Li-on batteries charging percentage

[bakidota]

I googled how should i charge li-on batteries (phones for example) and some articles suggest to not let the battery drop down below 40%, this will result in a better life span of the battery. How are you guys charging your phones and what do you suggest, since many new phones have non removable battery it is good to preserve the life on it.

[WereCat]

I usually charge from 20% to 90% and I never leave my phone charging longer than 2h.

Also I have large battery so I have no problem getting trough 2 heavy or 3 normal usage days with the 70% I use.

4000mAh Li-pon ... not sure what is the difference vs Li-on.

Huawei Mate 8.

[Enderman]

As long as the voltage doesn't drop below 2.8-2.5v then there is no damage done, and this is handled by the battery controller so you can't see the voltages.

Obviously with the way battery cycles work, if you only discharge it to 50%, you will be able to charge it twice as many times.

Overall the lifespan is the same.

 

The only thing that is sometimes recommended is not charging to 100%.

[Doramius]

Li-Ion and Li-Polymer batteries stay "happy" when charged.  However, trickle charging when it is at charge capacity can also be bad.  Many devices have a setting to not charge once at capacity, until the device has discharged to about 92%.  However, not all devices have this built-in capability.  They also have a problem when discharged too much.  Many have small transistors and chipsets to prevent too far of a discharge that could damage the battery's ability to recharge.  This chipset also holds information like the number of recharges done and the health of the battery, etc.  Sometimes the chipset is set to make the minimum percentage slightly higher than the battery's actual minimum.  This is to prevent the killer Zero-Charge.  If the chip does not identify any power from the battery, for safety, it is to identify the battery as faulted or dead to prevent injury or fire.  The battery may not be bad at all.  The precaution is made, regardless.  To prevent [or minimize] bad PR from an exploding battery [which happens anyway] the chip will not allow the battery to be charged.  What some people have done, on batteries that have gone to Zero-Charge, is temporarily bypass the chip and charged the battery with a very small trickle amperage.  This can provide enough power for the battery to respond to the chip to allow normal recharge to occur.  Again, not recommended as the battery could be legitimately bad and risk explosion or fire.  Some have even removed the chip completely [although many smart devices won't recognize the battery if the chip is missing] and charged the battery.  This last part is highly dangerous as there is also nothing preventing or capping the charge going beyond the battery's max charge.  This leads to overheating, damaged cells, dissipation of lithium, either by venting or violent explosion, extreme temperature toxic fires, etc.

 

In short.....keep your battery charged in reasonable ranges and disconnect when fully charged.  Don't alter the battery in anyway, unless you're experienced and take appropriate precautions.  

[bakidota]

20 minutes ago, Enderman said:

As long as the voltage doesn't drop below 2.8-2.5v then there is no damage done, and this is handled by the battery controller so you can't see the voltages.

Obviously with the way battery cycles work, if you only discharge it to 50%, you will be able to charge it twice as many times.

Overall the lifespan is the same.

 

The only thing that is sometimes recommended is not charging to 100%.

do you actually recommend always charging when the battery drops down to 50%? Also why not charge it until 100% and then disconnect, charging it to 90% seems a bit of a hassle since you will have to keep an eye on your phone.

[Enderman]

4 minutes ago, bakidota said:

do you actually recommend always charging when the battery drops down to 50%? Also why not charge it until 100% and then disconnect, charging it to 90% seems a bit of a hassle since you will have to keep an eye on your phone.

No, t's fine to discharge the battery all the way because the phone will keep it from getting to dangerous levels.

Also not charging to 100% has shown slight increase in battery life, which is why teslas only charge to 80% unless you tell it to if you're going on a long road trip.

[Doramius]

1 minute ago, Enderman said:

No, t's fine to discharge the battery all the way because the phone will keep it from getting to dangerous levels.

Also not charging to 100% has shown slight increase in battery life, which is why teslas only charge to 80% unless you tell it to if you're going on a long road trip.

It's recommended to charge to 100%.  If the battery is at 70%, it's okay to charge it on a Lithium type battery. Tesla batteries aren't the same as regular Lithium batteries, especially in the cars.  They're made specifically for massive amperage draw and return, while preventing overheating.  This also includes the batteries they use for their solar panels that attach to homes and large appliances.  You don't want a hot 100% battery to discharge rapidly, as it can damage the battery.  When dealing with smaller batteries in laptops and cell phones, You still can charge to 100%.  You just don't want to recharge if you're still in the 90% range.  Full discharges will do more damage than trickle charging at 100%, but you want to be smart about how you charge your devices if you want to lengthen the life of the battery.

