Cable Modem having sync issues due to being plugged into a Surge Protector - idiotic or real concern?

[dalekphalm]

So I've been having tons of issues w/ my Gigabit Cable service over the last few weeks (Gigabit download, 50 Meg Upload), and one of the things the Rogers Support Technician mentioned (kind of off hand) was that plugging a Cable Modem into a Surge Protector can cause sync/connection issues.

 

This - to me - sounds absolutely idiotic - maybe if you have a shit surge protector that is defective? But a properly working one?

 

Anyway, the Tech had me unplug the modem from the surge protector and plug it directly into the wall outlet - which, of course, did not solve the issue I was having.

 

So, I was curious: Is that a real concern that can cause issues, or was he talking out his ass?

[2FA]

I don't really think it's an actual issue other than the fact that most modems have surge protection built into them. It shouldn't affect the frequency of the AC signal so I'm really sure what the possible thought behind it is.

[Billy_Mays]

18 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

So I've been having tons of issues w/ my Gigabit Cable service over the last few weeks (Gigabit download, 50 Meg Upload), and one of the things the Rogers Support Technician mentioned (kind of off hand) was that plugging a Cable Modem into a Surge Protector can cause sync/connection issues.

 

This - to me - sounds absolutely idiotic - maybe if you have a shit surge protector that is defective? But a properly working one?

 

Anyway, the Tech had me unplug the modem from the surge protector and plug it directly into the wall outlet - which, of course, did not solve the issue I was having.

 

So, I was curious: Is that a real concern that can cause issues, or was he talking out his ass?

He was pulling it out of his ass because it doesn't make any sense at all. Does your area that you live in support that speeds?

[brwainer]

Surge protectors can go bad, even on the coax protection circuitry. I've had this happen to a surge protector for a cable box, not a modem, but the effect was the same. The cable meter showed a reading of 10dBmV going into the protector, and -20dBmV coming out of it. Signal strength can vary from system to system, but for the systems that I'm involved in, we target between 0 and 10 dBmV at the walljack. With digital signals you start getting significant SNR related issues under -10dBmV in my experience, but this also depends on the level of QAM and the decoding hardware.

 

long story short, absolutely in my experience can a surge protector cause issues with your signals - but you can only blame the surge protector if there is a measurable difference in either signal strength, or signal quality (which for QAM based signals on a coax, is measured with Modulaion Error Rate, pre-correction Bit Error Rate, and post-correction Bit Error Rate (MER, pre-BER, and post-BER). The tech is doing a lazy job if a) they can't prove via readings from a meter that your surge protector is an issue, and b) your issue isn't even resolved.

 

EDIT: Just remembered something else - some systems now are using builtin powerline (HomePlug or g.Hn) to communicate between the modem and the cable boxes, DVRs, etc - that is the only way in which a surge protector might be a detriment to a cable modem if the tech was talking about yhe power connector and not the coax connector. And if you have a bog standard modem e.g. Motorola surfboard, then that isn't a concern either.

[dalekphalm]

2 minutes ago, Billy_Mays said:

He was pulling it out of his ass because it doesn't make any sense at all. Does your area that you live in support that speeds?

Oh yes, I get that speed (Well, not actually the full Gig, but close enough) when the Modem is working properly.

 

Last speedtest I performed, I was getting in the range of 800 Mbps down and 30 Mbps up, with a ping of 10. And it really is that fast when the modem is working.

 

Anyway, I'm not here to try and get you guys to actually fix my problem, since I'm back on Chat w/ support right now trying to get them to perform some line tests and maybe send another technician out.

[The Benjamins]

I run all my networking equipment and my server on a rackmount UPS, I never had issues like this.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, brwainer said:

Surge protectors can go bad, even on the coax protection circuitry. I've had this happen to a surge protector for a cable box, not a modem, but the effect was the same. The cable meter showed a reading of 10dBmV going into the protector, and -20dBmV coming out of it. Signal strength can vary from system to system, but for the systems that I'm involved in, we target between 0 and 10 dBmV at the walljack. With digital signals you start getting significant SNR related issues under -10dBmV in my experience, but this also depends on the level of QAM and the decoding hardware.

 

long story short, absolutely in my experience can a surge protector cause issues with your signals - but you can only blame the surge protector if there is a measurable difference in either signal strength, or signal quality (which for QAM based signals on a coax, is measured with Modulaion Error Rate, pre-correction Bit Error Rate, and post-correction Bit Error Rate (MER, pre-BER, and post-BER). The tech is doing a lazy job if a) they can't prove via readings from a meter that your surge protector is an issue, and b) your issue isn't even resolved.

