Future of the Windows Mobile Platform

[SansVarnic]

Ok this is not necessarily "News" but more of a 'News Review' and a continuation of the discussion involving the Windows Mobile Platform.

I want to start with saying that I have been attempting to explain what is in the following 2 articles for some time now, the author of these 2 articles do a much better job of conveying this and is in my opinion spot on. Windows Mobile is not supposed to be Mobile Phones but mobile platforms with cellular capability at least that is the "vision" that Microsoft has and is pointed out in one of the articles. Continuum was the first proof of concept to expand on the mobile platform and Microsoft is looking to establish here and imo they are on the later half of the long road to reaching this point. There are many applications for this platform that I could not list them all but just a few police, IT, traveling businessmen, etc... 

 

This going to be a bit lengthy. Apologies.

 

Source 1: http://1reddrop.com/2017/04/20/surface-phone-is-not-a-smartphone-vital-concept-understand/

Source 2: http://1reddrop.com/2017/04/19/windows-10-mobile-not-dead-supported-device-list-thinning-out/

 

Surface Phone is Not a Smartphone, and It is a Vital Concept to Understand

By  Shudeep Chandrasekhar - April 20, 2017

 

Quote

Despite the name that it’s been given, Surface Phone isn’t going to be a phone at all. At least, not if Microsoft is designing what they refer to as a “cellular PC” that will have all the capabilities of a PC in the form factor of a smartphone or phablet. On the surface, it’s a phone, but underneath, it’s a whole lot more.

The whole idea behind Surface Phone is so that Microsoft won’t have to scramble for market share in the unfairly competitive smartphone operating system market, where Android rules and iOS holds fort on the strength of its devices. And that’s about it. Windows, right now, holds a minuscule 0.3 percent marketshare in this fiercely competitive segment that is the mobile OS world.

The whole idea behind Surface Phone is so that Microsoft won’t have to scramble for market share in the unfairly competitive smartphone operating system market, where Android rules and iOS holds fort on the strength of its devices. And that’s about it. Windows, right now, holds a minuscule 0.3 percent marketshare in this fiercely competitive segment that is the mobile OS world.

And that’s why butting their head (once again) against a brick wall that is now fortified with industrial-grade steel in the form of Android and iOS is sheer lunacy.

Which is exactly why Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella won’t be doing that. His approach to everything has been faultlessly methodical, yet creatively devious.

Quote

Now, it’s time for the second half of that strategy: the ‘mobile first’ part. And by mobile, Nadella is not talking about mobile phones. He’s referring to mobility in the abstract. And that’s essentially what Surface Phone represents. That is also why it is so many years in the making. Surface Phone is not a smartphone in any conventional sense except, perhaps, from a physical dimensions perspective – the fact that you will eventually be able to hold it in your hand and put it in your pocket. But that’s as far as the similarity between a Surface Phone and a smartphone or phablet goes. Period.

Quote

That leads us to the strategy that Nadella has been using to his advantage – the “creatively devious” approach I spoke about earlier. He knew that he could not combat AWS and its significant lead head-on by merely offering a rival cloud infrastructure service. So he went after the SaaS market, using Microsoft’s inherent strength in enterprise productivity and collaboration software.

 

But in pushing Office 365 aggressively to the clients that Microsoft already had, the company was taking a big risk in the form of potential cannibalization of Microsoft’s core Office standalone software licensing revenues. That gamble paid off big time, and Office 365 is now the most widely used SaaS application in the world. It turns out that it was easier to push Salesforce.com, Box and Google Apps for Work out of the way than it was to push AWS out of the way.

Quote

Major technology cycles come in waves, and it might help to explain the concept pictorially:

That’s Surface Phone right there, at the bottom, below “see” level, biding its time.

Meanwhile, the smartphone market has reached a measure of maturity, which we’re seeing as a decline in smartphone sales growth around the world. Sales will eventually stabilize, but we’re not going to see any major innovations from here on out – not even from Apple, I dare say.

The graph above says it all. I wish I had thought to do something like this when I made my case.

