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User-made patch allows for Windows 7 and 8.1 users to install updates on Kaby Lake and Ryzen

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1 hour ago, Dabombinable said:

Windows 8/8.1 along with 10 have a well known bug that prevents DX9 games from using more than 4GB of RAM and vRAM. A bug that MS is fully aware of but refuses to fix.

 

No one cares about programs running like sh¡t in your computer, your hardware is so old. Who cares that it still works, upgrade! No one cares about your OS "not working" with your upgraded hardware, it's X years old, upgrade! No one cares about your DX9 games not running in your upgraded hardware with upgraded OS, DX9 is ancient, buy new games! No one cares about your new games running like sh¡t...

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59 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

 

No one cares about programs running like sh¡t in your computer, your hardware is so old. Who cares that it still works, upgrade! No one cares about your OS "not working" with your upgraded hardware, it's X years old, upgrade! No one cares about your DX9 games not running in your upgraded hardware with upgraded OS, DX9 is ancient, buy new games! No one cares about your new games running like sh¡t...

If your being serious, piss off. This is only the small, digital only part of my games library and why should I have to deal with a known and acknowledged bug that can and has adversely affected the way the majority of them run:
temp.thumb.png.d7c4b85020a96a725f2243295933f4e4.png

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/games_windows_10/eta-on-windows-8-10-dx9-memory-allocation-issues/94f56a72-a0cf-4169-a8b3-de753182175e
https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/1263324/gpu-memory-allocation-limit-on-directx9-windows-8
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/863242/geforce-drivers/-request-remove-4gb-limit-of-vram-for-dx9-games/1/

Its been worked on for over 2 years this bug...and its still not resolved.

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9 hours ago, Droidbot said:

In the form of chipset/north-southbridge, yes. But that's not PCH, just chipset. 

Older Intel archs used north-southbridge, where PCH rolled that into one chip. Intel keeps moving the clock and integral components around. 

 

Even at this point they're phasing out PCH in favour of making the entire chip do everything, in sort of an SoC type fashion. Stuff like voltage reg, etc isn't on the chip and instead on a seperate part of the board, but you get the point. 

 

yeah I know, but vista was delayed, scrapped, smashed around, belted, etc. whereas microsoft have pushed out a consumer OS for every 3 years since 2010

 

The PCH that you appear to think is a major issue the OS would have a problem with, which would be fixed with drivers you should be running anyway, is from 2009 onwards which is perfectly in the Windows 7 timeline. 

 

Vista was the first modern kernel so of course it was delayed a fuckton to make it work correctly. In fact, the Vista kernel is basically the same thing that 10 has but with modifications. Vista was a revolutionary OS.

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3 minutes ago, Hunter259 said:

The PCH that you appear to think is a major issue the OS would have a problem with, which would be fixed with drivers you should be running anyway, is from 2009 onwards which is perfectly in the Windows 7 timeline. 

 

Vista was the first modern kernel so of course it was delayed a fuckton to make it work correctly. In fact, the Vista kernel is basically the same thing that 10 has but with modifications. Vista was a revolutionary OS.

Vista was ahead of its time, yes. It added a lot, but at release it was a shitshow on mid-end hardware of that time. It was my second Windows OS, first being XP, and after a while my Vista install broke in such a way that I couldn't use it - explorer would keep crashing. 

But under the hood it had a modern kernel, modern services, modern look (I still like the original Vista look more than the 7 look), etc. 

 

But the PCH has changed since 2009.. 7 doesn't even have support for USB 3 out of the box for fucks sakes. And that was a feature that came out with the 5-series PCH, which was the first one released. We've switched from PCI-E 2.0 to 3.0, added features like M.2, Thunderbolt, USBC, etc. 

If you've ever tried to install 7 on a machine with a Skylake laptop PCH it is a bitch to do. There is no XHCI driver, there is no TB3 driver, there is no USBC driver, there isn't even a chipset driver to begin with for 7. And trying to install drivers available for 8.1/10 results in instability. These drivers exist for 8/.1 however.. 

idk

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8 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

Vista was ahead of its time, yes. It added a lot, but at release it was a shitshow on mid-end hardware of that time. It was my second Windows OS, first being XP, and after a while my Vista install broke in such a way that I couldn't use it - explorer would keep crashing. 

But under the hood it had a modern kernel, modern services, modern look (I still like the original Vista look more than the 7 look), etc. 

