architecture and platform vs the aging LGA1151, massively better multithreaded performance with ~10% loss single threaded performance, the ability to multi task and the ability to stream with the best quality and no fps drop. Note here I was trying to be fair to Intel I chose a very basic cooler you won't get much of an OC if any on the hyper 212 Evo but to demonstrate that one is required is necessary. Whereas the soldered R7 1700 can get around an 800Mhz overclock (that's a 27% overclock nothing to be sniffed at) on the stock cooler. To put this in perspective a 7700k @ 5GHz is a 19% overclock. When you factor in the kind of cooler the 7700k with its garbage TIM actually requires you are more looking at the $100 price mark which blows the price difference wide open in the R7's favour. So much so that with the money you save ~$150 you could go up a GPU tier which would make waaaaay more of a difference than single threaded performance disparity.

 

So despite popular opinion in % terms the 1700 is a much better overclocker than the 7700k.

 

7700k @ 5GHz is a 19% overclock

1700 @ 4GHz is a 34% overclock

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I remember when overclocking used to be a lottery, some chips did others didn't.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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45 minutes ago, Paragon_X said:

Yup, Devil's Canyon was just a refresh to correct the fuckup with the TIM of Haswell i think aside from that everything else is exactly the same. I am running a 4690K @ 4.5 Ghz with 1.30vCore with a 240mm liquid cooler and under load it and barely reaches 50C on a hot day.

Devils Canyon also has a refined power delivery system.

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10 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I remember when overclocking used to be a lottery, some chips did others didn't.

I remember when overclocking was for free gains and not a premium priced feature.

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7 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

I remember when overclocking was for free gains and not a premium priced feature.

It wasn't free, you always had to pay more for a better motherboard that had the features/stability.

EDIT: and sometimes a better PSU.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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1 minute ago, mr moose said:

It wasn't free, you always had to pay more for a better motherboard that had the features/stability.

Not really, I had a cheapo Asus motherboard on my Intel Core2Duo E7500 2,9ghz running on 3,5ghz using stock cooling lol

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1 hour ago, Paragon_X said:

Yup, Devil's Canyon was just a refresh to correct the fuckup with the TIM of Haswell i think aside from that everything else is exactly the same. I am running a 4690K @ 4.5 Ghz with 1.30vCore with a 240mm liquid cooler and under load it and barely reaches 50C on a hot day.

I'm running a 4790K under an early LGA775 Pentium 4 stock cooler (think 2004, with very limited PWM control), and at 4.6GHz 1.326V (auto) the package temp is at most 75oC. With cores 1 through 3 maxing out at 70-73oC, core 0 spiking at 77oC (that's modded Skyrim for you) and the fan staying at the minimum speed of approximately 2200RPM with the maximum being 3300RPM (it is based around an early version of PWM so I can deal with it).

22 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Not really, I had a cheapo Asus motherboard on my Intel Core2Duo E7500 2,9ghz running on 3,5ghz using stock cooling lol

Seeing a C2D E8500 hitting 4.4GHz on the same shitty Asus P5K VM that was previously running a P4 630 (with an aftermarket cooler for come reason that was worse than stock) was glorious. Though in games such as Skyrim, even at 4.4GHz it did worse than my Xeon X5450 at stock (3GHz).

 

Edit: That's 4.6GHz across all 4 cores, not heavily staggered from 4.2GHz to 4.6/4.7 like I'd normally do.

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15 hours ago, N1ghtshade said:

Ryzen is decent for gaming, 7700k is better

7700k is decent for productivity stuff, Ryzen is better

 

it's more like this

 

Product 1 does A really well, and does B decently also

Product 2 does B really well, and does A decently also

"decent" lol what? 