The smart phone is on a decline and we all can see this and have at some point or another admitted to this, I know because I have seen it in this forum many times e.g. iPhone has no real continued innovation in the last few versions, Android phone hardware has also reach a point of no real innovation. We have imo reached an impasse for the smartphone in terms of technology for this idea. Now I am not saying that the Surface Mobile platform is going to change how we see technology like the iPhone did but it will change the game.

 

 

Windows 10 Mobile is Not Dead, But the Supported Devices List is Thinning Out

By  Shudeep Chandrasekhar - April 19, 2017

 

Quote

The question of Windows 10 Mobile being dead – or in its last days – have been denied by Microsoft, but there’s no question that updates are being pushed well after PCs get their new builds. In what can only be termed a confirmation of this dichotomy, Microsoft announced new builds for PC and Mobile for the latest beta of Windows 10, but the build number for PC was 16176, while for mobile it was 15205.

Quote

So, is Windows 10 Mobile dying or is it not? That’s what’s confusing here because, beyond Windows 10 Creators Update – specifically, Windows 10 Redstone 3 – even the so-called lucky devices might not get updates if things continue this way. Of course, that was vaguely, even cryptically, denied by Senior Program Manager on the Windows Insider Program team Brandon LeBlanc.

That’s neither here nor there, and LeBlanc did not respond to the many tweets that followed.

Quote

While all of this looks like Microsoft is trying to bring further bifurcation between PC and Mobile, the exact opposite might be happening. There’s no doubt that the company is trying to bridge the PC and mobile experiences, but that crucial functionality is in transition at the moment. As it attempts to bring x86 instructions support to new ARM processors, Microsoft is also trying to unify the code between PC and Mobile. The problem is: there aren’t that many devices that are amenable to this type of unification.

Quote

Microsoft is not interesting in fighting Android and iOS head-on, because that would be a lost battle even before it began. Combined, Android and iOS hold no less than 99.6% market share of mobile operating systems.

Quote

Microsoft is now going after a user experience that neither Google nor Apple can match – the ultimate mobility, evidenced by the ability to switch devices seamlessly without any loss of experience or continuity. Apple and Google have bits and pieces of their own, but revolutionary technological leaps aren’t made by mere bits and pieces.

Unfortunately, the bearers of that burden of transition – at least one group we know of – are Windows 10 Mobile smartphone owners. Hopefully, that will be a temporary experience – labor pains, in other words. We can only hope that Windows mobile users will be patient enough and loyal enough to see that transition through to its inevitable fructification, and be convinced to move to the new generation of mobile devices offering the full Windows experience, not just a mobile one.

Though it is not cool that MS decided to thin out the line of supported phones for future builds BUT it has been common knowledge or should I say logical  that as the Mobile OS/Platform developed more phones would be dropped as the hardware requirements changed. We all know that currently any phone not on the list is most likely not going to be able to support x86 programming.

 

 

I don't have much more to add myself here at the moment, but that said I am glad these articles were written as it backs up my stance I have taken for the last few years now.

There is more in the article themselves and are good reads if your willing to spend the few minutes to read them.

 

My disclaimer: I am a mediocre fan of Microsoft so my input is not to defend Microsoft on the Windows Phone but to strictly defend the idea and platform being developed under Microsoft.

When Microsoft started way back with Windows Phone 7 got me hooked on their mobile platform, they took the smart phone idea and used their Windows CE / Windows Mobile 6 OS and made something pretty decent imo and though they pulled some MS stupidity along the way the idea and the "vision" of the platform is solid and I saw/see it happening. 

 

 

Please Healthy discussion is encouraged and any comments of the defamatory/flame war type will be reported and asked to be deleted by mods.

Thanks for staying civil.  

[SCHISCHKA]

i remember a few years ago when Android took over the iphone; business was stuck on Windows CE. I liked their plans for windows 7 & C# but MS just wasn't delivering, too slow to market and Java had been on mobiles for ages. Im not just talking about phones but GPS and commercial users of PDAs. Due to Apples dictatorship over devices and an existing number of mobile java developers, a lot switched to embedded linux and Java; I highly doubt they will switch back to a MS platform now. MS has to bring something bigger than a new developer API; they need to significantly lower the cost of their platform and do something like Apple and produce their own chips that are locked on the windows platform; i don't see this happening.