 

But the PCH has changed since 2009.. 7 doesn't even have support for USB 3 out of the box for fucks sakes. And that was a feature that came out with the 5-series PCH, which was the first one released. We've switched from PCI-E 2.0 to 3.0, added features like M.2, Thunderbolt, USBC, etc. 

If you've ever tried to install 7 on a machine with a Skylake laptop PCH it is a bitch to do. There is no XHCI driver, there is no TB3 driver, there is no USBC driver, there isn't even a chipset driver to begin with for 7. And trying to install drivers available for 8.1/10 results in instability. These drivers exist for 8/.1 however.. 

Eh, it's 'easy' enough to patch a Win7 ISO with the drivers for Skylake if you're willing to be patient. I had to do that for my dad's i7-6700 desktop build to be ran, until Linux had a kernel capable of working with only minor hiccups on it for his particular favourite distro (Zorin-OS, Debian-through-Buntu lineage).


So far in my life since Win 3.11 (and I'm only 29 keep in mind), there have only been 3 "desktop/home" versions of Windows I have skipped using on my system for one reason  or another - ME (was using 98/SE until got hands on 2000 then XP Pro), Vista (ran XP Pro or Linux until Win7RC on my Optiplex 745, before a totally new system in 2011 with fresh Win7Pro) & 8/8.1 (kept on 7 until Monsuta which I went with 10 as wasn't gonna bugger patching 7Pro/Ulti to work on X99/5820K).

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Just now, Technous285 said:

Eh, it's 'easy' enough to patch a Win7 ISO with the drivers for Skylake if you're willing to be patient. I had to do that for my dad's i7-6700 desktop build to be ran, until Linux had a kernel capable of working with only minor hiccups on it for his particular favourite distro (Zorin-OS, Debian-through-Buntu lineage).


So far in my life since Win 3.11 (and I'm only 29 keep in mind), there have only been 3 "desktop/home" versions of Windows I have skipped using on my system for one reason  or another - ME (was using 98/SE until got hands on 2000 then XP Pro), Vista (ran XP Pro or Linux until Win7RC on my Optiplex 745, before a totally new system in 2011 with fresh Win7Pro) & 8/8.1 (kept on 7 until Monsuta which I went with 10 as wasn't gonna bugger patching 7Pro/Ulti to work on X99/5820K).

That's the Skylake desktop PCH. The desktop one can be patched, but on mobile they have started moving some of the PCH functions to the CPU, like an SoC arrangement. Which seriously fucks with Windows 7, so most OEMs preferred to not release drivers. Skylake mobile is radically different under the hood compared to Haswell mobile, and more like Broadwell-U than anything else Intel has released. If it fucks with Linux, which is one of the most '''reliable''' operating systems in most people's opinion, then it definitely fucks with Win10. 

 

I went XP > Vista > XP > 7 > 8 Insider > 7 > 10 Insider > 10 Release. 

 

idk

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29 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

But the PCH has changed since 2009.. 7 doesn't even have support for USB 3 out of the box for f***** sakes. And that was a feature that came out with the 5-series PCH, which was the first one released. We've switched from PCI-E 2.0 to 3.0, added features like M.2, Thunderbolt, USBC, etc.

If you've ever tried to install 7 on a machine with a Skylake laptop PCH it is a b**** to do. There is no XHCI driver, there is no TB3 driver, there is no USBC driver, there isn't even a chipset driver to begin with for 7. And trying to install drivers available for 8.1/10 results in instability. These drivers exist for 8/.1 however.. 

So, your argument is that 7 is an outdated and irrelevant OS, because manufacturers can't be bothered to make drivers for it?  That's circular logic.  Ryzen is a brand new architecture, and it has Windows 7 drivers available for it.  The lack of 7-compatible chipset drivers for Intel hardware doesn't mean the OS is outdated, it just means Intel is lazy.

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30 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

If you've ever tried to install 7 on a machine with a Skylake laptop PCH it is a b**** to do. There is no XHCI driver, there is no TB3 driver, there is no USBC driver, there isn't even a chipset driver to begin with for 7. And trying to install drivers available for 8.1/10 results in instability. These drivers exist for 8/.1 however.. 

You know what, I'll take that challenge.  We have several SL and KL based laptops at work.  I'm going to take one, image the current install, and do a clean install of 7 on it just for testing purposes.

