Home server - old server vs new build

[StereoRocker]

Hi everyone!

 

So I'm thinking about building myself a home server, it'll mainly be used as a storage machine and as a terraria server. Ideally I'd like to run some virtualization software to keep the services apart, and to allow for expansion etc.

 

My main question is, should I build something with some older Xeons or should I go with some higher powered desktop hardware?

 

EDIT:

I currently have an old system running these services, Q6700 @ 3GHz and 8GB RAM

[samcool55]

I would try old hardware first to get familiar with everything. If you are tired of it or want something else after a few weeks/months it's not as big of a deal compared to using new hardware.

[StereoRocker]

I've just updated my post to state I'm already running a server, and it's specs. I'm familiar with running a server, mostly looking at what my upgrade path should be.

[domandric034]

Get SSD as your boot drive, get atleast 32 GB RAM and get a weak gpu to remove any stress of igpu on cpu

[StereoRocker]

Just now, domandric034 said:

Get SSD as your boot drive, get atleast 32 GB RAM and get a weak gpu to remove any stress of igpu on cpu

So are you suggesting the old server gear, or a new build?

[domandric034]

old server gear

[domandric034]

Just now, StereoRocker said:

So are you suggesting the old server gear, or a new build?

I have on my server NVIDIA GF 7300 as gpu and I am running Windows Server 2016 Datacenter and works perfectly

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, domandric034 said:

Get SSD as your boot drive, get atleast 32 GB RAM and get a weak gpu to remove any stress of igpu on cpu

Would an SSD/GPU have any impact on a Terraria server, because neither matter at all for a storage server. Plus a lot of server boards have integrated graphics (not the iGPU) if you want to consider CPUs without iGPUs (but removing stress from the CPU shouldn't be a reason to not use an iGPU).

 

@StereoRocker What is the reason you want to upgrade? 

 

[domandric034]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Would an SSD/GPU have any impact on a Terraria server, because neither matter at all for a storage server.

 

@StereoRocker What is the reason you want to upgrade? 

 

Actually there will be impact cause if he puts Terraria server on SSD it would load faster and GPU to remove any stress from CPU when it is matter of integrated graphics. The reason to remove stress is cause it can make CPU life shorter

Idk if there is iGPU on that CPU beacuse I was Team Red for 20 years and this year I got for the first time Team Blue's CPU

[StereoRocker]

8 minutes ago, domandric034 said:

I have on my server NVIDIA GF 7300 as gpu and I am running Windows Server 2016 Datacenter and works perfectly

I already have a povvo spec GPU ready! What CPU(s) are you running? Curious as I know Hyper-V in WS2016 requires SLAT support.

 

7 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Would an SSD/GPU have any impact on a Terraria server, because neither matter at all for a storage server.

 

@StereoRocker What is the reason you want to upgrade? 

 

 

No, they wouldn't affect a Terraria server. It's all CPU bound, and I think SSD would be unnecessary as it works fine from a traditional drive at the moment.

 

The main reason I want to upgrade is to give myself some headroom to assign more tasks to the server in the future. Currently I run:

Windows Server 2012 as a hypervisor

2x Linux VMs, one runs transmission daemon, mirrors ubuntu repos, and handles my mass network storage, the other is used by my dad and I have no idea what he does with it  - each has 1 core assigned and 2GB RAM

1x Windows Server 2008 R2 VM for Terraria - has 2 cores assigned and 2GB RAM

 

So without over-provisioning, I can't run any more VMs for anything.

 

As for my CPU, it has no iGPU. Or, if it does, it isn't being used as the motherboard has no video outputs.

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, domandric034 said:

Actually there will be impact cause if he puts Terraria server on SSD it would load faster and GPU to remove any stress from CPU when it is matter of integrated graphics. The reason to remove stress is cause it can make CPU life shorter

Idk if there is iGPU on that CPU beacuse I was Team Red for 20 years and this year I got for the first time Team Blue's CPU

The added stress from the iGPU isn't going to have any meaningful impact on CPU life. 

 

As for making Terraria load faster, that's what I was asking -- more specifically if it would make any meaningful difference to players. 