[dizmo]

I don't see it working out for them. I mean it's all great and good to put Windows onto something the size of a phone, but without a customized UI how is it going to function at all nicely? Are you going to have to zoom in all the time to read what you're looking at? Or use a stylus to navigate? At that point, why not just get a tablet? Thus eliminating the need for a phone entirely.

I don't understand why Microsoft needs to be in the phone market at all. They should just leave it for those that do it better.

[SansVarnic]

7 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I don't see it working out for them. I mean it's all great and good to put Windows onto something the size of a phone, but without a customized UI how is it going to function at all nicely? Are you going to have to zoom in all the time to read what you're looking at? Or use a stylus to navigate? At that point, why not just get a tablet? Thus eliminating the need for a phone entirely.

I don't understand why Microsoft needs to be in the phone market at all. They should just leave it for those that do it better.

Apparently you missed the point of the post. 

[GoodBytes]

44 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I don't see it working out for them. I mean it's all great and good to put Windows onto something the size of a phone, but without a customized UI how is it going to function at all nicely? Are you going to have to zoom in all the time to read what you're looking at? Or use a stylus to navigate? At that point, why not just get a tablet? Thus eliminating the need for a phone entirely.

I don't understand why Microsoft needs to be in the phone market at all. They should just leave it for those that do it better.

If anything, they'll use Windows 10 Mobile GUI layer when in "phone mode", which is basically the Windows 10 start menu in 2 sections, where you have your tiles only, swipe on the side to get your all list of installed apps. GUI of Windows 10 Mobile (this also includes: Windows Phone 7, and 8, as it is fairly the same) is superb, and both Apple and Android took a few pages from it. I suspect that in "phone" mode, you can only run UWP apps, which is what Windows 10 Mobile runs, and Windows 10 supports and most built-in apps are made with this platform (Groove Music, Movie & TV, Settings panel, Calculator, File Explorer (Windows 10 Mobile only), Edge, Mail, Calendar, Skype, and many many more.. you have the list in your start menu, if you run Win10), and when docked in some fashion to get the desktop experience, now you can run Win32 apps.

 

I think the idea is that when you dock it, you have the full Windows 10 experience, with Win32/x86 app support via emulation (which has been shown to be very promising on a Snapdragon 820 with big software like Photoshop. Microsoft aims for 835 model and higher/newer for Windows 10 on ARM, which means it will be ensure a great experience).

 

Right now, Continuum is a desktop-like experience. It is a replica of Windows 10 desktop. Now what I am about to say is 100% guess work, but it looks like that every app, including start menu is some sort of remote session to the phone, and is limited to the way the OS, being for mobile phones, works, where multi-tasking is limited. The end result is not this great desktop experience, but it is one that works, which is the first time that you have something usable, without throwing your device out the window, and flip the table over. And that was with a Snapdragon 808 and 810.

 

My guess is that Microsoft evaluated that with the 835 processors would be able to deliver the needed performance, and provide good battery life (full day) to operate everything in smartphone mode for most average users, or light usage, and it will only go up from there. Meaning, they see a possible starting point for such device that can be a phone, laptop, desktop.

[SansVarnic]

@dizmo Sorry my previous post was short I had to go address something at work.

 

Like @GoodBytes mentioned the GUI of the Windows Phones would be the go to for the mobile device and why would it not be? the thought of using the desktop on a 5 inch screen would an obvious fail of MS's part in terms of a GUI to interact with. 

As I mentioned with Continuum it was a successful proof of concept and this model is a great core use of the mobile device to build around.

The phone market is not the target of the Windows Mobile Platform as stated by the author and myself in the post.

[GoodBytes]

Here is an old, but exactly to the discussion topic, interesting video:

Basically, it says that Android and iOS has 99% of the market share of smartphone, and there is no real shift in market share. It is impossible for a new comer to come to the party, unless they bring something drastic. And that isn't some new phone feature, or new GUI... or new hardware (which is useless as Samsung and Google pretty much always put the best thing money can get). It must be something drastic....