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5 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

You know what, I'll take that challenge.  We have several SL and KL based laptops at work.  I'm going to take one, image the current install, and do a clean install of 7 on it just for testing purposes.

It should be the same situation as ME on my main desktop-working nearly flawlessly (it'd be flawless if there were compatible drivers).

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This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
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Just now, Jito463 said:

You know what, I'll take that challenge.  We have several SL and KL based laptops at work.  I'm going to take one, image the current install, and do a clean install of 7 on it just for testing purposes.

Hardware? This was like what, 9-10 months ago, and we just gave up and installed 8.1 instead.

There isn't USB2 on Skylake at all, so you need to boot and load USB3 drivers, if you can find some. There's loads floating around the internet and nothing worked on this LG machine I had. 

Maybe it's changed. 

I don't know. 

5 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

So, your argument is that 7 is an outdated and irrelevant OS, because manufacturers can't be bothered to make drivers for it?  That's circular logic.  Ryzen is a brand new architecture, and it has Windows 7 drivers available for it.  The lack of 7-compatible chipset drivers for Intel hardware doesn't mean the OS is outdated, it just means Intel is lazy.

A select sliver of business laptops officially support 7. That is due to businesses requiring 7 for various purposes. However, it's only on certain hardware configs, and those configs have SATA drives, as well as custom drivers by the OEMs themselves to get it to boot. While I do agree that Intel is partially to blame here, it's also 7 - it's not built for these machines in mind.

Intel released desktop drivers, but no laptop drivers. Wouldn't there be a reason behind that?

AMD has released Win7 chipset drivers iirc, but it's covered by the 'No Updates For You!' block. (apparently; https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/matthew-wilson/microsofts-no-update-policy-in-effect-for-ryzen-and-kaby-lake-systems-on-windows-78-1/)

 

according to MS

Quote

Compared to Windows 7 PC’s, Skylake when combined with Windows 10, enables up to 30x better graphics and 3x the battery life – with the unmatched security of Credential Guard utilizing silicon supported virtualization.

Quote

At the same time, we know many of these customers continue to rely on Windows 7 for its well understood reliability and compatibility. Windows 7 was designed nearly 10 years ago before any x86/x64 SOCs existed. For Windows 7 to run on any modern silicon, device drivers and firmware need to emulate Windows 7’s expectations for interrupt processing, bus support, and power states- which is challenging for WiFi, graphics, security, and more. As partners make customizations to legacy device drivers, services, and firmware settings, customers are likely to see regressions with Windows 7 ongoing servicing.

 

idk

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7 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

Not sure what you want me to do with this article.

The registry edits and such outlined in this article does not have any effect. They might have had at one point, but since a few updates back they only work in enterprise builds of Windows. The settings still exist in the Pro version, but they don't do anything. Setting it to 0 is the same as setting it to 1.

It's just another way Microsoft tries to fool users into thinking they have disabled telemetry.

 

 

7 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

Again, the settings this article recommends no longer works. Microsoft changed it so that the policies and keys are still there in the Pro version, but they don't do anything.

 

But that article also mentions disabling services like connected user experiences and telemtry and dmwappushsvc. Could you explain to me what these services do so that I won't end up with other problems if I disable them? Like I said before, I don't like this "I'll just disable everything and hope it goes away" approach because it will inevitably come back and bite you in the ass, and I don't want the Microsoft Defense Force to get the satisfaction of going "should have listened to Microsoft, they know best. I hope remove even more control from users now".

 

 

Also, this will not disable all the tracking in Windows 10. For example I did not see any mention of disabling the function which makes search call home to Bing every time you search something (even if you have online search disabled).

 

 

7 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

Again, what does this tool do? I don't know what this tool does, so I can not be sure that it won't mess with something I actually want.

Just running programs which makes changes to your OS, without fully understanding what changes are being made, is a very bad idea.

Also, it seems like Spybot needs to run in the background. A lot of users have said that it used to have a bug where it would start eating up 20% of their processor usage randomly.

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4 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

The registry edits and such outlined in this article does not have any effect. They might have had at one point, but since a few updates back they only work in enterprise builds of Windows. The settings still exist in the Pro version, but they don't do anything. Setting it to 0 is the same as setting it to 1.

It seems as though if you configured it before the update that changed it, it'll still apply. I applied the group policy to disable automatic updates, notifying me of updates instead, and even with the CU it's still applied.

