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Dutch court rules that Apple cannot supply ‘refurbished or remanufactured’ iPads as warranty replacements

CaptainGazzz

What should a manufacturer do if a device is not repairable? (and warranty is still applicable)  

247 members have voted

  1. 1. What should a manufacturer do if a device is not repairable? (and warranty is still applicable)

    • They have to give a brand new product.
      154
    • They can give a refurbished model.
      23
    • They have to give a new product but when a certain time has passed after the purchase they can give a refurbished product.
      70


You really think they'll give you a new phone? That's a naive consumer.

Next time I take my phone in, I'll be expecting to get a 'loaner' phone that is just a refurbish for a month or two as they repair devices rather than replace on the spot. In the end consumers will gain nothing. 

 

Thanks Dutch courts, for clearing things up and for the extra hassle.

 

 

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1 minute ago, dtaflorida said:

You really think they'll give you a new phone? That's a naive consumer.

Next time I take my phone in, I'll be expecting to get a 'loaner' phone that is just a refurbish for a month or two as they repair devices rather than replace on the spot. In the end consumers will gain nothing. 

 

Thanks Dutch courts, for clearing things up and for the extra hassle.

Correct. It's compounded heavily in how it affects all consumers.  It's not just the monetary cost involved.  

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5 minutes ago, Doramius said:

Correct. It's compounded heavily in how it affects all consumers.  It's not just the monetary cost involved.

I wonder if they can get away with offering consumers a waiver of their right to new/repair for an immediate refurbish replacement. Then consumers get the best of both options. 

 

That would make for an interesting poll too, see how many would rather have the immediate replacement over a repair job.

 

 

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I'm currently going through an issue similar to this with HTC.  In fact, I've received 2x NEW replacements since I purchased the original new phone Jan. this year.  I don't want to send my phone in for repair, as it will take a minimum of 2 weeks and most people says if they don't regularly call in about the status, that it falls more in the timeframe of 4-6 weeks.  That's sheer BU!!$#!T, and completely unacceptable.  The new products obviously all share the same defect.  The refurbished product would offer the same item, but with what would hopefully be a fixed defect in the product.  Currently, I'm asking for a different product altogether, because while the HTC Bolt is actually a really nice phone.....the screen either goes black, flickers, or loses half the screen view to where it is a useless device.  The original, and the 2x NEW replacements all exhibited this behavior.  If Sprint offers this phone.....kindly pass and tell them to F*** Off!!

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11 hours ago, Carclis said:

-snip-

Either you have a problem with the QC or not. If so don't buy from them. Warranty or no. Ask for a different model or a refund. Most warranties also have a lemon policy. Similarly to cars. This is a question of terms of contract. Not state intervention.

 

Who said vehicle warranties look absurd to me? I said I feel sorry for the day when vehicle manufacturers are placed in this same vice. Vehicle warranties reflect the desires of the buyers and the support of the maker. People want their vehicle to last as an investment. Manufacturers want people to use their cars and then come back to them for the next one. Phone manufacturers want you to come back in a year for the next model. They don't WANT their phones in the wild for a decade. And most buyers don't either. The vast majority of Apple's sales are year over year return buyers. Offering a 5 year warranty on an iPad or iPhone would be ridiculous for them. Vehicles get repaired because of the margins involved and the costs of repair vs replacement, not to mention the networks in place and investment in that infrastructure that allows it. Vehicles also get insured. As the primary cause of catastrophic failure for vehicles isn't going to be warranty related, it's going to be an accident or lack of required upkeep. Device insurance or market pressure on makers would be better overall solutions than government intervention in the electronics industry. Start expecting better support from manufacturers and stop buying the shiniest pretty thing rather than the one with the best support and makers will cater to that.

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7 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Unless I'm mistaken the replacement iPhone doesn't have a new warranty -- it continues the warranty you have or extends it 30 days, whichever is longer.

That depends. I believe the argument for the Dutch case was that those replacement products have a new warranty. If not my bad. Not every outlet provides the same level of accuracy

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3 minutes ago, HalGameGuru said:

That depends. I believe the argument for the Dutch case was that those replacement products have a new warranty. If not my bad. Not every outlet provides the same level of accuracy

It's 90 days or the remainder of the warranty, whichever is longer.