 

3 minutes ago, StereoRocker said:

No, they wouldn't affect a Terraria server. It's all CPU bound, and I think SSD would be unnecessary as it works fine from a traditional drive at the moment.

 

The main reason I want to upgrade is to give myself some headroom to assign more tasks to the server in the future. Currently I run:

Windows Server 2012 as a hypervisor

2x Linux VMs, one runs transmission daemon, mirrors ubuntu repos, and handles my mass network storage, the other is used by my dad and I have no idea what he does with it  - each has 1 core assigned and 2GB RAM

1x Windows Server 2008 R2 VM for Terraria - has 2 cores assigned and 2GB RAM

 

So without over-provisioning, I can't run any more VMs for anything.

 

As for my CPU, it has no iGPU. Or, if it does, it isn't being used as the motherboard has no video outputs.

That's the assumption I was under, thanks. 

 

Well, then the next question would be, what kind of performance do you actually need right now and how much headroom would you like? That would determine what hardware you should buy to replace it. 

 

Your CPU has no iGPU. 

[domandric034]

4 minutes ago, StereoRocker said:

I already have a povvo spec GPU ready! What CPU(s) are you running? Curious as I know Hyper-V in WS2016 requires SLAT support.

 

 

No, they wouldn't affect a Terraria server. It's all CPU bound, and I think SSD would be unnecessary as it works fine 

 

The main reason I want to upgrade is to give myself some headroom to assign more tasks to the server in the future. Currently I run:

Windows Server 2012 as a hypervisor

2x Linux VMs, one runs transmission daemon, mirrors ubuntu repos, and handles my mass network storage, the other is used by my dad and I have no idea what he does with it  - each has 1 core assigned and 2GB RAM

1x Windows Server 2008 R2 VM for Terraria - has 2 cores assigned and 2GB RAM

 

So without over-provisioning, I can't run any more VMs for anything.

 

As for my CPU, it has no iGPU. Or, if it does, it isn't being used as the motherboard has no video outputs.

Ok your choice but 32 GB's RAM would be awesome upgrade for your server so you can allocate more RAM for you VM's.

 

[StereoRocker]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

Well, then the next question would be, what kind of performance do you actually need right now and how much headroom would you like? That would determine what hardware you should buy to replace it. 

My current performance is actually fine. I guess ideally I'd like to have 8 cores available to me.

Also would like an ample amount of SATA ports so I can run a RAID array for my mass storage... my current solution is laughable.

 

2 minutes ago, domandric034 said:

Ok your choice but 32 GB's RAM would be awesome upgrade for your server so you can allocate more RAM for you VM's.

But personally I run Windows Server 2016 with SSD (250 GB Samsung 850 Basic Evo) and RAID 0 with 4x 8 TB (WD Red)

I'd probably look at getting at least 16GB for the new server, leaving some slots free to upgrade later. I doubt I'll be able to afford 32GB when I get around to building!

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, StereoRocker said:

My current performance is actually fine. I guess ideally I'd like to have 8 cores available to me.

Also would like an ample amount of SATA ports so I can run a RAID array for my mass storage... my current solution is laughable.

8 cores or 8 threads? Would a used 4c/8t Xeon be sufficient or would you want 8c/16t -- so something like a used 2670/2670v2 (motherboards are usually tricky to find) or something like a Ryzen 1700. Would you want ECC? 

 

As for sata ports, if you're using Storage Spaces (assuming you're running Windows Server), then you'll want more sata ports or a simple HBA card (to get more sata ports). If you're not using Storage Spaces, then you'll want a RAID card anyway. 

 

Also how much would you want to spend on the upgrade and do you need anything other than CPU/Mobo/Ram?

[StereoRocker]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

8 cores or 8 threads? Would a used 4c/8t Xeon be sufficient or would you want 8 real cores -- so something like a used 2670/2670v2 (motherboards are usually tricky to find) or something like a Ryzen 1700. 

