Which one should I get Ryzen or i7?

[Denis_Twin]

Hey, I was wondering which one is better ryzen or i7 and which one specifically?

The needs:

Gaming High End Games (paired with an gtx980 4gb) as well as streaming, 3D modeling (digital sculpting) and photoshop.

80% of the time gaming -/+ streaming though on demanding cpu intensive online games.

The Goal: Very Smooth Gameplay, Good multitasking, able to handle normal streaming at the same time (in regards to settings, nothing too special for streaming, just the basic and most acceptable quality, currently I only use a small fraction of my cpu for streaming and it is looking decent).

Just name something and elaborate why you recommend it.

 

Budget: we are focusing on one CPU now and build around it. anything above 400 bucks seems expensive currently but I am open to suggestions, since we are talking about specifically i7 and ryzen we cannot go above the 500 bucks mark.

 

Extras: Good Overclocking

Important: Very Good Stability in games, able to handle online full raids & being in cities with ease (dunno if we are able to do that with the current technology, never had a good build to begin with to compare).

 

With Kind Regards

[Droidbot]

definitely ryzen 1700 or 1700x, you sacrifice at max 15% gaming performance for significantly better performance with multitasking and productivity compared to i7 7700k 

 

they don't overclock that well, get a good cooler and a good board (AsRock Taichi is good value) and you'll hit 4Ghz easily with either of them

[Denis_Twin]

4 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

definitely ryzen 1700 or 1700x, you sacrifice at max 15% gaming performance for significantly better performance with multitasking and productivity compared to i7 7700k 

 

they don't overclock that well, get a good cooler and a good board (AsRock Taichi is good value) and you'll hit 4Ghz easily with either of them

If it is able to handle a big raid and populated cities in online games such as tera or WoW or open world events in black desert (I doubt it) or guild wars 2 then sure.

I believe the price is higher and the way it processes information way different than the i7 however it can use hyperthreading to compesate as well. Also I have yet to see AMD4 boards on my locals.

Now Money-wise in both situations to get the same value we need a hydro cooler so yeah...

Both choices are very lucrative in my opinion but I just am interested in extremely high stability in online/offline games.

Which means content creation is a secondary trait but a trait non the less.

[stealth80]

2 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

If it is able to handle a big raid and populated cities in online games such as tera or WoW or open world events in black desert (I doubt it) or guild wars 2 then sure.

I believe the price is higher and the way it processes information way different than the i7 however it can use hyperthreading to compesate as well. Also I have yet to see AMD4 boards on my locals.

Now Money-wise in both situations to get the same value we need a hydro cooler so yeah...

Both choices are very lucrative in my opinion but I just am interested in extremely high stability in online/offline games.

Which means content creation is a secondary trait but a trait non the less.

I'm using a Ryzen 1700, sits at 3.9ghz on 1.3v (amd recommend max 1.45v to give an idea) The key to better gaming performance with Ryzen is high ram speeds, by that I mean 3200mhz + and its needs to be Samsung B die to have the best chance - so CAS 14 3200 or CAS 16 3600mhz. As for all the games you mentioned, either processor will be fine and a 980 prob wont make those games CPU bound anyway. Just remember that with fast ram a Ryzen 7 is only a few FPS behind 7700k but offers so much more in everything else. 

[Droidbot]

3 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

If it is able to handle a big raid and populated cities in online games such as tera or WoW or open world events in black desert (I doubt it) or guild wars 2 then sure.

I believe the price is higher and the way it processes information way different than the i7 however it can use hyperthreading to compesate as well. Also I have yet to see AMD4 boards on my locals.

Now Money-wise in both situations to get the same value we need a hydro cooler so yeah...

Both choices are very lucrative in my opinion but I just am interested in extremely high stability in online/offline games.

Which means content creation is a secondary trait but a trait non the less.

There is usually a 10-20 FPS difference between Intel and Ryzen, and the extra cores are bliss for any games that take advantage of it. 

It's around the same for the 7700K vs 1700. Same way of processing information, it's the same architecture and everything as the Intel counterpart, but with a slightly lower IPC (instructions per clock), which is where the difference stems from. It has 8 cores and 16 threads, absolutely destroys Z270 CPUs for productivity. 