 

This is maybe Windows 10 on ARM answer, and direction that I think Microsoft has already taking. Basically, I expect by the end of the year, like in Sept. or Oct, Microsoft pull the plug on Windows 10 Mobile (all apps will still be updated, as they are updated for Windows 10. This is thanks to the Universal App platform (UWP). So, the most important thing will continue to have updates, just no more OS bug fixes or new features at a OS level. Then they'll release Windows 10 on ARM with Chromebook-like systems, which is a must as Intel no longer makes Atom based CPUs, and Core Ms are too pricey. And soon after, whenever it is ready, "Surface phone", this all-in-one device with pen support (of course, it will have a pen.. it is Surface branded device.. got to have the pen! :P). My guess, is that it will be a OLED foldable phone/tablet that can be docked to get an actual desktop experience where you have this mini-PC that can run Steam, run Office, and all your programs. Wont' be fast enougth for actual heavy usage, or any gaming from Steam, of course (especially due to emulation), but for most people it will be powerful enough. For example, for me, at work, while I have a laptop, everything is remotely accede, even software compiling is remotely done to a Linux powered VM running on a server (Windows. And that Linux OS runs under Hyper-V, if you wonder). So I don't need any RAM, CPU power, or anything really. And Office and web surfing... even a crap Atom is enougth for this. It would be awesome for me, and I think for many people. Companies can get this device instead of giving laptops to employees, and maybe a laptop dock thing similarly to the HP Elite x3, for on the go work.

[captain_to_fire]

2 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

Despite the name that it’s been given, Surface Phone isn’t going to be a phone at all. At least, not if Microsoft is designing what they refer to as a “cellular PC” that will have all the capabilities of a PC in the form factor of a smartphone or phablet. On the surface, it’s a phone, but underneath, it’s a whole lot more.

The whole idea behind Surface Phone is so that Microsoft won’t have to scramble for market share in the unfairly competitive smartphone operating system market, where Android rules and iOS holds fort on the strength of its devices. 

More like upcoming vaporware. Just saying

[Misanthrope]

Reminds me of the same kind of in between phone and laptop concept Nokia tried (back before they sucked) called the N900

 

Of course I'm sure they'll do a lot fucking better 8 years later but still the fact that it was a full featured Linux desktop back then was kind of awesome.

[SansVarnic]

17 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

<snip snip>

I watched and I agreed with TechAltar 100%. It is not about challenging direct it about changing the rules of the game. To quote a quote in my op;

Quote

by mobile, Nadella is not talking about mobile phones. He’s referring to mobility in the abstract. And that’s essentially what Surface Phone represents. Surface Phone is not a smartphone in any conventional sense except, perhaps, from a physical dimensions perspective – the fact that you will eventually be able to hold it in your hand and put it in your pocket. But that’s as far as the similarity between a Surface Phone and a smartphone or phablet goes. Period.

 

18 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

More like upcoming vaporware. Just saying

There is a lot more to it than just the part you quoted but your opinion is your own.

[SansVarnic]

25 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

<snip>

I don't have a specific expected outcome at the moment, just super interested in the platform and the possibilities that could come of it.

All three points that you made to get you to use the Windows phone are part of the platform's expectations from Microsoft. This is part of the picture that Windows 10 is supposed to be according to Nadella. Thing is you are referring to it as a phone and it  is not going to be a phone.

As the author made a distinct point in his title to address and I agree with it 100%;

5 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

Surface Phone is Not a Smartphone, and It is a Vital Concept to Understand

 

[Trixanity]

I just don't see this happening at all.

 

Of course, Windows Mobile is about to be axed that's for sure.

There is no indication that anything below a SD820 or maybe even SD835 can do x86 emulation properly so any mid range device will be axed. That includes a lot of the currently supported Windows Mobile devices including some of the more popular (a very generous word) devices like the Lumia 600 series and 900 series. It seems like the only device that might survive is the HP Elite X3 although that's still unclear if the OP is right. That's an excellent strategy to make their users happy.

 

The OS needs to be mobile-first to work on a smartphone form factor. The current 'desktop' OS isn't. They're slowly transitioning it towards being more laptop-friendly with stuff like Power Throttling but being phone-friendly? Hardly. 

 

A theoretical Surface Phone would be a minor niche device and won't at all be consumer-facing. No consumer would pick up a phone running Windows in any shape or form. Apps, features and even the general user experience are sorely lacking.

They might be able to find some place in businesses but the majority of their phones won't be running Windows.