8 real cores is what I'd want, really. If I can squeeze it into budget, 16 threads would be great. A R7 1700 would be way above budget, I've just broken my bank buying an 1800X >.<

 

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

As for sata ports, if you're using Storage Spaces (assuming you're running Windows Server), then you'll want more sata ports or a simple HBA card (to get more sata ports). If you're not using Storage Spaces, then you'll want a RAID card anyway. 

 

Also how much would you want to spend? 

Windows Server is on the table, I have licenses for all recent versions. I'm also considering a more bare metal hypervisor like ESXi or Xen.

I'm thinking of spending about £300 (~$400 US)

[StereoRocker]

To clarify, if the performance increase is notable, I'd be willing to go over the budget.

[Lord Nicoll]

43 minutes ago, StereoRocker said:

Hi everyone!

 

So I'm thinking about building myself a home server, it'll mainly be used as a storage machine and as a terraria server. Ideally I'd like to run some virtualization software to keep the services apart, and to allow for expansion etc.

 

My main question is, should I build something with some older Xeons or should I go with some higher powered desktop hardware?

 

EDIT:

I currently have an old system running these services, Q6700 @ 3GHz and 8GB RAM

I buy old Generation 6 and 7 ProLiant rack servers, the dual socket LGA 1366 ones, they're pretty good and all the extra features like remote BIOS and iLO are a god send for some things, I'd say go with 2nd hand server hardware, it was built for those uses. 

[79wjd]

Just now, StereoRocker said:

8 real cores is what I'd want, really. If I can squeeze it into budget, 16 threads would be great. A R7 1700 would be way above budget, I've just broken my bank buying an 1800X >.<

 

Windows Server is on the table, I have licenses for all recent versions. I'm also considering a more bare metal hypervisor like ESXi or Xen.

I'm thinking of spending about £300 (~$400 US)

FWIW, I would exchange that 1800x for a 1700 if you could just because they're basically the same, but that's probably not an option.

 

Does tha $400 cover anything other than the CPU/RAM/Mobo? I'm not sure about those other OS's, but some filesystems (ReFs, ZFS, btrfs) want direct access to the drives (and thus you don't want a RAID card) while other filesystems (NTFS, UFS, etc...) need a RAID card.  

 

Just now, Lord Nicoll said:

I buy old Generation 6 and 7 ProLiant rack servers, the dual socket LGA 1366 ones, they're pretty good and all the extra features like remote BIOS and iLO are a god send for some things,

My only complaint about those is power consumption is noticeably higher even at idle loads.

[Lord Nicoll]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

FWIW, I would exchange that 1800x for a 1700 if you could just because they're basically the same, but that's probably not an option.

 

Does tha $400 cover anything other than the CPU/RAM/Mobo? I'm not sure about those other OS's, but some filesystems (ReFs, ZFS, btrfs) want direct access to the drives (and thus you don't want a RAID card) while other filesystems (NTFS, UFS, etc...) need a RAID card.  

 

My only complaint about those is power consumption is noticeably higher even at idle loads.

That's the main reason they are  all but phased out of data centres, in another 8 years we'll say the same about Skylake and possibly even Ryzen, although Ryzen is a major step forward for power usage at the same time that might end up like GPU boost and a pain for some people. 

[StereoRocker]

Just now, Lord Nicoll said:

I buy old Generation 6 and 7 ProLiant rack servers, the dual socket LGA 1366 ones, they're pretty good and all the extra features like remote BIOS and iLO are a god send for some things, I'd say go with 2nd hand server hardware, it was built for those uses. 

Could you hook me up with some links to recommendations please?

 

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

FWIW, I would exchange that 1800x for a 1700 if you could just because they're basically the same, but that's probably not an option.

 

Does tha $400 cover anything other than the CPU/RAM/Mobo? I'm not sure about those other OS's, but some filesystems (ReFs, ZFS, btrfs) want direct access to the drives (and thus you don't want a RAID card) while other filesystems (NTFS, UFS, etc...) need a RAID card.

Sadly exchanging it is not an option. I would've gone with a 1700 if they were in stock when I ordered.

The $400 covers only the CPU/RAM/Mobo, and possibly a RAID/HBA card. Chassis etc. doesn't have to be covered, I'll find a way if necessary haha.

