Why this Xeon is not for gaming?

[Denis_Twin]

Just now, huilun02 said:

Have you tried a fresh Windows install? Could be a software issue causing the stuttering

I will have to copy paste all this here so instead...

[Denis_Twin]

Just now, PineyCreek said:

I'm wondering if what you see is just lag/latency to the games servers or peer network.  It would be interesting to see if you had a graphically-intensive game playing offline.

like which one?

the graphics isnt an issue here, when alone I am butter smooth and by alone I mean not even npcs but yeah, witcher 3 runs well I suppose.

 

Check my components on my profile, you could check of something seems off to any of you.

btw I will be gone for a bit so I will not be able to reply for a few hours.

[PineyCreek]

Kind of think it's latency then if it's only online that you have issues.  Server response (game server) or your network connection could be to blame here.

[Megah3rtz]

17 minutes ago, TwinDenis said:

So... whats the problem then?

Some of the people here say they are the same, some say they are different.

It makes no sense.

Even if it's the same, its still outdated. 

[Denis_Twin]

4 hours ago, Megah3rtz said:

Even if it's the same, its still outdated. 

outdated or not, this was released when the games I played were already old and those games didn't play well at all (well=acceptable level overlooking the hard to see details).

I mean, yeah it might be outdated but world of warcraft is played for years and optimized for years as well, they have been keeping the 20-40 player raids for years which did not change in the last couple of years so... I dont think it should not be able to run it, on the contrary but then again the question remains to why it cannot, CPU development progress has been decreased compared to graphics cards the last years so the processors can do as much of course some with greater efficiency but game developers release their titles with a bigger audience in mind (to make more money) so they make it compatible with most gaming computers out there with some minor exceptions of course being graphical improvements since we get so much better graphics cards lately and in some cases for a budget price.

 

even so is the 900$+ upgrade worth it to go from the xeon in question to a 7700k setup? 

 

4 hours ago, PineyCreek said:

Kind of think it's latency then if it's only online that you have issues.  Server response (game server) or your network connection could be to blame here.

I mean, the connection is stable plenty, this would have been detected by the game's support (which in this case is blizzard). It happens in starcraft2 as well when I have more than 150+ unit resources taken meaning roughly 50+ low poly units on or off screen.

connection 50mbps download + 4 upload.

Then again other players from similar regions with similar connections do not experience it or so they claim (and yes, it is noticable to the point of greatly disturbing gameplay sometimes).

to answer your previous question, I isolated the issue and figured it has to do with loading assets in general, even in games like diablo 3 where your stats only are sent back and forth to the servers it causes the same kind of stutter-like or frame skipping as well (its not exactly stutter since its not caused by vsync or similar, been on the nvidia panels for a very long time), anyway the issue does happen in more rare occasions to offline games as well (rare because it only has to load less assets). So the key here is it happens in effects, fights or unit interactions (depending on the scene) and in cities on mmorpgs (heavily) or when loading an area (depending).

I however truly hope a 7700k can put cpu-bound games to their knees, if it does I will consider an upgrade although it is another quad core but thats of course the concern (my cpu=3.6ghz quad, new cpu=4.20ghz quad, ryzen=3.6ghz+ 4-6-8 core). 

Oh yeah, I also forgot to mention I stutter horribly on black desert online especially in heidel (thats the city Ive been most often anyway), anywhere near the city or around it I have my game feel like I am watching stop motion or something. Note this is a game that I fulfill their min-max requirements.

 

I hope all this information should prove valuable.

[H0R53]

I have a Xeon E3 1240, I like it a lot. It idles at about 45 degrees. I agree gaming isn't the best on it but I would always rather have a Xeon over a core i7. They're just better.

[Coaxialgamer]

Xeons are as good as any equivalent consumer chip with the same specs +ecc. 

 

At 3.6/3.8ghz, with 8 threads on the sandy bridge architecture, you're in the same ballpark as an i7 2600. That's probably why you're getting issues, not because of the xeon name. 

 

The notion that xeons "aren't for gaming" is born because most xeons are high core count, low clock SKU's. Because games aren't very threaded, they can be limited by the lower single core perf on those chips. 

[Denis_Twin]

5 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Xeons are as good as any equivalent consumer chip with the same specs +ecc. 

 

At 3.6/3.8ghz, with 8 threads on the sandy bridge architecture, you're in the same ballpark as an i7 2600. That's probably why you're getting issues, not because of the xeon name. 

 

The notion that xeons "aren't for gaming" is born because most xeons are high core count, low clock SKU's. Because games aren't very threaded, they can be limited by the lower single core perf on those chips. 

thanks for the clarification, so taking a game like heroes of the storm into account with the specific xeon brand I am using, could you know if it should run or not?

I just want to have a brief idea as to where I should invest next and of course have more knowledge over the subject. I confirm it is some kind of unit/s and Ai related issue as well as special effects related issue that affect fps once loading or loaded.

Also what is so bad about the i7 2600 ? I thougt core speed was what we were looking for, I think it has plenty.

 

Again, thanks

[Coaxialgamer]

Just now, TwinDenis said:

thanks for the clarification, so taking a game like heroes of the storm into account with the specific xeon brand I am using, could you know if it should run or not?

I just want to have a brief idea as to where I should invest next and of course have more knowledge over the subject. I confirm it is some kind of unit/s and Ai related issue as well as special effects related issue that affect fps once loading or loaded.