 

UWP doesn't seem to be taking off either. Some wins here and there but it doesn't seem like developers are flocking to it like they're "supposed" to. This whole strategy falls apart without UWP being ubiquitous. As I've said several times in the past: x86 on a small touch screen is stupid which means x86 emulation is purely for a 'desktop' experience and docks will be almost exclusively for businesses and will be niche solutions. An x86 emulation scenario might create a small but vocal user base but it's primarily a business tool and a niche one at at that. It won't save their phone business but it'll allow to sell a phone to a small number of businesses who might have use it for. Question is if the cost is worth filling this tiny void and whether these businesses are willing to transition to this and experiment with it or if they'll hold off due to the risk involved.

 

The oft-linked video talking about web apps is a potential future that isn't here yet. Google is experimenting with it themselves but we're what? 5 years away? 10 years even? By the time we're there, smartphones might not be the form factor we use anymore.

 

What this means is that Windows, in any shape or form, won't really take off on phones.

Their execution is too slow as well. People have already lost interest a long time ago.

[Doobeedoo]

Hmm interesting though. Portable cellular PC concept thing huh. So like pretty much a smartphone along with Windows PC capabilities along cellular on the go.

I wonder how this will go off in time, I get the idea and all just the execution of it is the question.

[GoodBytes]

8 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Hmm interesting though. Portable cellular PC concept thing huh. So like pretty much a smartphone along with Windows PC capabilities along cellular on the go.

I wonder how this will go off in time, I get the idea and all just the execution of it is the question.

I REALLY doubt that the device will be sold to consumers... it might be at Microsoft Store (online and not), with a nice 800$ price tag, and no subsidized plan option with a carrier. MAX AT&T plan only, as AT&T seems to have a good relationship with Microsoft.

 

Microsoft is horrible at marketing a device to consumers with the exception of Surface, and even then... Professionals only (pushed with the price tag also).

So, it will be aimed at enterprises, where the push that "You don't need Snapchat, etc. in the work environment" is a valid and accepted argument, and such device replaced employees desktops. All they need is a dock station at the office, and a cheap laptop dock for on the go work, where if it gets stolen, no data is loss, as everything is on the phone, in the employee pocket (and the phone has a wide range of security features in the case it gets stolen).

 

I think this is Microsoft strategy. As the market share will grow there, more and more apps will be ported for the OS (which also means Windows 10 non ARM users will enjoy it as well, and the market share will be boosted by current Windows 10 users base). It will ease justification to make the app on the platform, is what I mean. It kinda already worked with Windows 10 Mobile, so, I see it worked. And then slowly grow from there... slowly creeping to the consumer market with better camera, consumer features, and lower price tag as chips becomes cheaper to make, lower end models get faster to run it all, and battery tech advances.

[Nowak]

Just give it up with this "Surface Phone" shit already, it's not happening. Nothing more than vaporware.

 

8 hours ago, Trixanity said:

The oft-linked video talking about web apps is a potential future that isn't here yet.

Indeed. Web apps, in my experiences, are still way too clunky to be viable replacements for apps. Hell, Apple tried that when they launched the iPhone, early versions of iOS (or, iPhone OS, rather), didn't have an app store. Instead, they expected users to use web apps. Look how well that turned out.

 

If web apps are to be the future, then why has there been no sign of that becoming true?

[GoodBytes]

4 minutes ago, Daring said:

Just give it up with this "Surface Phone" shit already, it's not happening. Nothing more than vaporware.

When we say "Surface Phone", we don't mean a smartphone. It is to indicate the future of mobile device, what ever will be.

It can be a mini-Surface that can phone calls and powered by a Core M series, for all we know.

 

The device will happen, there is no choice.. it is that, or Microsoft closes its doors. So even if the company is anti-smartphones, they are forced to adapt to the technology changes.

 

Quote

Indeed. Web apps, in my experiences, are still way too clunky to be viable replacements for apps. Hell, Apple tried that when they launched the iPhone, early versions of iOS (or, iPhone OS, rather), didn't have an app store. Instead, they expected users to use web apps. Look how well that turned out.

 

If web apps are to be the future, then why has there been no sign of that becoming true?

I don't know... but I am sure that it has more to do with the limited web browser the smartphone has, and/or web app makers don't really care.