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

That's the main reason they are  all but phased out of data centres, in another 8 years we'll say the same about Skylake and possibly even Ryzen, although Ryzen is a major step forward for power usage at the same time that might end up like GPU boost and a pain for some people. 

No doubt, but the cost savings of more modern hardware is probably worthwhile. 

2 minutes ago, StereoRocker said:

Could you hook me up with some links to recommendations please?

 

Sadly exchanging it is not an option. I would've gone with a 1700 if they were in stock when I ordered.

The $400 covers only the CPU/RAM/Mobo, and possibly a RAID/HBA card. Chassis etc. doesn't have to be covered, I'll find a way if necessary haha.

First I would decide what OS you're going to use and if you need a RAID or an HBA card. You'll definitely want to look into buying used, so it will depend a lot on what deals you can find. A 2650/2670 can be had for like $50, which would be a great CPU, but the problem is that motherboards are usually going to be expensive. Other than that, getting 8 cores on the cheap is going to be difficult unless you go with older server hardware and potentially a dual CPU config (which drives up electric costs quite a lot). 

[StereoRocker]

Electric costs aren't really an issue for me at the moment. I think I'll be looking into the old server hardware route, then. Thanks a lot for your help everyone!

[Lord Nicoll]

Just now, StereoRocker said:

Could you hook me up with some links to recommendations please?

I'd recommend buying off ebay, however as I've bought a few off there, I have worked out my preference for 2nd hand cheap servers, a UK ebay seller called bargainhardware. While I've had only good dealings with them, 1 person is a small sample size. The screen shot there is of a nice solid model with slightly less power hungry CPUs compared to the older ones, but the X5650's are still quite high end for the LGA 1366, I'd recommend something like an L5630, these CPUs are SUPER cheap, almost as much as the E5506 also available but they have hyper threading and less power usage. That server however takes 2.5" drivers, preferable SAS 10K for RAID use, but you can fit up to 8 in, 4 are included in the price there. 

 

 

Taking my advise would remove 132 GBP off the price and all you have to do is hunt down a matched pair L5640's CPU

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

No doubt, but the cost savings of more modern hardware is probably worthwhile. 

Not really, I got 12 cores/24 threads and 128GB of RAM for less than €800 in a 2U chassis, to get similar services (like iLO and validation) would require either buying similar server spec stuff( an LGA 2011 server 2nd hand would have been over €1200 for similar) or close to server spec consumer hardware, which still isn't that cheap. Plus these old rack chassis are built like brick shit houses, my HP ProLiant DL 380G7 is over 30KG, I called Erebus because of this, as it nearly killed me lugging it though my house and down some stairs and into it's rack. 

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, Lord Nicoll said:

Not really, I got 12 cores/24 threads and 128GB of RAM for less than €800 in a 2U chassis, to get similar services (like iLO and validation) would require either buying similar server spec stuff( an LGA 2011 server 2nd hand would have been over €1200 for similar) or close to server spec consumer hardware, which still isn't that cheap. Plus these old rack chassis are built like brick shit houses, my HP ProLiant DL 380G7 is over 30KG, I called Erebus because of this, as it nearly killed me lugging it though my house and down some stairs and into it's rack. 

It depends a lot on the performance level as I implied in my last post (saying that older hardware is probably OPs best bet). If you need high core counts you don't really have much of an option other than buying old, but if you only need 8 cores, then I'd rather take an R7 1700-based system over an old dual cpu system -- you'd pay a bit more but the energy savings would balance out. If you need more than that, well, then you don't have much of an option other than old used hardware. 

[Lord Nicoll]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It depends a lot on the performance level as I implied in my last post (saying that older hardware is probably OPs best bet). If you need high core counts you don't really have much of an option other than buying old, but if you only need 8 cores, then I'd rather take an R7 1700-based system over an old dual cpu system -- you'd pay a bit more but the energy savings would balance out. If you need more than that, well, then you don't have much of an option other than old used hardware. 

I'm not too up on what Terraria needs, I suspect a Raspberry Pi could run it, but if OP is anything like me the second you get your first server it's all guns on deck and you suddenly have several games running servers and a hell of a lot of VMs running.