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16 hours ago, N1ghtshade said:

Ryzen is decent for gaming, 7700k is better

7700k is decent for productivity stuff, Ryzen is better

 

it's more like this

 

Product 1 does A really well, and does B decently also

Product 2 does B really well, and does A decently also

Sounds to me like

 

Product 1 does A really well, and is marginally worse at B

Product 2 busts a thick nut all over product 1 in B, but receives a little nut back in A

 

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16 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I'll just say it because someone else will: Intel, stop using crappy TIM underneath the IHS and solder the damn thing to the processor.

A million fucking times yes. Even my fucking G3258 will hit 70C under a goddamn H115i, regardless of pump and fan speed. And it's not like my OC is retarded (4.5 at 1.325 volts), so the damn thing isn't just dumping heat.

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14 hours ago, Valentyn said:

At the time of Pentium Extreme Editions also being $999, it really was!

I was a "cheap" bastard and got the 4400+ myself; bloody thing lasted years! Had it until I gave the system to a friend before building an Intel E8500 system. Still kicking myself for not getting the Q6600 to pair with my 8800GTX :(

 

I miss the days of proper competition.  Even AMD's 3800 and 4200 budget chips could punch into Intel's EE CPU performance and exceed sometimes.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/1676/7

Damn, I always forget how expensive things used to be...

 

I miss those days too man. It's a crying shame it's not like that anymore, with AMD being able to take bites out of Intel's market. I remember back when the Athlon 64 was released. Man, that was the shit. If you didn't have an Athlon, you were gonna get rekt. Intel CPUs just couldn't compare because of how damn good that thing was. Those were the days...

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15 hours ago, Cartoons Plural said:

Maybe he uses function A more than he uses function B?

Seemed to me like he was saying that because he liked product B more, product A was obsolete

"There is a fine line between not listening, and not caring. I'd like to think I walk that line every day of my life."

 

 

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2 hours ago, tom_w141 said:

Not a performance difference you will see outside of 1080p 144Hz territory and even then you can't really perceive a frame difference between 130 and 140 fps.

 

Price... wut?

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/3kPzK8/amd-ryzen-7-1700-30ghz-8-core-processor-yd1700bbaebox

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/VKx9TW/intel-core-i7-7700k-42ghz-quad-core-processor-bx80677i77700k

 

You can ignore X models they are irrelevant as all Ryzens are unlocked and perform very near equally, my 1700 is at 4GHz.

 

Now that's just the cpus lets go further boys and girls! Those CPUs gotta go in something right?

 

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($316.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: ASRock AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $405.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 06:54 EDT-0400

 

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PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($337.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler  ($24.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z270-A PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($92.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $454.86
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-05-05 06:56 EDT-0400

 

$50 cheaper for twice the cores/threads, a new architecture and platform vs the aging LGA1151, massively better multithreaded performance with ~10% loss single threaded performance, the ability to multi task and the ability to stream with the best quality and no fps drop. Note here I was trying to be fair to Intel I chose a very basic cooler you won't get much of an OC if any on the hyper 212 Evo but to demonstrate that one is required is necessary. Whereas the soldered R7 1700 can get around an 800Mhz overclock (that's a 27% overclock nothing to be sniffed at) on the stock cooler. To put this in perspective a 7700k @ 5GHz is a 19% overclock. When you factor in the kind of cooler the 7700k with its garbage TIM actually requires you are more looking at the $100 price mark which blows the price difference wide open in the R7's favour. So much so that with the money you save ~$150 you could go up a GPU tier which would make waaaaay more of a difference than single threaded performance disparity.

 

So despite popular opinion in % terms the 1700 is a much better overclocker than the 7700k.

 

7700k @ 5GHz is a 19% overclock

1700 @ 4GHz is a 34% overclock

No, there's still a decently sized frame gap.

 

And you do know that the 7700k has a lot more motherboards that are less expensive? Yeah, not all you can overclock on, but Ryzen still has very few options, and there isn't even any mITX boards for Ryzen atm.

