RX 580 and 570 Review

[Daniel644]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Well, mobile is a big driving force, and ideally you want to get mobile and desktop on the same design. So power consumption does end up being critical. But, the fact that Polaris is more efficient than Hawaii isn't the big takeaway -- it's that Polaris is much smaller and if scaled to Hawaii sizes  and would be much more powerful.

 

 And the same can be said for the 780 -> 970 -> 1060. There has been the same "stagnant" performance there too.

 

Polaris was NEVER meant to capture/recapture the high end. It is and always has been targeted at mid-range. 

Difference is Nvidia didn't STOP with the 1060, they GAVE that option to budget minded people, while offering RAW PERFORMANCE cards to those with the budget for them, plus they've had BETTER performing cards even in the last generation (and probably the one before that), it's pure laziness on AMD to not come out swinging, this is the same thing they pulled with Ryzen, leaving people on the same crappy level of performance for half a decade instead of making regular slight improvements like Intel did.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

Darn I keep forgetting about mobile gaming, a shame really maybe if Desktops weren't chained to the mobile solutions we could actually see an even faster pace on performance increase from these hardwares.

I'm sure we would, but at the end of the day, the mobile market is far larger than the desktop one. (The server market is quite large though and is what drives HEDT).

[Daniel644]

3 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Darn I keep forgetting about mobile gaming, a shame really maybe if Desktops weren't chained to the mobile solutions we could actually see an even faster pace on performance increase from these hardwares.

Thats not even a Valid argument as there are mobile 1080's out there, no reason AMD couldn't have something better.

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, fpo said:

That's a bummer.. This is only my 3rd GPU. I had one in a desktop from years ago that my dad bought so I could play DOW, then I got a 960 used and replaced it about a month later with my 390.

 

There's SOME (as I hinted at) but it's not as significant as I'd hope.

That's just the way things are. High end is the mid end of the next generation and the cycle repeats. Right now, AMD hasn't released any high end cards, so there high end cards are now the mid-end cards and there would be high-end cards don't exist. 

 

There has been a LOT of improvement since 2009. A 290x launched in Q3 2013. In 2009 you had the HD 5000 series, where the HD5970 is about on par with an R7 250.

 

7 minutes ago, Daniel644 said:

Difference is Nvidia didn't STOP with the 1060, they GAVE that option to budget minded people, while offering RAW PERFORMANCE cards to those with the budget for them, plus they've had BETTER performing cards even in the last generation (and probably the one before that), it's pure laziness on AMD to not come out swinging, this is the same thing they pulled with Ryzen, leaving people on the same crappy level of performance for half a decade instead of making regular slight improvements like Intel did.

Yes, AMD chose not to spend money towards high end Polaris -- presumably realizing their money was better spent elsewhere. That doesn't change the fact that Polaris is still a step up from previous architectures -- both in terms of price and performance. 

[79wjd]

7 minutes ago, Daniel644 said:

Thats not even a Valid argument as there are mobile 1080's out there, no reason AMD couldn't have something better.

Mobile 1080s that get about a half hour of battery before dying and thst thermal throttle without having an A/C system in your laptop. There isn't a lot of money in high end mobile gaming, thus it gets little attention. 

[iamdarkyoshi]

Whats this? A badass thumbnail?

[Streetguru]

1 hour ago, nicklmg said:

 

@LinusSebastian

Yall gotta fix your GTAV results

 

the RX 580 is shown at the top of the graph with 126 fps, that seems like a huge mistake

5:52

[WMGroomAK]

1 hour ago, nicklmg said:

No, Vega is not here yet... but we do have some pretty slick new Polaris cards from AMD. Should you pick one up?

So a quick question...  Are the performance graphs posted anywhere for viewing besides the video or is there anyway to look at them aside from pausing the video?  This is kind of an issue I've had with multiple reviews on different channels where these graphs are flashed on the screen for a couple of seconds so you then have to scrub back in the video to view them in detail.

[Daniel644]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

Mobile 1080s that get about a half hour of battery before dying and thst thermal throttle without having an A/C system in your laptop. There isn't a lot of money in high end mobile gaming, thus it gets little attention. 

doesn't matter how long the battery lasts, Nvidia HAS IT, AMD DOESN'T, STOP being a FANBOY and open your eyes to see How AMD hasn't made any MEANINGFUL hardware improvements in half a decade, all they've done is make it smaller and cheaper, which while GOOD is NOT a Performance increase. But if you wanna talk performance, how about the R9 Fury X, that guy is WAY smaller then any 480 or 580 and out performs them, fact is AMD just hasn't come out with anything meaningful in years for the highend gamer.

[79wjd]

43 minutes ago, Daniel644 said:

doesn't matter how long the battery lasts, Nvidia HAS IT, AMD DOESN'T, STOP being a FANBOY and open your eyes to see How AMD hasn't made any MEANINGFUL hardware improvements in half a decade, all they've done is make it smaller and cheaper, which while GOOD is NOT a Performance increase. But if you wanna talk performance, how about the R9 Fury X, that guy is WAY smaller then any 480 or 580 and out performs them, fact is AMD just hasn't come out with anything meaningful in years for the highend gamer.

I must be some special fanboy, because no matter what thread I end up in, no matter who thread is for or against, I always end up getting labelled a fanboy. I'm sorry, but it's not possible for me to be a fanboy for Both Nvidia and AMD; or Intel and AMD; or Apple and everyone else; or Microsoft and everyone else. Just because I don't have the same deluded ideals you have doesn't make me a fanboy. 