It's a good architecture, stable, but has some teething problems (fast memory is unclear, etc)

[Speaker1264]

Go with the $330 r7 1700 and a $150 b350 motherboard.  It is the ultimate value package.  The stock cooler and b350 motherboards are good enough to hit about 3.9 ghz and you can always upgrade the cooler in the future if desired.  The 1700 only falls slightly behind the i7 in gaming, but absolutely crushes it in everything else.  I also believe that as games start utilizing more than 4 cores you will start to see the 1700 edge out the i7 in games as well.  Here are some relevant videos:

 

 

 

[Denis_Twin]

I understand but IPC is said to be the most important thing in games. Anyway by my understanding... it has more bugs according to many sources and such right now so isnt it more risky? 

[Speaker1264]

11 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

I understand but IPC is said to be the most important thing in games. Anyway by my understanding... it has more bugs according to many sources and such right now so isnt it more risky? 

What bugs? You may have trouble overclocking the memory, but that is going to be getting fixed sometime in the next few weeks.  There is no risk.  And if you want to know game performance there are only a million different places that have done the benchmarks already.  Just look at any of those.

[Denis_Twin]

Also... it is important for me to know since I have yet to find any specified answer to this but do the ryzen cpus overclock beyond 4ghz? Or are they factory locked? How does it work?

[Speaker1264]

8 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

Also... it is important for me to know since I have yet to find any specified answer to this but do the ryzen cpus overclock beyond 4ghz? Or are they factory locked? How does it work?

All ryzen chips are unlocked.  But they do start to hit their voltage/temperature limits at 4 ghz on air cooling.  Even still, the difference between a 4 ghz 1700 and a 5 ghz 7700k isn't that much in games, maybe like 10%-15% fps in the most cpu limited games.  More relevant videos of a 7700k at 5ghz against the 1700 at 4 ghz:

 

 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

I'd be honest. You have way too many requirements for the amount of money that you are asking. 

 

Both the 7700K and 1700 can stream. But they do so at different quality presets without dropping frames. An 8 core 1700 can have a high quality stream(for the viewers).

What you compromise on is the lower average fps. 

 

Your mmo games aren't optimized to take advantage of as many cores as it can. And it still likes faster cores. 7700K is ideal for that. Dungeon raids, node wars, siege, world bosses, sever vs server. 7700K will give you a damn good avg fps if you can bump it to 5Ghz + High speed ram. I'd expect the 1700 to be about 20% behind. 

 

Multitasking obviously goes to the 1700. 8c16t vs 4c8t. Thats no fight. To give you a rough idea, I've had 40 chrome tabs + an MMO(afk in town hotspot, so that's easily 100+ players) + Overwatch quick play(12players)(80-90 fps) + blender + visual studio + and irresponsible amount of background apps + playing 1080p videos. Didn't even feel a stutter in Overwatch.

 

Though. Ideally, the perfect cpu for you would be the 5960x. But the budget doesn't allow for that. Sadly.

 

TLDR: 

7700K: 

+ ludicrous levels of average fps in your games(overclocked)

+ Overclocking 

 

1700:

+ Streaming quality

+ Multitasking

+ Smooth gameplay

 

5960x: 
+ ludicrous levels of average fps in your games(overclocked)
+ Overclocking 
+ Streaming quality
+ Multitasking
+ Smooth gameplay

 

You do the math. If not, give your pennies to intel for their 8 core. 

 

 

[Imakuni]

31 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

I understand but IPC is said to be the most important thing in games.

If you have an amazing GPU to support it (not really your case) and if pure gaming is what you're doing. But if you're doing other stuff at the same time (say, streaming), the extra cores become much more important than raw IPC.

 

33 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

Anyway by my understanding... it has more bugs according to many sources and such right now so isnt it more risky?

Such as? Name a couple of known "bugs", please.

 

32 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

Also... it is important for me to know since I have yet to find any specified answer to this but do the ryzen cpus overclock beyond 4ghz? Or are they factory locked? How does it work?

Not really... Ryzen is pretty bad when it comes to raw clocks, around 4ghz (give or take) is the limit for current chips.

