Mastercard No PIN or Signature required

[SansVarnic]

Interesting, I have mixed feelings about the tech. I would like to see some more solid results on the effectiveness of this.

[Blake]

2 hours ago, pbx2 said:

Why South Africa of all places

crime... lots and lots of crime. It's why there are so many South Africans now living in Australia... 

[dizmo]

I saw this article this morning, I think it's pretty cool that they've managed to fit a fingerprint sensor into something so thin. It's not a card that I'd get, but I can see the allure. Some people will likely get it just for the sheer novelty. I remember when everyone said fingerprint readers on phones was a stupid idea, and look where that's gone...

Tap is more than fine for me though. I'll likely stick to that. That, and I don't use Mastercard.

2 hours ago, tlink said:

i hope this fails miserably, its a bad plan all around. if they did this AND a pin code i would be kinda okay with it.

I don't see why it's that bad. Not much different than tap, but more secure.

2 hours ago, zMeul said:

how would I give the card to a family member if it only allows my fingerprints?! did MasterCard went that retard 

You wouldn't. There are people who don't give out their card to family members or friends. They wouldn't get this card, obviously. It's not like it's the only type of card they will offer. Heaven forbid we actually get some choices.

2 hours ago, WMGroomAK said:

It might not be an intended use, however there are people who do lend their cards to their spouse or kids for purchases.  Seems like a limiting factor that Mastercard may want to address.

They have other cards...

2 hours ago, GeekJump said:

No..no...NO!

 

Didn't we learn from switching to chips? Most people are stupid! I don't want to wait at check out again while someone is fumbling with their fingerprint secure card at the register. NOT AGAIN!  Plus this time the cashier can't take the card and show them how to do it because they need their fingerprint. And, besides the fact I don't think this card will be as thin as current cards, I bet people would still need to sign or something. I remember when chips were introduced and they talked about not needing to sign or put your pin in anymore...the chip takes 2x longer than the old fashion swiping. Security be damned!

 

Then if the sensor gets dirty...more wasted time.

I think that's a little extreme. The bank would show them how to use it. It's not like they just get the card in the mail with a note showing how to use it. I bet they don't have to sign for anything. I haven't had to sign a credit card transaction receipt in years. Get with the times, old man.

2 hours ago, tlink said:

you have to understand that apple pay is their direct competition.

Sort of. Most people will still use a credit card with Apple Pay, so it's more of an extension of their credit card.

1 hour ago, Belgarathian said:

I like where you're going with that. Using your banking app, you can set authorization limits. 

 

• $50 and under, pay way approved
• $51 to $200, requires pay wave and pin/finger print 
• $201 or more requires 2FA using notification from banking app on phone 

The only way I'd be fine with that is if it was user definable within the app. I don't want to have to pull out my phone and log into my banking app every single time I want to make a higher valued purchase. That takes away the convenience factor, it doesn't improve it.

[Belgarathian]

11 minutes ago, dizmo said:

The only way I'd be fine with that is if it was user definable within the app. I don't want to have to pull out my phone and log into my banking app every single time I want to make a higher valued purchase. That takes away the convenience factor, it doesn't improve it.

Hence why I limits are set in the banking app... 

 

Besides... How often are you purchasing $200+ that 2FA is going to be that much of a burden anyway? 

[Taf the Ghost]

4 hours ago, pbx2 said:

Why South Africa of all places

Normally the answer is "local laws aren't an issue".  Though this one might have something to do with the right testing population size without too much cost.  

[dizmo]

1 minute ago, Belgarathian said:

Hence why I limits are set in the banking app... 

 

Besides... How often are you purchasing $200+ that 2FA is going to be that much of a burden anyway? 

Usually every other day, sometimes multiple times a day.

If the limits are programmed in the app it wouldn't be bad, or if they could be turned off entirely. Some banks are pushy and would try to enforce their own limits.

 

[ionbasa]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with EMV (chip) no signature is required if the payment threshold is below a predetermined value, usually below $50? I know Visa implements this if the value of the transaction is below $25. 

 

So why does this even matter? In my opinion, it's kind of pointless. A better solution would be geolocation based on your banking app in your smartphone, or two-step transaction verification. Then there's no risk of having sensitive fingerprint data on file.

[Andreas Lilja]

4 hours ago, WMGroomAK said:

That was one of my thoughts on this.  My best guess is that maybe they want you to chop off your finger...  

Dunno about this, but TouchID requires a finger from a living person.

 

Know someone in customer support that had to explain this to a client.

 

[S w a t s o n]

Cool idea but i can't see any reason to use this over NFC/tap. If you're worried about the nfc skimmers just get a wallet/purse that protects against that. I have a nice one from Danier.