 

Yeah, I'll give that one to you, the 1700 is a better overclocker. But the thing is, because the stock clock speed is lower, it's gonna be much harder to get it to the same point a 7700k could do. Like you showed, the 7700k got to 5ghz, whereas the 1700 was at 4ghz, 0.2 ghz under the 7700k stock clock speed, and with a pretty big 1ghz difference between the two. And I agree, the 7700k has garbage TIM. They should have soldered it. But despite all this, it's still competitive with Ryzen. It has the best single threaded performance out of any other CPU, which makes it damn good for gaming, and just that. Which is what it's meant for. It's supposed to whoop ass at gaming, whereas Ryzen is supposed to whoop ass at productivity tasks. Imo it's not really fair comparing the two, seeing as they were intended for different uses.

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15 minutes ago, N1ghtshade said:

No, there's still a decently sized frame gap.

 

And you do know that the 7700k has a lot more motherboards that are less expensive? Yeah, not all you can overclock on, but Ryzen still has very few options, and there isn't even any mITX boards for Ryzen atm.

Frame gap not as bad as Intel would have you think and only visible at high refresh rates where frame difference is near if not indistinguishable to the eye. If you play <100fps or on higher resolutions then there is no frame difference. Also when games finally start to make use of multi core CPUs you may well see the difference turn the other way, this combined with the multitasking/streaming capability makes the Ryzen line up a better choice than kaby lake. Unless the only thing you do is game at 144HZ 1080p with no other applications running and even then that only applies to the 7700k not the 7600k which is crippled by the 1600 on price/performance and future viability.

 

That was the cheapest Z270 motherboard pc part picker had to offer so you won't get the price gap smaller than that. Saying you can buy a 7700k and a non overclocking motherboard is like saying you can buy a sports car and never drive above 20 mph, it's an awful response. You could argue Z170 but that would require a skylake cpu to update the bios so I won't count it as its not possible for everyone.

 

EDIT: no itx boards yet ok... How is that an argument? For a start its wrong anyway xD biostar has one and secondly just because something isn't out yet doesn't mean its not coming.

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1 hour ago, N1ghtshade said:

Damn, I always forget how expensive things used to be...

 

I miss those days too man. It's a crying shame it's not like that anymore, with AMD being able to take bites out of Intel's market. I remember back when the Athlon 64 was released. Man, that was the shit. If you didn't have an Athlon, you were gonna get rekt. Intel CPUs just couldn't compare because of how damn good that thing was. Those were the days...

 

I got the Athlon 640 3200+, on socket 754. 

The damn thing is still alive; and still works. Got it wrapped in bubblewrap in storage.

 

 

Makes you wonder what the market would be like if Intel wasn't busy bribing OEMS to not use AMD products.

I hope this time round AMD can secure major OEM support, it's vital for Ryzen to be a success.

1375915_538362319569593_1080596592_n.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

 

I got the Athlon 640 3200+, on socket 754. 

The damn thing is still alive; and still works. Got it wrapped in bubblewrap in storage.

 

 

Makes you wonder what the market would be like if Intel wasn't busy bribing OEMS to not use AMD products.

I hope this time round AMD can secure major OEM support, it's vital for Ryzen to be a success.

1375915_538362319569593_1080596592_n.jpg

Damn, that is a vintage system. Nice man!

 

And true, I hope AMD regains their hold in the market so Intel has some competition

"There is a fine line between not listening, and not caring. I'd like to think I walk that line every day of my life."

 

 

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1 hour ago, tom_w141 said:

Frame gap not as bad as Intel would have you think and only visible at high refresh rates where frame difference is near if not indistinguishable to the eye. If you play <100fps or on higher resolutions then there is no frame difference. Also when games finally start to make use of multi core CPUs you may well see the difference turn the other way, this combined with the multitasking/streaming capability makes the Ryzen line up a better choice than kaby lake. Unless the only thing you do is game at 144HZ 1080p with no other applications running and even then that only applies to the 7700k not the 7600k which is crippled by the 1600 on price/performance and future viability.