[Enderman]

2 minutes ago, Doramius said:

It's recommended to charge to 100%.  If the battery is at 70%, it's okay to charge it on a Lithium type battery. Tesla batteries aren't the same as regular Lithium batteries, especially in the cars.  They're made specifically for massive amperage draw and return, while preventing overheating.  This also includes the batteries they use for their solar panels that attach to homes and large appliances.  You don't want a hot 100% battery to discharge rapidly, as it can damage the battery.  When dealing with smaller batteries in laptops and cell phones, You still can charge to 100%.  You just don't want to recharge if you're still in the 90% range.  Full discharges will do more damage than trickle charging at 100%, but you want to be smart about how you charge your devices if you want to lengthen the life of the battery.

Tesla batteries are literally the exact same thing, they are lipo batteries, they are just cylindrical cells instead of flat packs.

Full discharges do not do any kind of damage unless you drop below 2.8-2.5v.

[Doramius]

5 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Tesla batteries are literally the exact same thing, they are lipo batteries, they are just cylindrical cells instead of flat packs.

Full discharges do not do any kind of damage unless you drop below 2.8-2.5v.

Tesla actually uses a Lithium Cobalt battery.  They are NOT the same as Lithium Polymer.  It's important because the cobalt cathode which, helps extend the length of use per charge, but can also handle the high discharge/recharge rate.  It's not the same as a battery used in your laptop.

[Enderman]

4 minutes ago, Doramius said:

Tesla actually uses a Lithium Cobalt battery.  They are NOT the same as Lithium Polymer.  It's important because the cobalt cathode which, helps extend the length of use per charge, but can also handle the high discharge/recharge rate.  It's not the same as a battery used in your laptop.

Fyi, a lithium battery is still called a lipo battery regardless of what the cathode is made out of...

And tesla uses 18650 batteries, now switching to 20700, and they are all called "lithium ion"

LiPO is just a name given to lithium ion batteries that are not in cylindrical format.

 

PS- the fact that is has a cobalt cathode does not magically make it "more sensitive" than regular lipos and "should only be charged to 80%" to extend life.

[Doramius]

The phrase was supposed to say "They are NOT the same as "other" Lithium Polymer."   Li-Po is a name given to batteries that use a solid polymer for the electrolyte in the anode.  Thus the Term SPE.  However, just because it uses a SPE, does not make all Li-POs the same.  Tesla batteries also use PFPE electrolytes.  

 

That's like stating that Ni-Cd and Ni-Mh are the same.  While there may be many similar properties, they are not and the recharge and discharge precautions are not the same.

[Enderman]

18 minutes ago, Doramius said:

The phrase was supposed to say "They are NOT the same as "other" Lithium Polymer."   Li-Po is a name given to batteries that use a solid polymer for the electrolyte in the anode.  Thus the Term SPE.  However, just because it uses a SPE, does not make all Li-POs the same.  Tesla batteries also use PFPE electrolytes.  

 

That's like stating that Ni-Cd and Ni-Mh are the same.  While there may be many similar properties, they are not and the recharge and discharge precautions are not the same.

Explain to me how tesla's magical cobalt electrode (which they recommend charging to 80%) not apply to lithium polymer.

 

btw

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/the_high_power_lithium_ion

"Li-cobalt

High capacity; for cell phone laptop, camera"

 

Oh wow, totally contradicts what you're saying.

 

Oh and look, the battery life prolongation practices apply to all lithium ion types! Not just cobalt! Look at that!

[Doramius]

18 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Explain to me how tesla's magical cobalt electrode (which they recommend charging to 80%) not apply to lithium polymer.

 

btw

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/archive/the_high_power_lithium_ion

"Li-cobalt

High capacity; for cell phone laptop, camera"

 

Oh wow, totally contradicts what you're saying.

 

Oh and look, the battery life prolongation practices apply to all lithium ion types! Not just cobalt! Look at that!

You win, it's all the same science.  the differences in the electrolyte, the cathode material, and design have no difference in how a battery is made.  You go ahead with your extra sensitive battery practices and your incomplete knowledge.  I'm happy to accept the fact that you feel you're right.  

[Enderman]

25 minutes ago, Doramius said:

You go ahead with your extra sensitive battery practices and your incomplete knowledge

It's funny how you think you're still right even though there is plenty of evidence and tests on the internet that recommend only charging lithium batteries to 80/90%, or fast charging to 80% and then trickle charging.

 

I proved your "it's different for lithium cobalt batteries" claims wrong, yet you still have trouble admitting you're wrong.

Charging and discharging practices apply to all lithium batteries.

 

tbh it's kinda sad how you don't have any sources to back up your unsubstantiated claims.

At least google "lithium battery charging to extend lifespan" or something similar so you can learn something and maybe make correct arguments in the future.

 

 

 

There's quite a few things you might learn, including:

-charging to 80-90% extends lifespan (~4.1v)

-discharging fully (as long as it's above 2.8v) does not cause any harm

-charging at low temperatures can damage the battery

-lithium batteries do not have a memory effect

-a charge cycle counts as a full depletion and recharge of the battery's rated capacity (aka discharging only 10% and recharging it will count as 1/10th of a charge cycle)

And more stuff too.