[Nowak]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

It can be a mini-Surface that can phone calls and powered by a Core M series, for all we know.

Sooooo, a cellular tablet? That already exists.

 

If there's anything that Microsoft is in the mobile space, it isn't innovative. Not anymore, anyway.

[Trixanity]

13 minutes ago, Daring said:

Just give it up with this "Surface Phone" shit already, it's not happening. Nothing more than vaporware.

 

Indeed. Web apps, in my experiences, are still way too clunky to be viable replacements for apps. Hell, Apple tried that when they launched the iPhone, early versions of iOS (or, iPhone OS, rather), didn't have an app store. Instead, they expected users to use web apps. Look how well that turned out.

 

If web apps are to be the future, then why has there been no sign of that becoming true?

WebAssembly is supposed to provide a near-native web app experience as far as I know. However like with anything else: it requires developers to pick it up and it will take years for it to become ubiquitous (if it does). 

[GoodBytes]

16 minutes ago, Daring said:

Sooooo, a cellular tablet? That already exists.

 

If there's anything that Microsoft is in the mobile space, it isn't innovative. Not anymore, anyway.

Nope. That runs Android. Not a full Windows OS.

[Nowak]

Just now, GoodBytes said:

Nope. That runs Android. Not a full Windows OS.

Still. That's a form factor that was already tried and didn't take off.

 

Microsoft (and evidently Google) need to realize that the smartphone, as we know it, isn't going away any time soon.

[GoodBytes]

4 minutes ago, Daring said:

Still. That's a form factor that was already tried and didn't take off.

Because those are useless. They are just larger phones. Not a device that unifies devices. This is what the Surface line devices is all about. A tablet that is a laptop, A laptop that is a tablet and a drawing surface. a all-in-one PC that is a drawing tablet. There is fusion of devices. They are many combinations that can be done.

 

Here we are talking about a device that is your desktop, laptop, possibly a small tablet, and a phone, that can provide a smooth, responsive experience on all these modes for most people.

 

4 minutes ago, Daring said:

Microsoft (and evidently Google) need to realize that the smartphone, as we know it, isn't going away any time soon.

Sure, but right now, the market has stop moving in the smartphone field. That is why Samsung is pursuing Continuum idea with its new phone.

Why pick LG phone? Why pick any phone manufacture.. they are all the same. They all have a high end phone, runs Android, has all the same features give or take, costs more or less the same for the features it has. In other words, "pick your color".

 

iPhone users aren't switching to Android, and Android users aren't switching to Android. The market share is not really moving on either direction, is what I mean. There is no growth, and that is not acceptable in tech world. In addition, there is no reason to switch from a 1, 2, or even 3 year old phone to the latest greatest phone today, beside a slightly better camera and faster specs on a phone that runs fine already.

 

And people don't like separate devices... great effort was done to unifies experience, but really only Apple and Microsoft has it down, as Apple has it's MacOS to extend/continue the iPhone/iPad experience, and Microsoft has Windows. Example, if I receive a text message on my phone, I see it on my desktop or Surface, where I can view the history of the conversation and message back using my keyboard. I didn't need to fetch my phone. I can type in the windows 10 search box "Where is my phone", and Windows will show me a map of where my phone is, and I can ring it from my PC. I didn't have to install any additional software on either my PC or phone. I didn't need to go to some website and login. It is just there and working. And with the rest, such as OneDrive, notification sync between my phone and PC, my phone is not this device apart... it is an extension of my PC. Android is completely separate.

 

But even that is not perfect, and I still need to carry 2 things (Surface + phone) when I am on the go. Can I have 1 system? That is where the "Surface phone" come in.

[Nowak]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Android users aren't switching to Android

Well, it's kinda hard to switch to an OS you already use  

 

tbh, while DeX seems like it's everything that Continuum should be, I don't see it taking off either. Continuum hasn't set the world on fire, so why would DeX?

 

Also, keep in mind that Microsoft's admitted to de-prioritizing Windows Phone development, at least as far as apps are concerned, twice. If the Surface Phone ever becomes a real product that you can buy in stores, don't expect it to run Windows.

[SansVarnic]

This discussion is not about a Surface Phone. Been said now multiple times. 