 

Of course, though, that might not be true for every registry key and group policy, but remember I'm running Windows 10 Pro and not Enterprise.

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2 minutes ago, Daring said:

It seems as though if you configured it before the update that changed it, it'll still apply. I applied the group policy to disable automatic updates, notifying me of updates instead, and even with the CU it's still applied.

 

Of course, though, that might not be true for every registry key and group policy, but remember I'm running Windows 10 Pro and not Enterprise.

The update GPO still works. The telemetry one does not.

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Just now, LAwLz said:

The update GPO still works. The telemetry one does not.

Ah, wasn't aware of that.

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8 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

If your being serious

Err... obviously not? 

(*you're :P

 

I was illustrating the vicious circle of never fixing anything and just telling people to escape forward and consume more. 

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6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Again, what does this tool do? I don't know what this tool does, so I can not be sure that it won't mess with something I actually want.

Just running programs which makes changes to your OS, without fully understanding what changes are being made, is a very bad idea.

Also, it seems like Spybot needs to run in the background. A lot of users have said that it used to have a bug where it would start eating up 20% of their processor usage randomly.

Spybot Anti-Beacon lets you explicitly choose what does and does not get applied.  I don't know how you can say that you're confused about what it does.

 

Also, it most definitely does not need to run in the background.  You apply the changes, and then it's not needed again until a major build update.  I think you're referring to Spybot Search & Destroy, which is their anti-spyware/malware utility.  Anti-Beacon is a completely different utility.

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8 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Spybot Anti-Beacon lets you explicitly choose what does and does not get applied.  I don't know how you can say that you're confused about what it does.

 

Also, it most definitely does not need to run in the background.  You apply the changes, and then it's not needed again until a major build update.  I think you're referring to Spybot Search & Destroy, which is their anti-spyware/malware utility.  Anti-Beacon is a completely different utility.

I have tried it, after it was recommended to me here. Result? Still get telemetry process(es) in task manager. That was the main reason I tried the program. 

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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39 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Spybot Anti-Beacon lets you explicitly choose what does and does not get applied.  I don't know how you can say that you're confused about what it does.

I am confused about what it does because it does not seem to give me any details. It appears to me like it's just a program with a button which says it blocks things. How does it block things? For example when it says it disables telemetry it also seems like it adds a bunch of entries to the host file for skype (which in the past has broken Skype group calls according to people on their forums).

 

I want to know how it accomplishes the things it claims to do because I want to avoid situations where things stop working.

Like I said before, if you don't know what a program does (as in, how it does it, not what it claims the result is) then you probably should not run it. Especially not if it's some closed source program where you have no insight into it.

 

By the way, since it seems like Spybot uses the host file to block a lot of the telemetry, it's not blocking as much as it claims to do. Microsoft has explicitly made it so that the host file is ignored for certain addresses. They even hyped it up as a "security feature".

That's another reason why I want to know HOW programs block things. Because a lot of them don't actually do what they claim they do.

 

39 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Also, it most definitely does not need to run in the background.  You apply the changes, and then it's not needed again until a major build update.  I think you're referring to Spybot Search & Destroy, which is their anti-spyware/malware utility.  Anti-Beacon is a completely different utility.

No I was looking at anti-beacon. It seems like there are two versions of it.

One that you install, and one that you do not. Not sure what the differences are though.

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20 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

Telemetry can be disable and stop thinking you're so damn important that Microsoft is dying of interest to see what you do on your desktop :P

Well you are that important since they see fit to collect the data in the first place :P

Spoiler

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Just now, FratStar said:

Well you are that important since they see fit to collect the data in the first place :P

I honestly don't mind all that much... it isn't like it changes anything in my life, in today's world "privacy" is a joke any ways... but hey Spybot-Antibeacon is here for people with heavy conscious about Microsoft knowing about your porn xD

 

Though in all reality, what's the worse thing that can happen any ways? they sell data for ad companies? I use ad blockers everywhere any ways.

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2 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

*snip*

Honestly, I don't think data collection is inherently bad either. However I look at it like this. They are literally double dipping. You are paying for an OS License (Well they did do the "free" upgrade) and then they are collecting your data and selling it too. Microsoft claims they aren't collecting any PII yet I've heard that they are collecting your MAC address which can easily be traced back to a specific user.