Just as an FYI, the surge protector in question is AC Outlet only. I'm not using a Coax protector.

[brwainer]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Just as an FYI, the surge protector in question is AC Outlet only. I'm not using a Coax protector.

OK I just edidted my post because I thought of one possibility. But beyond that, I can tell you as a cable tech, and Tier II internal support for other cable techs, that he is making that up. In fact using a surge protector for the AC is highly recommended, since modems and cable boxes clearly damaged by a surge aren't replaced for free by us.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, brwainer said:

OK I just edidted my post because I thought of one possibility. But beyond that, I can tell you as a cable tech, and Tier II internal support for other cable techs, that he is making that up. In fact using a surge protector for the AC is highly recommended, since modems and cable boxes clearly damaged by a surge aren't replaced for free by us.

Heh - well I'll tell you what, if my Modem is destroyed from a power surge, Rogers will damn well fucking replace it for free, since they told me to take it off the protector

[brwainer]

3 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Heh - well I'll tell you what, if my Modem is destroyed from a power surge, Rogers will damn well fucking replace it for free, since they told me to take it off the protector

Fair enough, but personally once your issue does actually get resolved, I would just put it back onto the protector

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, brwainer said:

Fair enough, but personally once your issue does actually get resolved, I would just put it back onto the protector

Oh I do plan on it. The modem ran perfectly fine for a month or two on that protector without issue, and I have my Server running on it too without issue.

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

So I've been having tons of issues w/ my Gigabit Cable service over the last few weeks (Gigabit download, 50 Meg Upload), and one of the things the Rogers Support Technician mentioned (kind of off hand) was that plugging a Cable Modem into a Surge Protector can cause sync/connection issues.

 

This - to me - sounds absolutely idiotic - maybe if you have a shit surge protector that is defective? But a properly working one?

 

Anyway, the Tech had me unplug the modem from the surge protector and plug it directly into the wall outlet - which, of course, did not solve the issue I was having.

 

So, I was curious: Is that a real concern that can cause issues, or was he talking out his ass?

Honestly If the Coax was plugged in to a surge protector maybe, but not power. I would check your modems status page if you have access to it. It could just be interference on one of the many channels. My guess is maybe some interference in the area. In the US where I live Comcast uses 600-700 Mhz for the downstream side of the internet service. AT&T LTE also runs on 700Mhz. If you get a loose connection some where in the Comcast network, then AT&T LTE service can leak in an cause issues. This happen before, as a result we had slower service, because I could not connect to all the channels I needed to get proper service. 

[Rauer-Tech]

7 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

So I've been having tons of issues w/ my Gigabit Cable service over the last few weeks (Gigabit download, 50 Meg Upload), and one of the things the Rogers Support Technician mentioned (kind of off hand) was that plugging a Cable Modem into a Surge Protector can cause sync/connection issues.

 

This - to me - sounds absolutely idiotic - maybe if you have a shit surge protector that is defective? But a properly working one?

 

Anyway, the Tech had me unplug the modem from the surge protector and plug it directly into the wall outlet - which, of course, did not solve the issue I was having.

 

So, I was curious: Is that a real concern that can cause issues, or was he talking out his ass?

If your surge protector is not capable to handle the latest Ghz requirements needed through the coax cable for your ISP (Internet Service Provider) than this will cause your issue. That being said, if your ISP did your installation correctly, they would have properly grounded your cable lines outside of your home with a copper wire and a ground pole 8ft into the ground. Another option is to ground your cable connection insider at the ground block they install. You can ground it yourself with ground wire and a copper pipe attachment you can purchase at your local home improvement store. This is the safest and best way to protect your equipment connected via coax. I would use your surge protectors for the electrical plug portion of the device protection but remove the Coax Cable. I used to work for Comcast FYI.

 

 

[bcguru9384]

make sure your cable provider if using an all in one modem registers the units "router side MAC" as the mac to be registered on their system.  you have a NAT errors which in turn destroy latency.  i still prefer to keep my modem separate from router and voip devices. this way modem demodulate signal and pass to router to be sorted. the router then send voip to voip ethport, wifi to its internally bridged ethport (2 of 4 ports used) leaves 2 ports open to run to additional routers or voip units or to computers.  ethernet=lan/wan means lan/wlan use ethernet rules.