We discussion the development of a Surface/Windows Mobile Platform - mobile pc with on board interface similar to but not a smartphone/tablet.

 

 

3 hours ago, Daring said:

Just give it up with this "Surface Phone" shit already, it's not happening. Nothing more than vaporware.

As has been quoted twice now I will say it in another way;

Microsoft has no/none/zero interest in competing in the Smart Phone market that is why this is Not A Smart Phone being developed.

For a lack of an official term it would be a true compact/mobile pc with a smart phone like interface.

The smartphones that have been released and supported are there to fill the void that is the demand (even if it may be a small demand) for such a product. 

 

3 hours ago, Daring said:

Well, it's kinda hard to switch to an OS you already use  

 

tbh, while DeX seems like it's everything that Continuum should be, I don't see it taking off either. Continuum hasn't set the world on fire, so why would DeX?

 

Also, keep in mind that Microsoft's admitted to de-prioritizing Windows Phone development, at least as far as apps are concerned, twice. If the Surface Phone ever becomes a real product that you can buy in stores, don't expect it to run Windows.

Your looking at this backwards. DeX was developed with Microsoft's help to do accomplish 2 things; 1) to give the idea more exposure and 2) to fill the vacuum of competition that was lacking with Continuum. Essentially Continuum and DeX is a peak into the grand scheme here.

 

I have not seen any de-prioritizing of any development - I just downloaded another build for the Windows mobile in the previewers fast ring yesterday. On the previewers blog there has been an uptick in discussion on the topic and plans to continue development for sometime, Redstone 3 is the next take off that is expected to see the next stage in this development.

 

The idea of the Surface/Windows Mobile Platform (I will no longer utilize the term Phone as it no longer applies) is to not so much replace as it is to add to as an option in the Business and Tech world to the laptop and tablet which are admittedly clumsy devices for the most part. Though tablets and laptops just like smartphones have a market, tablets don't live up to the expectation that was promoted by its development. Laptops have been around for a long time and are not always the easiest thing to carry around. Right now I have for the most part stopped using laptops and tablets as Continuum has essentially replace those 2 devices for me, I just have a dock and monitor set up at each location that need it for and bam I am set up to do what is needed. I still have my desktop pc and even the question has been asked I don't how many times now but the PC will never really die.

 

Now IBM came out with its own pocket PC that Linus showed us a while ago but it was just a smartphone sized brick you hooked up to your monitor and no on board interface to speak of. The device here is still use-able after its unplugged and has cellular capability to fill that need. Everyone and their dog has a Bluetooth earpiece for cellular  phone use so  the interface at this point is secondary in nature for this type of device.

 

13 hours ago, Trixanity said:

A theoretical Surface Phone would be a minor niche device and won't at all be consumer-facing. No consumer would pick up a phone running Windows in any shape or form. Apps, features and even the general user experience are sorely lacking.

They might be able to find some place in businesses but the majority of their phones won't be running Windows.

The lack of certain apps are no concern here as the focus is for enterprise and not common consumer use.

The point here is not to emulate x86 but to run x86. Essentially Continuum and DeX is a peak into the grand scheme here.

 

 

 

 

Apparently this was overlooked and answers several questions;

 

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Here we are talking about a device that is your desktop, laptop, possibly a small tablet, and a phone, that can provide a smooth, responsive experience on all these modes for most people.

Exactly.

 

4 hours ago, Daring said:

If there's anything that Microsoft is in the mobile space, it isn't innovative. Not anymore, anyway.

That was also pointed out in the OP and this why Microsoft is not looking to re-invent the phone, they are looking to change the rules of mobility. The video that @GoodBytes posted above by TechAltar makes this point very clear.

 

13 hours ago, Trixanity said:

The oft-linked video talking about web apps is a potential future that isn't here yet. Google is experimenting with it themselves but we're what? 5 years away? 10 years even? By the time we're there, smartphones might not be the form factor we use anymore

4 hours ago, Daring said:

Indeed. Web apps, in my experiences, are still way too clunky to be viable replacements for apps. Hell, Apple tried that when they launched the iPhone, early versions of iOS (or, iPhone OS, rather), didn't have an app store. Instead, they expected users to use web apps. Look how well that turned out.