 

Not that it actually matters, though, the performance is still great, regardless of whether it says "4ghz" or "over 9000ghz!". It is just a number afteral, whose sole purpose is to compare same model Ryzen chips with themselves (and with themselves ONLY).

[Denis_Twin]

3 hours ago, Speaker1264 said:

All ryzen chips are unlocked.  But they do start to hit their voltage/temperature limits at 4 ghz on air cooling.  Even still, the difference between a 4 ghz 1700 and a 5 ghz 7700k isn't that much in games, maybe like 10%-15% fps in the most cpu limited games.  More relevant videos of a 7700k at 5ghz against the 1700 at 4 ghz:

 

what about water cooling? how far can they go with a single or double fan hydro cooler?

2 hours ago, Pohernori said:

-

 

Well we arent talking about a budget computer but nor for an expensive one, right now even with my current build I can stream but because of my cheap dell mobo I want to upgrade (yes, it could cause problems in gaming, but this is specified in another thread so I will refer you to check it on that other thread)

Anyway, I just wanted to upgrade the whole thing but the buttom line is I can as well have many many things open at the same time (such as WoW market place afk + overwatch+stream+chrome x tabs + video playing) while keeping the quality of the stream at a very good spot (According to viewers, besides its better that way for several reasons).

Anyhow, in other words I know even a 7700k can stream perfectly fine without any secondary system recording but I was just curious if the difference was THAT huge.

So give or take everyone here is interested more on ryzen rather than 7700k (I would assume 1700x?)

I was very interested myself as well and concerned because of it being a new model.

So lets say I play tera and am on Ultra settings in the main city (CPU intensive game) will I encounter any issues? Same with starcraft 2 with max settings and units limit, will both of them be able to handle them flawlessly? hmm black desert as well since I stream it sometimes.

Also why do you prefer 1700 over 1800? (I guess price and value for money but just need a confirmation).

Lastly which part list would you suggest?

[Denis_Twin]

I found some components from the local store which are available

 

How does this sound as a build?   - - - - - - - - ->

 

MSI Motherboard B350M Gaming Pro (B350/AM4/DDR4)

Corsair CPU Cooler Hydro H55 Quiet 8

Corsair Desktop RAM Vengeance LPX 16GB Kit 3000MHz DDR4

AMD CPU Ryzen 7 1700X (AM4/3.80 GHz/20 MB)

Corsair PSU CS Series 750 W 80+ Gold CS750M Modular

Corsair Carbide Spec­03 Red Midi Tower

 

Already Own:

Samsung 850EVO SSD

GIGABYTE GTX980 4OC

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

8 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

Well we arent talking about a budget computer but nor for an expensive one, right now even with my current build I can stream but because of my cheap dell mobo I want to upgrade (yes, it could cause problems in gaming, but this is specified in another thread so I will refer you to check it on that other thread)

Anyway, I just wanted to upgrade the whole thing but the buttom line is I can as well have many many things open at the same time (such as WoW market place afk + overwatch+stream+chrome x tabs + video playing) while keeping the quality of the stream at a very good spot (According to viewers, besides its better that way for several reasons).

Anyhow, in other words I know even a 7700k can stream perfectly fine without any secondary system recording but I was just curious if the difference was THAT huge.

So give or take everyone here is interested more on ryzen rather than 7700k (I would assume 1700x?)

I was very interested myself as well and concerned because of it being a new model.

So lets say I play tera and am on Ultra settings in the main city (CPU intensive game) will I encounter any issues? Same with starcraft 2 with max settings and units limit, will both of them be able to handle them flawlessly? hmm black desert as well since I stream it sometimes.

Also why do you prefer 1700 over 1800? (I guess price and value for money but just need a confirmation).

Lastly which part list would you suggest?

 

Not sure which thread you're talking about, you'll have to link it. 

 

I've already mentioned. Ryzen will be the better choice for you in multitasking. 

 

1700 and 7700K can output the same quality but 7700K does so at the cost of frame drops.

 

I cannot confirm, Tera and SC2 since I don't have those games on my Ryzen system. 

 

1700 since its the only one that comes with a cooler. And you'll definitely want to overclock Ryzen chips. The included cooler is good up till 1.2+ vcore. If you're lucky you can OC the 1700 to the same levels as the 1800x at the same voltage. If you're unlucky, you'd need more voltage which call for a better cooler at this point with a mobo that has efficient vrm.