[dalekphalm]

37 minutes ago, Rauer-Tech said:

If your surge protector is not capable to handle the latest Ghz requirements needed through the coax cable for your ISP (Internet Service Provider) than this will cause your issue. That being said, if your ISP did your installation correctly, they would have properly grounded your cable lines outside of your home with a copper wire and a ground pole 8ft into the ground. Another option is to ground your cable connection insider at the ground block they install. You can ground it yourself with ground wire and a copper pipe attachment you can purchase at your local home improvement store. This is the safest and best way to protect your equipment connected via coax. I would use your surge protectors for the electrical plug portion of the device protection but remove the Coax Cable. I used to work for Comcast FYI.

 

 

The Surge Protector in question is for AC-Power only, not the coax cable itself, as noted above in a reply to another user.

 

I won't be touching the coax or grounding it - if their system isn't setup properly? Well they'll just waste money by sending techs over to my house over and over again until someone figures it out.

 

11 minutes ago, bcguru9384 said:

make sure your cable provider if using an all in one modem registers the units "router side MAC" as the mac to be registered on their system.  you have a NAT errors which in turn destroy latency.  i still prefer to keep my modem separate from router and voip devices. this way modem demodulate signal and pass to router to be sorted. the router then send voip to voip ethport, wifi to its internally bridged ethport (2 of 4 ports used) leaves 2 ports open to run to additional routers or voip units or to computers.  ethernet=lan/wan means lan/wlan use ethernet rules.

I'm sure they've registered all necessary info, including the MAC Address - they did provide the modem after all.

 

I do also prefer to use a modem with a separate router, but in my current setup, it's not really practical until I can get a second router or a dedicated AP. My only current good router is an old Linksys E4200 (v1 I believe), which I'm using as an AP on my second floor (Modem is in the basement) to boost WIFI coverage. Plus that Linksys is only an N router, whereas the Modem provided by Rogers provides AC, which my Roku 4K and my iPhone 6s can both take advantage of.

[Donut417]

30 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

The Surge Protector in question is for AC-Power only, not the coax cable itself, as noted above in a reply to another user.

 

I won't be touching the coax or grounding it - if their system isn't setup properly? Well they'll just waste money by sending techs over to my house over and over again until someone figures it out.

 

I'm sure they've registered all necessary info, including the MAC Address - they did provide the modem after all.

 

I do also prefer to use a modem with a separate router, but in my current setup, it's not really practical until I can get a second router or a dedicated AP. My only current good router is an old Linksys E4200 (v1 I believe), which I'm using as an AP on my second floor (Modem is in the basement) to boost WIFI coverage. Plus that Linksys is only an N router, whereas the Modem provided by Rogers provides AC, which my Roku 4K and my iPhone 6s can both take advantage of.

Go to 192.168.100.1 

 

See if your modem is running with in spec: https://www.dslreports.com/faq/3412 

 

DSL reports has a good post on what spec is. Also if you notice one channel getting lots of uncorrectable errors that could be from interference on the cable system. Id also talk with your neighbors who have Rodgers service and see if they have any issues. Also check the log page, this could also give insight to what is happening. 

[bcguru9384]

then ask cable company if their docsis takes into account the 7db(3.5db for each f connector and you added 2 connectors with the surge protector) signal attenuation that will be present or does modem treat this attenuation as a "weather short" meaning rain permeatted connecter.

[bcguru9384]

also note what frequency range the surge protector will pass thru as surge protector may need to be seen the way dish network has sat1 and sat2 seen on their splitters at the box.  another note is cable modems since they are two way signal need powerpass splitters. tv may still run traditional splitters fine until you need signal over 550mhz to 750mhz zone then they are crap.

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, bcguru9384 said:

then ask cable company if their docsis takes into account the 7db(3.5db for each f connector and you added 2 connectors with the surge protector) signal attenuation that will be present or does modem treat this attenuation as a "weather short" meaning rain permeatted connecter.

If you read the OP's last post, hes not using the surge protector on the coax cable. I really think its the ISP's problem but they just dont want to fuck with it. 

[bcguru9384]

i have noticed with my cable modem issues when modem dhcp fails get and assign ipv6 dns.

so is your modem getting dns, gateway, subnet, mac for ipv6 correctly or is it reverting to ip4ip6 translator?

this can easily add 400% to latency times

[bcguru9384]

note my isp still not doing a mac for ip6 instead they are "sharing" with ip4.

yes ip protocol but adapter will use mac to establish qos share times for protocols.

basicly they need to create in modem 2 virtual nic cards

1 ipv4

1 ipv6

then do bridge or switch from modem to the virtual adapters for delivery to lan/wlan client