 

As for chip, I'm sorry that muricans/old people are too slow to learn how to put the chip side in and enter a 4-digit pin but it's straight up faster than swipe+ signature if you do it like a normal person. The signature is also not a security feature and is actually just "security theatre", the PIN is an actual security feature.

[ShiftyFella]

I don't mind it but would be concerned how good it will work, when you have your fingers dirty or oily\wet, I love touchID but I always have to wipe sensor and my fingers, as my skin is quite oily for it to work straight away. Lately, I've been more miffed with shoppers that pay in cash, as they always rummage around to find missing fiver or count change couple of times before moving along, while chip&pin just works and takes like 5 seconds, even old people here know how to use it, so I never seen a delay, where someone has to explain to you, how it works, so no delays, also having receipt arrive to you over viber straing aways is nice too

[r3d3mpt10n]

strange that this is coming to my country first....Interesting. Oh well, we do have a wealthy elite like most countries

[Eroda]

they should just do away with cash and cards already and tie your money to your DNA want to buy groceries one little prick and you got your goods

[DELTAprime]

I just hope this is something that they allow other credit card companies to use. Nothing like keeping security proprietary.

[Tomsen]

15 hours ago, zMeul said:

how would I give the card to a family member if it only allows my fingerprints?! did MasterCard went that retard 

First, you really shouldn't give out your credit card. That is simply a retarded manner to deal with what should be a non-issue.

 

15 hours ago, zMeul said:

not intended!? you can have cards with a owner and a family member(s) as authorized user

Let me bring up an possibility that might bring some light up in you: You can authenticate with multiple fingerprints.

 

15 hours ago, JAKEBAB said:

What happens when your gf, family member, friend etc is going to the shop for you or paying for fuel while you fill up the car? Idk how i feel about this.

I'm not sure if this is limited to scandinavia, but our banking systems are so up to date, I can literally send X amount of money to anyone within 2 minutes from my phone. You really don't have to give out your credit card.

[pbx2]

15 hours ago, zMeul said:

not intended!? you can have cards with a owner and a family member(s) as authorized user

Likely that then the reader will hold multiple fingerprints

[Doobeedoo]

Seems fail and just going backwards. Should have PIN along too..

[GeekJump]

12 hours ago, dizmo said:

I think that's a little extreme. The bank would show them how to use it. It's not like they just get the card in the mail with a note showing how to use it. I bet they don't have to sign for anything. I haven't had to sign a credit card transaction receipt in years. Get with the times, old man.

 

OLD MAN??!?! 

 

I can't tell if your comment was sarcastic or not (since your from the UK) but that exactly how it works in the US lol. Debit and credit cards were always mailed to me and usually have no other info included but the contract stuff (interest rates, fees, etc.). I never had to sign anything either when I lived overseas but I always have to sign (CC) or put my pin in (DC) here. When chips were first introduced it was a hot mess - still is sometimes.

[dizmo]

2 minutes ago, GeekJump said:

OLD MAN??!?! 

 

I can't tell if your comment was sarcastic or not (since your from the UK) but that exactly how it works in the US lol. Debit and credit cards were always mailed to me and usually have no other info included but the contract stuff (interest rates, fees, etc.). I never had to sign anything either when I lived overseas but I always have to sign (CC) or put my pin in (DC) here. When chips were first introduced it was a hot mess - still is sometimes.

I'm not from the UK.

It works like that now because you don't need to register a fingerprint. You have to go into the bank to register it, so they'll explain how to use it at the same time. I would have thought that was obvious

Chips are just simply better. Fraud rates dropped drastically after introduction. The small hassle that goes with it is hardly anything to cry over, and naturally like everything there's a learning curve for those that are less technologically inclined.

[GeekJump]

2 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I'm not from the UK.

It works like that now because you don't need to register a fingerprint. You have to go into the bank to register it, so they'll explain how to use it at the same time. I would have thought that was obvious

Chips are just simply better. Fraud rates dropped drastically after introduction. The small hassle that goes with it is hardly anything to cry over, and naturally like everything there's a learning curve for those that are less technologically inclined.

I forgot there was an Edmonton in Canada . How can I forget the land Bioware lives.

 

You might not have to go to the bank tho. I use my fingerprints now to get into my bank and credit card accounts, maybe all we need is a phone with an "approved" sensor to do the job. I haven't stepped foot inside a bank in more than 5 years I'm not breaking that streak for a finger print!

I mentioned this in another reply - I understand the security part but we need to improve the card readers and other parts of the system to streamline it. There are still stores that use old readers that are just slow, others where -because people are rough with them- the readers are not working, or some other issue that makes me wish I can just swipe again. Then of course the people that, despite having chipped cards for years, still stare at the machine for a couple minutes before asking for help lol

[Jito463]

10 hours ago, Swatson said:

As for chip, I'm sorry that muricans/old people are too slow to learn how to put the chip side in

That was a dumb statement.