[Denis_Twin]

20 minutes ago, Pohernori said:

I cannot confirm, Tera and SC2 since I don't have those games on my Ryzen system. 

 

1700 since its the only one that comes with a cooler. And you'll definitely want to overclock Ryzen chips. The included cooler is good up till 1.2+ vcore. If you're lucky you can OC the 1700 to the same levels as the 1800x at the same voltage. If you're unlucky, you'd need more voltage which call for a better cooler at this point with a mobo that has efficient vrm.

What if you add a double fan water cooler?

Are you able to get one of them and benchmark?

Hmm or.... lets just ask while you have had all those opened up while playing overwatch, did you have any issues at all on your city while playing the mmo game? Was it smooth?

By the way check my previous post if you will.

[Speaker1264]

The 7700k will be slightly ahead for simply gaming, but you will notice a performance loss if you plan on streaming or doing other tasks.  The 1700 will stream effortlessly without any performance loss, and allow you to do other stuff at the same time.  If you want to max out your overclocks on the 1700 you will need something like a Cooler Master MasterLiquid Pro 240, but over 4 GHz nothing is really guaranteed, since like I said, you may start hitting the temp/voltage limit, but even something like the Cryorig H7 will get you to 3.9 GHz pretty easily, and possibly 4 GHz for much cheaper.  Save money on the cooler, since the difference isn't really worth it.  Save money, get the 1700, not the 1700x since they both overclock about the same.  The B350 motherboard should be fine for your uses.  I went with some G.Skill Fortis ram since it has better compatibility with Ryzen. 10 year warranty, fully modular, gold rating power supply.  There are cheaper power supplies out there if you really don't care for modular.  This is what I would go with personally, and I think it hits the right balance between price, performance, and features IMO.

 

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($316.88 @ OutletPC) 
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($34.89 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($108.29 @ OutletPC) 
Memory: G.Skill FORTIS 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($107.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($74.89 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $642.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-29 16:32 EDT-0400

[ewitte]

Some benchmarks will show you CPU and gpu time I run mostly 4k on a 1080ti. If you look at the stats BOTH of these processors can handle 300-400% what the gpu can at those settings.   The only reason it would matter is if your aiming for 144hz at 1080p.

[Conan1600]

For your use there is no doubt in my mind you should go with a Ryzen 1600 and b motherboard with 3000 ram. easily at your budget and will do what you do better than the intel platform at this time

[Denis_Twin]

13 hours ago, Speaker1264 said:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($316.88 @ OutletPC) 
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($34.89 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($108.29 @ OutletPC) 
Memory: G.Skill FORTIS 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($107.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($74.89 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $642.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-29 16:32 EDT-0400

      Interesting although I am not sure about ordering online for warranty reasons (I plan on buying everything from one shop because I can easily access it and give something back) Last time I had to be charged sooooo much for shipping just to send it to gigabyte for inspection and then I was charged even more by them, instead I could just return it to the shop I got it from but of course that would be impossible since the shipping total would be the same price as my component so it would be worth it to just buy a new one which would be a waste, so part picker is not really the ideal choice according to my experience.

ps: you forgot about the case   

      I am not searching for a particularly cheap build rather.... a build that will serve well on ultra for the years to come, of course changing graphics cards now is like changing pants so the graphical intensity will not really be an issue especially starting with the gtx980 which can even use dsr in most games without reaching its limits at all.

By the way I have an Noctua NH-D9L cooler already but I am not sure about sockets and stuff, anyway,

 

     So in conclusion, isnt higher clock speed a must? seeing 7700k as 5ghz is stunning if thats true BUT seeing the experiment results when combining high speed ram is also interesting BUT the problem is right now no motherboard  supports this ram (at least on my market)  most go at best for 2990mhz-3200mhz (xtreme) max. Specifically they said the 3600mhz/16CL + ryzen7 1700 3.95ghz is required to reach the performance of the 7700k.