 

In most scenarios nothing will ever come from them collecting your data until it falls into the wrong hands next you're dealing with identity theft, black mail (if you're in a privileged position) etc. Unlikely I know but it can happen and the more your data gets shopped around the more likely it can fall into the wrong hands and you can't expect every company to have proper security standards.

 

I try my best to give as little data as possible. Not because of some conspiracy theory, but because I know how little these corporations actually put into information security plus I really don't need a bunch of businesses in my personal life. It's like how people cry for less government in their life but they are okay with businesses prying into our lives in the same way, nah not me.

Spoiler

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10 hours ago, Droidbot said:

Vista was ahead of its time, yes. It added a lot, but at release it was a shitshow on mid-end hardware of that time. It was my second Windows OS, first being XP, and after a while my Vista install broke in such a way that I couldn't use it - explorer would keep crashing. 

But under the hood it had a modern kernel, modern services, modern look (I still like the original Vista look more than the 7 look), etc. 

 

But the PCH has changed since 2009.. 7 doesn't even have support for USB 3 out of the box for fucks sakes. And that was a feature that came out with the 5-series PCH, which was the first one released. We've switched from PCI-E 2.0 to 3.0, added features like M.2, Thunderbolt, USBC, etc. 

If you've ever tried to install 7 on a machine with a Skylake laptop PCH it is a bitch to do. There is no XHCI driver, there is no TB3 driver, there is no USBC driver, there isn't even a chipset driver to begin with for 7. And trying to install drivers available for 8.1/10 results in instability. These drivers exist for 8/.1 however.. 

Yeah no. USB 3 is a 7 series thing which is 2012. Everything before it was a manufacturer specific thing. And duh it doesn't have any brand new drivers in its default stack. That's why we have install discs with the drivers you need slipstreamed in whether it's a laptop or a desktop. 

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Proxmox Server - i7 8700k @ 4.5Ghz - 32GB EVGA 3000 CL15 OC'd to 3200 - Asus Strix Z370-E Gaming - Oracle F80 800GB Enterprise SSD, LSI SAS running 3 4TB and 2 6TB (Both Raid Z0), Samsung 840Pro 120GB - Phanteks Enthoo Pro

 

Super Server - i9 7980Xe @ 4.5GHz - 64GB 3200MHz Cl16 - Asrock X299 Professional - Nvidia Telsa K20 -Sandisk 512GB Enterprise SATA SSD, 128GB Seagate SATA SSD, 1.5TB WD Green (Over 9 years of power on time) - Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2

 

Laptop - 2019 Macbook Pro 16" - i7 - 16GB - 512GB - 5500M 8GB - Thermal Pads and Graphite Tape modded

 

Smart Phones - iPhone X - 64GB, AT&T, iOS 13.3 iPhone 6 : 16gb, AT&T, iOS 12 iPhone 4 : 16gb, AT&T Go Phone, iOS 7.1.1 Jailbroken. iPhone 3G : 8gb, AT&T Go Phone, iOS 4.2.1 Jailbroken.

 

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6 minutes ago, Hunter259 said:

Yeah no. USB 3 is a 7 series thing which is 2012. Everything before it was a manufacturer specific thing. And duh it doesn't have any brand new drivers in its default stack. That's why we have install discs with the drivers you need slipstreamed in whether it's a laptop or a desktop. 

Shit, yeah - remembered. I've got a 5-series board with USB3 through a NEC card on the board, and with USB3 and SATA3 it's surprisingly modern.

 

All well and good talking about drivers to slipstream when there isn't always drivers to slipstream

idk

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38 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

I honestly don't mind all that much... it isn't like it changes anything in my life, in today's world "privacy" is a joke any ways... but hey Spybot-Antibeacon is here for people with heavy conscious about Microsoft knowing about your porn xD

 

Though in all reality, what's the worse thing that can happen any ways? they sell data for ad companies? I use ad blockers everywhere any ways.

Privacy is a fucking joke in the 21st century. There is no such thing as a free lunch in the modern world. If you're not paying for it, your data is. 

 

Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, etc all collect data on you to a nearly creepy degree (did you know your browser history is backed up to the google account you're signed into?). 

 

And they integrated spying into 7, 8, and 8.1 anyway. Does the average user really care? No, not really. Should they care? No, not really. 

 

Oh wow, Windows collects data on the applications I use. Big fucking deal. Won't stop me from using those applications. 

 

idk

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