 

Yes, Nvidia has a mobile 1080. They have more money to work with and are already producing high end for the server market, which they already have (relative to AMD) complete control over. 

 

AMD's hardware has advanced just as much as Nvidia's (if you wanted to argue that they advanced less since they need more power to get the same performance, then that is something else, and has a lot to do with architecture design and drivers). But at the end of the day, Polaris 10 was designed to compete with GP106, and that it does perfectly. Had AMD thought it was worth the cost to develop a Polaris 9 GPU, then we would see AMD competing on the high end as well. But they felt that it was economically a better decision to focus their efforts on Vega for the high end rather than waste resources on a larger Polaris die.

 

 

Oh and yeah....I'm the fanboy here. Okay. 

[Drak3]

3 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Kaby Lake overclocks like a monster though, so kinda worth it cause 5.3Ghz ain't happening on Skylake.

Hardly happening on Kabylake, unless you win the silicon lottery. The 7700K manages an average of +200MHz over Sky with high end air or water cooling. For most people, they're going to hit 5GHz and then that's it.

It takes Cascade cooling to drive the 7700K over 5GHz (average with Cascade coolers so far are 5.8GHz) with any assemblence of consistance, and under the same scenario, the 6700K hits 5.4GHz. Cascade cooling is extremely expensive, and like LN2, not exactly viable for long term OCs.

[MageTank]

5 hours ago, Streetguru said:

@LinusSebastian

Yall gotta fix your GTAV results

 

the RX 580 is shown at the top of the graph with 126 fps, that seems like a huge mistake

5:52

They probably accidentally swapped the names between the 1070 and 580. Either way, it would still be pretty impressive if it got 116fps in GTA5 at 1080p. Means people should see some good value out of those 120hz Freesync monitors with this GPU.

[Qub3d]

Its really interesting looking at these metrics. I could afford a GTX 1070, but the most demanding game I play these days is Overwatch, and at 1080p. 

 

How do you guys think a 580 would do at 1440p?

[Ezio Auditore]

"We find your lack of faith disturbing"

What is this slogan!!!!!!!

[Ezio Auditore]

@nicklmg

There is a typo in benchmark title.

Directx12 12 has been typed instead of directx 11

[The Ran]

Whilst performance hasn't improved a huge amount (at least compared to Nvidia) power draw, and in turn heat output, has. A 290X has a TDP of 250W according to AMD but in reality pulls 300-380W, where as the 580 is rated at 185W and actually pulls 230-250W. That's better performance, even if it isn't a lot better, for probably at least 100W less. In terms of actually powering it that's not really significant, overkill power supplies aren't all that expensive, but the difference in heat output is significant.

 

If I actually played games much anymore I'd be tempted to replace my two 290s for that reason, but unfortunately I fixed those by spending even more money on watercooling (so noise isn't much of a concern, my small room can still get pretty toasty though) and so I'd have to factor in the cost of two new waterblocks as well. That said if they brought out a card that could match the 1080 for performance I would prefer that as Crossfire doesn't always work and one card doesn't cut it at 4k, so I can see why some people are disappointed.

[othertomperson]

On 18/04/2017 at 6:50 PM, fpo said:

But my R9 390 is the same as a 290 which is the same as that 2009 card, and it performs like a 480 which performs about the same as a 580...

Why is a 2009 graphics card this good?!?!?!?!

Another way to look at it is "how shit were AMD's drivers that this absolute beast was being hobbled this much in 2013"? A third way of looking at it was "holy fuck, how awesome was that piece of hardware four years ago that it's still this good?"

 

All of these points are valid. Imagine a 2013 290X with 2017 driver quality. Would anyone have ever bothered with an original Titan?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, othertomperson said:

Another way to look at it is "how shit were AMD's drivers that this absolute beast was being hobbled this much in 2013"? A third way of looking at it was "holy fuck, how awesome was that piece of hardware four years ago that it's still this good?"

 

All of these points are valid. Imagine a 2013 290X with 2017 driver quality. Would anyone have ever bothered with an original Titan?

My point is I have that card, why would I care about a new version of what I have?

[othertomperson]

10 hours ago, fpo said:

My point is I have that card, why would I care about a new version of what I have?

I know, but the 290X comparison and the question of perceived lack of progress cones up often

[Guest]

5 hours ago, othertomperson said:

I know, but the 290X comparison and the question of perceived lack of progress cones up often

So then if many see a "lack of progress" it must be true to a greater extent than "we got 12 more fps in our NEW cards compared to last generation"

 

i.e. The 390 compared to the 480, and the 480 compared to the 580. All top of the line cards. 

[79wjd]

10 minutes ago, fpo said:

So then if many see a "lack of progress" it must be true to a greater extent than "we got 12 more fps in our NEW cards compared to last generation"

 

i.e. The 390 compared to the 480, and the 480 compared to the 580. All top of the line cards. 

No, it's just that people are idiots and are comparing a top end card to a mid-range card. There have been lots of improvements, AMD just hasn't put them towards a flagship card. AMD is still very competitive with Nvidia -- the difference now is that they haven't put out anything to compete with anything above a 1060, but that doesn't change the fact that lots of improvements have been made.

[DoctorWho1975]

And its not like AMD doesn't have Vega in the pipeline. 

[m2234323]

I just upgrade only becaser i got triick on lanch day to get a rx480 reference and it soudn like a jet engin and saw a great saile on a rx580 kill 2 bird with one stone