 

    Another question, why go with the 1700 and not 1700x? Why would they even add another 100$ to the product if it is the same thing? Something must be different for its price to be higher (Seeing the stock speeds is depressing though at 3ghz  and I understand that they can be overclock to higher speeds and that is just the factory default ) but darn.... those speeds compared to the old FX series I seen on the market are pretty low, like 8350 which of course is of an older technology, people say they could overclock them at 5ghz as well.

 

Lastly, are you able to benchmark some games or show results when playing on a ryzen? To confirm that no stutter, micro stutter, fps drops etc.

Games I am interested in (that have many players, effects,  assets etc) are black desert, tera (high pop cities), heroes of the storm, starcraft 2 (on unit limit), guildwars 2 (on node wars , global wars etc).

 

(Overwatch does not count, even I can play it on my cr4ppy PC, it is very well optimized).

 

Thanks by the way for the interest to support me.

Having it to be as cheap yet as powerful as possible of a machine (focused heavily around gaming and some minor-medium streaming+multitasking) will be wonderful.

[Denis_Twin]

13 hours ago, Speaker1264 said:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD RYZEN 7 1700 3.0GHz 8-Core Processor  ($316.88 @ OutletPC) 
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H7 49.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($34.89 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: MSI B350 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard  ($108.29 @ OutletPC) 
Memory: G.Skill FORTIS 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory  ($107.99 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($74.89 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $642.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-04-29 16:32 EDT-0400

By the way those websites do not ship in my region (I contacted them) and the cost for similar components here in the locals is around 1100 euro (yeah...)

[DrMikeNZ]

2 hours ago, TwinDenis said:

Another question, why go with the 1700 and not 1700x?

They are the same silicon. The 1700 has been downclocked to push it into a lower TDP bracket. All of the Ryzen processors hit a wall at very similar clocks, and overclocking the 1700 will yield near identical performance. You should be able to get to 3.8 GHz on the stock cooler while blindfolded. While the 1700 on average may need a little more voltage to reach the same clocks as the 1700X, the difference is less than the margin of error.

 

22 hours ago, TwinDenis said:

starcraft 2

Not sure about the other games, but SC2 is a terribly optimised game, and while it can be very CPU heavy, it will be pegged by single threaded performance.

[XCalinX]

I'd go with Ryzen, I have a 1800x and a 6700k and I prefer the Ryzen. yeah you will lose a bit in gaming, but it won't be that much especially since you have an older GPU.

[Matevzs1]

Hey.

I will kidnap this topic. So I'm deciding between i7 7700k and Ryzen 1700. I will be using it for Photoshop, Premiere Pro, After Effects, little gaming (really little ), etc.

 

I know pretty much all of you will tell me that 1700 is clear winner and all benchmarks say so too, BUT I'm deciding about this for over a month now, so here is my current point of view and I would really appreciate it if you would tell me what is your opinion about my thinking.

 

- We all know that Intel chips are great quality products which will last for 10+ years. As for AMD, in the past they were not so good, and Ryzen is totally new platform. Nobody had this chips for more than 3 months, so how I can be sure it won't lose performance sooner than expected or even something worse?

- All tests with Adobe CC are based on rendering times, but in my case it's much more important how good is overall responsiveness of software, I can export projects at night... So is there any benefit from more cores in normal workflow or can I benefit more from higher clocked cores?

- Are optimizations for multiple cores use really that close? We have 8 core Xeons for years at the market, so why is software not yet optimized for them then? Or it's not that simple, and we could wait for optimizations for few more years where whole story about processors could be totally different?

- i7 has integraded graphics while Ryzen7 doesn't. I will have nVidia GPU of course, but can be integraded GPU from i7 be beneficial in any other way? Is there any good point of having it?

 

Well this are my concernes and that's why I can't decide which processor to choose for over a month now. I really can't afford to choose the wrong one at the moment, but I will have to choose red or blue team in next 3 days so any help would be great, because I really don't want to draw.

 

Thanks in advance and have a great day!

Regards,

Matevz

[jjohnthedon1]

For your price point I'd get a 1600 and a top board as the am4 platform is gona be around for a while 

the 1600 kills my 4790k in streaming and actually gets the same fps in gaming 

 

i think that is the best option for the money you want to spend 

better board now then get the top CPU at there end of line in 2020 

thats what I'm going to do