 

That was the cheapest Z270 motherboard pc part picker had to offer so you won't get the price gap smaller than that. Saying you can buy a 7700k and a non overclocking motherboard is like saying you can buy a sports car and never drive above 20 mph, it's an awful response. You could argue Z170 but that would require a skylake cpu to update the bios so I won't count it as its not possible for everyone.

 

EDIT: no itx boards yet ok... How is that an argument? For a start its wrong anyway xD biostar has one and secondly just because something isn't out yet doesn't mean its not coming.

From all the benchmarks I've seen, it's pretty distinguishable, but that's just me. And games will only start using more cores/threads when devs are convinced to develop games that utilize it. Which might happen, but I doubt it, seeing as everyone who doesn't have a high core count CPU will be left behind on performance, which is something I doubt they want.

 

And yes, I know this. But Ryzen has little selection for motherboards, and even worse selection for coolers. There's not much variation, and not much choice.

 

And yeah, there's 1, count em 1, mITX AM4 mobos out. That is pitiful. What if you wanted to do a compact gaming rig with Ryzen? You're basically fucked, seeing as the biostar board sucks ass and is the only one out.

"There is a fine line between not listening, and not caring. I'd like to think I walk that line every day of my life."

 

 

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4 hours ago, N1ghtshade said:

From all the benchmarks I've seen, it's pretty distinguishable, but that's just me. And games will only start using more cores/threads when devs are convinced to develop games that utilize it. Which might happen, but I doubt it, seeing as everyone who doesn't have a high core count CPU will be left behind on performance, which is something I doubt they want.

 

And yes, I know this. But Ryzen has little selection for motherboards, and even worse selection for coolers. There's not much variation, and not much choice.

 

And yeah, there's 1, count em 1, mITX AM4 mobos out. That is pitiful. What if you wanted to do a compact gaming rig with Ryzen? You're basically fucked, seeing as the biostar board sucks ass and is the only one out.

Yes it will happen, its called progress. Its people who think like you that stagnate and stall development of technology.

 

Poor selection?

 

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/

 

Yep no CPU coolers either dang :/

 

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu-cooler/

 

Yes there is 1 NOW, more will follow by the end of the year how do you not understand that lmao...

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

Yes it will happen, its called progress. Its people who think like you that stagnate and stall development of technology.

 

Poor selection?

 

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/

 

Yep no CPU coolers either dang :/

 

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu-cooler/

 

Yes there is 1 NOW, more will follow by the end of the year how do you not understand that lmao...

 

 

 

Totally 100%. Once devs start developing games that really take advantage of high core count CPUs, then you can come to me and say "neener neener I was right". Until then, it is speculation. You cannot objectively say it will happen, as you can't predict the future.

 

And you're dumb, you literally just sent me to a page full of 1151 mobos. Congrats, you played yourself.

 

And there's only 2 pages of AM4 coolers... whereas there's 7 pages of LGA coolers...

 

M8 I get it you like Ryzen. I do too. But when you link someone to a site that disproves your own point, that's a little sad...

 

 

And yeah, I know there will be. But we're talking right now. Plus, by the end of the year there still won't be as much mITX AM4 selection as there is miTX LGA1151

 

 

Screenshot 2017-05-05 at 1.15.13 PM.png

"There is a fine line between not listening, and not caring. I'd like to think I walk that line every day of my life."

 

 

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Desktop:

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CPU: Ryzen 5 2600X w/stock cooler, Motherboard: MSI X370 GAMING PLUS, RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 24gb DDR4-2600, GPU: EVGA RTX 2070 SUPER XC, Case: NZXT S340, PSU: Corsair RMx 750w, Keyboard: Corsair K50, Mouse: Corsair Ironclaw

Laptop:

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Lenovo IdeaPad S540

 

 

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23 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

I'll just say it because someone else will: Intel, stop using crappy TIM underneath the IHS and solder the damn thing to the processor.