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We guarantee our service, including replacement parts, for 90 days or the remaining term of your Apple warranty or AppleCare+ coverage, whichever is longer.

 

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2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's 90 days or the remainder of the warranty, whichever is longer.

 

"They are returned to as-new standard, and given the same warranty as brand new devices."

 

per the article, once again the terms of the devices in question will be dictated by the terms Apple provides in the EU

 

I believe remanufactured are similar, but this may be for when they are bought solo, not when given out as replacements. But, I still want to see the terms provided in Apple docs, not just online second hand.

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3 minutes ago, HalGameGuru said:

"They are returned to as-new standard, and given the same warranty as brand new devices."

 

per the article, once again the terms of the devices in question will be dictated by the terms Apple provides in the EU

 

I believe remanufactured are similar, but this may be for when they are bought solo, not when given out as replacements. But, I still want to see the terms provided in Apple docs, not just online second hand.

If you buy a refurbished device, then you get the normal warranty that you would get as if it was new. If you have your phone replaced by a remanufactured device, then you get 90 days or the remainder of your warranty, whichever is longer. 

 

https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/products/denmark-universal-warranty.html

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Just now, djdwosk97 said:

If you buy a refurbished device, then you get the normal warranty that you would get as if it was new. If you have your phone replaced by a remanufactured device, then you get 90 days or the remainder of your warranty, whichever is longer. 

I gotcha, if so that's still not a huge deal to me, and I missed where they specified she got remanufactured not refurbed for her warranty replacement.

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1 minute ago, HalGameGuru said:

I gotcha, if so that's still not a huge deal to me, and I missed where they specified she got remanufactured not refurbed for her warranty replacement.

Apple doesn't give refurbished products as replacement, just remanufactured:

 

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In Holland they don't as that was already, apparently, classified as verboten by those same courts. Elsewhere, refurbs are still an avenue.

 

Quote

Apple doesn't give refurbished products as replacement, just remanufactured:

 

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2 minutes ago, HalGameGuru said:

In Holland they don't as that was already, apparently, classified as verboten by those same courts. Elsewhere, refurbs are still an avenue.

 

 

Anywhere they give remanufactured not refurbished. Dutch courts just decided they're the same, but according to Apple they're different -- refurbished a phone that is fixed while remanufactured is built new but uses refurbished components.

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2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Anywhere they give remanufactured not refurbished. Dutch courts just decided they're the same, but according to Apple they're different -- refurbished a phone that is fixed while remanufactured is built new but uses refurbished components.

Yes, I understand the difference between the products. Apple was told to stop using refurbed as warranty replacements by the Dutch courts prior to this. Which means they WERE giving out refurb there under warranty. Elsewhere they likely still are. I haven't ever bought an Apple product, so I have never made use of the warranty so I cannot say if that is the case HERE, but Apple was, and likely still is, using refurb as warranty replacements elsewhere. The Dutch nixed that, and NOW have also nixed reman. Now does this effect the EU as a whole or only Holland?

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3 hours ago, Jack_of_all_Trades said:

 

Oh wow, "deluded", followed by a complete mess of a response! Where was it ever said I expect perfection from mass production ? I pretty much write that its expected and the company should own up to it. Just because they can get away with giving second hand products and have done so for this long, doesn't mean they have to keep getting away with it. And why should I get a get a second hand one if they can't repair my current device ? Oh, its cause we've always done it this way, funny, very funny.

 

Quote

 

Where was it ever said I expect perfection from mass production  - 


 

 

 

Quote

Why is a minimum life span of 2 years for these premium products such a challenge suddenly ?

 

there.  

 

Quote

Just because they can get away with giving second hand products

hold on you gave them a second hand product why should you get a new one in return. TBH you sound like an entitled bratt.  "give me my new phone now" whats even funnier is the fact you think its ok to have your phone repaired and get a second hand phone back but if it has to be replaced then it should be brand new! your delusional.