 

If web apps are to be the future, then why has there been no sign of tha

4 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

I don't know... but I am sure that it has more to do with the limited web browser the smartphone has, and/or web app makers don't really care

Web based apps is an interesting concept and could possibly over come the high controversial "app gap" issue across platforms, the potential is there of course but I don't believe it will catch on quickly until a need or demand develops from the community. If the Mobility concept that Microsoft has here does take off then it is possible that web based apps can be a thing. Some do already exist though like the Office 365 web apps... they are a thing already. 

Web based apps are not a widely accepted idea because of the Smartphone, nobody is going to utilize web apps on a smartphone, there are plenty of web page link apps already and they are hated by the community in general. Now a web based app on a desktop environment like Continuum and DeX would be no issue.

 

Microsoft is already more than half way there, they have succeeded in producing web/cloud based services and that was the first stage focus as pointed out in the article above and the graph below; 

They have overtaken both AWS, Salesforce, and Google apps in a time line that was not thought to happen. 

 

The point of the mobility concept being developed essentially supports this new device concept following up on Continuum and DeX style interfaces and will in essence utilize web/cloud based services.

[Nowak]

30 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I have not seen any de-prioritizing of any development - I just downloaded another build for the Windows mobile in the previewers fast ring yesterday. On the previewers blog there has been an uptick in discussion on the topic and plans to continue development for sometime, Redstone 3 is the next take off that is expected to see the next stage in this development.

I meant as in apps. Right now on my Android phone, I can sign into my Microsoft account without using my password via their authenticator app. Can you do that on your Windows phone? No, because they didn't bring it over to the platform, because it represents less than 5% of all their total users of the app and so porting over the feature is not worth it. On the subject of operating system updates, according to this review, the Creators Update doesn't bring much new to phones other than an app that's basically useless (Viewer 3D) and being able to reply to phone calls and texts in the notification center, something I've been able to do with my Android phone since 2015, when I switched over. Probably earlier than that, too, but I wouldn't know. I used Windows Phone back then. Oh, and some relatively minor "new" features, too.

 

Microsoft's own OS has fallen behind the curve. Way behind. Welcome to 2015, boys!  

 

37 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

That was also pointed out in the OP and this why Microsoft is not looking to re-invent the phone, they are looking to change the rules of mobility. The video that @GoodBytes posted above by TechAltar makes this point very clear.

Well, I wish them luck with that strategy, considering how the four devices generating the most buzz right now are the Samsung Galaxy S8, LG G6, Google Pixel and iPhone 7 - traditional mobile phones, and something that'll likely remain true for a very, very long time.

 

39 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

As has been quoted twice now I will say it in another way;

Microsoft has no/none/zero interest in competing in the Smart Phone market that is why this is Not A Smart Phone being developed.

For a lack of an official term it would be a true compact/mobile pc with a smart phone like interface.

Then... why continue to refer to it as a phone, when this magical unicorn device isn't a phone?

[SansVarnic]

36 minutes ago, Daring said:

I can sign into my Microsoft account without using my password via their authenticator app. Can you do that on your Windows phone?

Yes I can. I do it all the time. My phone (via the same app) receives the request to login in and I have accept or decline each time, that is how my login is set up.

36 minutes ago, Daring said:

Well, I wish them luck with that strategy, considering how the four devices generating the most buzz right now are the Samsung Galaxy S8, LG G6, Google Pixel and iPhone 7 - traditional mobile phones, and something that'll likely remain true for a very, very long time.

 

Then... why continue to refer to it as a phone, when this magical unicorn device isn't a phone?

I digress, the answer to your question has been laid out already. I am unsure how to redraw this picture for you. The fact that you continue to reference other phones in example shows me you cannot view this topic in any other way than the self-imposed limitation  you have.

Microsoft is not looking to make another phone. What more can I say to make it a bit more clear for you to understand? (I am not being cynical here)

I know you and I have discussed a Surface phone in another thread before but here we are not discussing a phone anymore. We are discussing Microsoft's vision of a different type of  Mobility Concept that I described in my last comment.

 

This statement makes it pretty clear;

"Surface Phone is Not a Smartphone, and It is a Vital Concept to Understand"