 

For the record, chips are not foolproof, and I'm not even just referring to the ability to scan/copy them.  I'm referring to their usage.  I work for a small computer store, and chip cards have been a headache ever since we got the new card reader in.

 

For the cards that work, it runs quite fast.  3 seconds and it's done.  However, we have a few cards that just will not work at all.  The chip part will simply cancel the transaction.  Not failed, just cancelled.  And because it has a chip, it will not permit us to swipe the strip on the back.  Which means we have to manually input the card in, which decreases security (eliminating the point of the chip) and thoroughly wastes our time.

 

If card companies can't get their act together and make chip cards that work, then they shouldn't even bother with the technology at all.  I'm not looking forward to my bank pushing it off on me later this year.

[Jito463]

2 hours ago, Tomsen said:

Let me bring up an possibility that might bring some light up in you: You can authenticate with multiple fingerprints.

 

2 hours ago, pbx2 said:

Likely that then the reader will hold multiple fingerprints

The linked article already said that, while you can have up to two fingerprints on the card, they must be from the same person.

[Sauron]

That's a stupid idea, fingerprints can be faked and you don't get to change them like you would with a pin or password. Once your prints are out, you're screwed.

 

And all this for what? Because we're too lazy to type 5 numbers?

[handymanshandle]

18 hours ago, GeekJump said:

No..no...NO!

 

Didn't we learn from switching to chips? Most people are stupid! I don't want to wait at check out again while someone is fumbling with their fingerprint secure card at the register. NOT AGAIN!  Plus this time the cashier can't take the card and show them how to do it because they need their fingerprint. And, besides the fact I don't think this card will be as thin as current cards, I bet people would still need to sign or something. I remember when chips were introduced and they talked about not needing to sign or put your pin in anymore...the chip takes 2x longer than the old fashion swiping. Security be damned!

 

Then if the sensor gets dirty...more wasted time.

This... I like my EMV card but it seems a lot of people especially wells fargo customers have issues with their EMV cards.

17 hours ago, Orangeator said:

Android and Apple Pay still seem WAAAYYYYYY more secure to me vs using cards.

Secure and faster.

[dizmo]

58 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

That was a dumb statement.

-snip-

They're not foolproof, however they're extremely effective. To deny that it's more beneficial than not is simply asinine.

A small shop like yours might be able to enter it manually, but most establishments simply can't. It's blocked.

Sounds more like an issue with the card itself than the technology. I've never had that issue before. Customers forgetting their PIN, sure, but that comes down to user error, not technological error.

2 hours ago, GeekJump said:

I forgot there was an Edmonton in Canada . How can I forget the land Bioware lives.

 

You might not have to go to the bank tho. I use my fingerprints now to get into my bank and credit card accounts, maybe all we need is a phone with an "approved" sensor to do the job. I haven't stepped foot inside a bank in more than 5 years I'm not breaking that streak for a finger print!

I mentioned this in another reply - I understand the security part but we need to improve the card readers and other parts of the system to streamline it. There are still stores that use old readers that are just slow, others where -because people are rough with them- the readers are not working, or some other issue that makes me wish I can just swipe again. Then of course the people that, despite having chipped cards for years, still stare at the machine for a couple minutes before asking for help lol

There's an Edmonton in the UK? Interesting. I bet it's nicer than the Edmonton in Canada. We're getting snow again today.

Yesterday it was warm enough to walk to the shops without a jacket. *Sigh*

 

You would, as per the article...

Quote

Setting up one of these cards won’t be as simple as using an app. Assuming your financial institution decides to use the system, you’ll need to visit an enrollment center to have your fingerprints scanned.

Since the fingerprint is stored on the card I imagine they have to load it for you.

I agree it's not the most secure thing, but everything has to start somewhere.

 

The costs for chip readers are actually quite high. The store has to pay per terminal, and it's an ongoing fee. Haha, my buddies old man has never owned a card in his life, and even he's managed to master it in a week. He's 66ish, and can barely hear. Willful ignorance is no excuse

[Jito463]

2 hours ago, dizmo said:

Sounds more like an issue with the card itself than the technology. I've never had that issue before. Customers forgetting their PIN, sure, but that comes down to user error, not technological error.

Except it's not just one card.  All cards from Bank of the West are affected, as well as some of the corporate cards from Wells Fargo, along with one or two other cards from financial institutions I've never heard of.  It's definitely something in the technology.  Whether it's the bank's implementation of it or some issue with communication, the problem is persistent and ongoing.