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3 hours ago, Doramius said:

Unfortunately, numbers of higher pay are greatly exaggerated.  You have to look at the cost of living and average that out with how much takehome vs. payout.

 

You can't say you get paid more when your cost of products is also more.

 

$10 earnings with $1 milk is the exact same as $20 earnings with $2 milk.  

 

$1000 earnings with $400 apartment is the same as $2000 earnings with $800 apartment.

 

If they are the same job and the same paid for product, the increase means nothing.  The term is called 'inflation'.  It's the same as people saying they don't get paid enough.  You're earning $10 an hour at a milk production plant, and want $20.  Once the increase is in place, the company MUST make adjustment and increase price of product from $1 to $2.  the percentage of what your income vs payout for the product has not changed.  Which means increasing your wages was nothing more than placebo.  

 

When tying this to the refurbished products, ANY laws that change how a company can release their products to which it causes an increase in their production cost, that company will increase the cost of their product to compensate.  If they cannot reduce their costs by finding a way to reuse most of their waste product through remanufacture or refurbishing, the increase will be disbursed through the overall cost of their products.  Which means, 1 person who won't accept refurbished product forces the increase cost of a new product to ALL consumers of that product.

Depends how you look at it. Generally, we have more capital output. Wealth distribution is at hand, our lowest income earners have higher capital output, but our "very well payed" (those who fairs well, but not necessary millionaires) earners doesn't have the same capital outcome as comparable to the same standards in the US.

Well, we obviously also get many different benefits (varies depending on country of course). Paid vacation, paid education, decent welfare, public health care.

We don't have to pay out of pocket for those services.

 

You would almost imagine such cost was calculated in to begin with for such a high markup product as the iphone/ipad.

Apple are well within their rights to sell refurbished/remanufactured devices. They normally sell refurbished for a ~10-15% price cut.

 

Please avoid feeding the argumentative narcissistic academic monkey.

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4 hours ago, Jack_of_all_Trades said:

 

And TBH you sound like someone with his head up his ass. The LG bootloop problem ring a bell to you ? Lets look at the G4 as kind of the most massive, you know how many people have gone through 2-3 or more of those devices dying on them before the stable versions or if they even got such a device before their warranty was over. Oh no no, its fine he got it replaced with a refurbished 505 version that is 99% sure to bootloop again, everything is perfect ? But please do continue with your asinine opinions, the big companies love little bitches like you that are always ready to bend over.

 

tenor.gif

 

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2 hours ago, Jack_of_all_Trades said:

 

Ah the good old  "I have nothing to say, but since I'm a kid I have to reply with something". Just makes you look "triggered", seems to be a self-inserting thing. Guess this "discussion" is over.

no it was the lets laugh at the guy getting triggered on some pointless argument that isnt really all that important in the grand scheme of things reply because, and lets face it, who really cares all that much.......i mean it dosnt even effect me.

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On 8/5/2017 at 9:05 PM, djdwosk97 said:

It's 90 days or the remainder of the warranty, whichever is longer.

 

Those are the warranty terms that do not comply with EU law.

 

You get a full and extended mandatory EU warranty on a replacement for a defective item. I believe the mandatory warranty term on the replacement is extended to 3 years.

On 8/5/2017 at 9:10 PM, djdwosk97 said:

If you buy a refurbished device, then you get the normal warranty that you would get as if it was new. If you have your phone replaced by a remanufactured device, then you get 90 days or the remainder of your warranty, whichever is longer. 

 

https://www.apple.com/legal/warranty/products/denmark-universal-warranty.html

Apple already lost that case in the Danish courts. Those warranty terms are irrelevant as the mandatory EU warranty takes precedence and cannot be waived.

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Those are the warranty terms that do not comply with EU law.

 

You get a full and extended mandatory EU warranty on a replacement for a defective item. I believe the mandatory warranty term on the replacement is extended to 3 years.

Apple already lost that case in the Danish courts. Those warranty terms are irrelevant as the mandatory EU warranty takes precedence and cannot be waived.

Its the same in Australia. Mandatory warranty>fuck-the-customer warranty

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