I don't think they can solder it....

http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K | Motherboard: AsRock X99 Extreme4 | Graphics Card: Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 Gaming | RAM: 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws4 2133MHz | Storage: 1 x Samsung 860 EVO 1TB | 1 x WD Green 2TB | 1 x WD Blue 500GB | PSU: Corsair RM750x | Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro (White) | Cooling: Arctic Freezer i32

 

Mice: Logitech G Pro X Superlight (main), Logitech G Pro Wireless, Razer Viper Ultimate, Zowie S1 Divina Blue, Zowie FK1-B Divina Blue, Logitech G Pro (3366 sensor), Glorious Model O, Razer Viper Mini, Logitech G305, Logitech G502, Logitech G402

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4 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

I don't think they can solder it....

http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

What about all the older CPUs that were soldered and still work fine? I believe Sandy Bridge was soldered and many people still have Sandy Bridges that work well still

"There is a fine line between not listening, and not caring. I'd like to think I walk that line every day of my life."

 

 

Spoiler

Desktop:

Spoiler

CPU: Ryzen 5 2600X w/stock cooler, Motherboard: MSI X370 GAMING PLUS, RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 24gb DDR4-2600, GPU: EVGA RTX 2070 SUPER XC, Case: NZXT S340, PSU: Corsair RMx 750w, Keyboard: Corsair K50, Mouse: Corsair Ironclaw

Laptop:

Spoiler

Lenovo IdeaPad S540

 

 

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Just now, N1ghtshade said:

What about all the older CPUs that were soldered and still work fine? I believe Sandy Bridge was soldered and many people still have Sandy Bridges that work well still

Exactly, but Sandy Bridge was 32nm and its die was huge ;)

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K | Motherboard: AsRock X99 Extreme4 | Graphics Card: Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 Gaming | RAM: 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws4 2133MHz | Storage: 1 x Samsung 860 EVO 1TB | 1 x WD Green 2TB | 1 x WD Blue 500GB | PSU: Corsair RM750x | Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro (White) | Cooling: Arctic Freezer i32

 

Mice: Logitech G Pro X Superlight (main), Logitech G Pro Wireless, Razer Viper Ultimate, Zowie S1 Divina Blue, Zowie FK1-B Divina Blue, Logitech G Pro (3366 sensor), Glorious Model O, Razer Viper Mini, Logitech G305, Logitech G502, Logitech G402

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Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

Exactly, but Sandy Bridge was 32nm and its die was huge ;)

And?

"There is a fine line between not listening, and not caring. I'd like to think I walk that line every day of my life."

 

 

Spoiler

Desktop:

Spoiler

CPU: Ryzen 5 2600X w/stock cooler, Motherboard: MSI X370 GAMING PLUS, RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 24gb DDR4-2600, GPU: EVGA RTX 2070 SUPER XC, Case: NZXT S340, PSU: Corsair RMx 750w, Keyboard: Corsair K50, Mouse: Corsair Ironclaw

Laptop:

Spoiler

Lenovo IdeaPad S540

 

 

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Just now, N1ghtshade said:

And?

Read the article...:

http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

Spoiler

Micro cracks in solder preforms can damage the CPU permanently after a certain amount of thermal cycles and time. Conventional thermal paste doesn’t perform as good as the solder preform but it should have a longer durability – especially for small size DIE CPUs.

 

CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K | Motherboard: AsRock X99 Extreme4 | Graphics Card: Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1 Gaming | RAM: 16GB G.Skill Ripjaws4 2133MHz | Storage: 1 x Samsung 860 EVO 1TB | 1 x WD Green 2TB | 1 x WD Blue 500GB | PSU: Corsair RM750x | Case: Phanteks Enthoo Pro (White) | Cooling: Arctic Freezer i32

 

Mice: Logitech G Pro X Superlight (main), Logitech G Pro Wireless, Razer Viper Ultimate, Zowie S1 Divina Blue, Zowie FK1-B Divina Blue, Logitech G Pro (3366 sensor), Glorious Model O, Razer Viper Mini, Logitech G305, Logitech G502, Logitech G402

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