Again, thanks

It will run, just as the game will run on a 2600. If you are getting a new platform, definitely go for kaby lake or ryzen. Gtx 980 is still very capable, but you'll start to be limited by that cpu fairly soon. 

 

Your best bet is to load msi afterburner and monitor the cpu usage in game. 

[Denis_Twin]

6 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

It will run, just as the game will run on a 2600. If you are getting a new platform, definitely go for kaby lake or ryzen. Gtx 980 is still very capable, but you'll start to be limited by that cpu fairly soon. 

 

Your best bet is to load msi afterburner and monitor the cpu usage in game. 

 here you go, I had it recently taken, at the first part you will see the gpu usage lower which indicates the lowest graphical settings while on the highest gpu usage on the graphs it indicates me changing the settings to the absolute max without DSR.

The game in question is heroes of the storm, a free online m.o.b.a. game.

 

By the way the i7 2600 has same scores or similar to 6700k or close to.

 

ps: apparently the picture is cut but you get the picture.

[scottyseng]

5 hours ago, TwinDenis said:

-snip-

Hmm, that's strange, it looks pretty normal to me, no sudden jumps on GPU usage (Though it's low at 20-24%...then again, the game isn't that hard to run).

 

Curious, does vsync fix the issue? Yeah, the CPU should be fine in my opinion (the 2600 is not that bad at all).

 

I don't get how sandy bridge being old got dragged into this....my 2700K at 4.9 GHz is plenty happy still.

 

Yeah, sadly I would say to run some offline game as well, but you don't have one.

 

Did it used to run smooth before? Or was it always like this as soon as you built the PC?

[Denis_Twin]

1 hour ago, scottyseng said:

Hmm, that's strange, it looks pretty normal to me, no sudden jumps on GPU usage (Though it's low at 20-24%...then again, the game isn't that hard to run).

 

Curious, does vsync fix the issue? Yeah, the CPU should be fine in my opinion (the 2600 is not that bad at all).

 

I don't get how sandy bridge being old got dragged into this....my 2700K at 4.9 GHz is plenty happy still.

 

Yeah, sadly I would say to run some offline game as well, but you don't have one.

 

Did it used to run smooth before? Or was it always like this as soon as you built the PC?

control settings and NCP settings do not affect it that much, in some games there is stutter so I act accordingly but for the most part they dont get affected.

its been like this forever and I do not understand why, I usually play online games or almost always otherwise I would have gotten a pretty much cheaper solution such as ps4 or something similar for the couch.

The system itself is a dell precision t3600 workstation although I upgraded it over the years with gpu and ram, Dell even replaced the whole thing once I told them something was not normal but they suggested this system is not meant for gaming so they would not support me further.

So in the end neither the manufacturer nor the game support can do anything about it. In terms of optimization some players claim the games run smooth for them and some that they also have problems but lets be real... running those games in an old laptop is never a good idea as for their case.

I got an expensive system so I expected it to run properly.

 

In raw power I know the specs are more than enough, the thing is whats up.

Lets assume it is an online games problem for a minute, what should I do if it was?

Network-wise everything is fine, I changed 2 ISPs so far anyway so.... yeah....

Also, I lag (A LOT) in tera especially in cities same with black desert.

I do have the problem in diablo 3 as well but not in path of exile nor overwatch (last ones are online as well) in league of legends I have sometimes problems as well (depending on whats going on but mostly it doesnt have any issues).

Can you benchmark the games yourself as well to compare? (on 3.6ghz).

The fps counter is fine by the way as said before, it just feels like 20-30ish or less fps, too choppy.

[othertomperson]

It's a 4 core Sandy Bridge with Hyperthreading. Think of it being an i7 2600, they're basically the same thing.

[Darkness1234]

17 hours ago, TwinDenis said:

 

It is most definately capable for gaming. Theoretically according to the specs it can be used for gaming however because they are suited to servers they are built with a different bus configuration (the bus is the information transport line that brings data throughout the entire cpu) but other than that it is an old cpu now it uses 32nm transistors. But a 4 core running up to a max of 3.8GHz per core that is suitable for gaming. But its architecture and order of structure is still different. An example is that the ram inputs and outputs are build differently because the same i7 core could probably only take 32gb of ram while this core can take 375gb ram.

[Denis_Twin]

4 hours ago, Darkness1234 said:

It is most definately capable for gaming. Theoretically according to the specs it can be used for gaming however because they are suited to servers they are built with a different bus configuration (the bus is the information transport line that brings data throughout the entire cpu) but other than that it is an old cpu now it uses 32nm transistors. But a 4 core running up to a max of 3.8GHz per core that is suitable for gaming. But its architecture and order of structure is still different. An example is that the ram inputs and outputs are build differently because the same i7 core could probably only take 32gb of ram while this core can take 375gb ram.

Yes it should be able to run a game properly, the problem is it doesnt, well most games show some kind of weakness when loading effects, particles or any other form of data. Imagine league of legends, scrolling down to the minion wave (not the upcoming wave, just the fighting one in the middle with 2 champions fighting) there will be a slight stuttering/frame skipping which is constant) (it appears to happen continuously to give the illusion of slight-heavy fps drops).  

Having said that, why does this happen? Are these hints that my cpu is at fault? Yes it could be any other component but if you think about it, I have already replaced the other components, my motherboard+cpu combo is a prime suspect at this point (I swapped ram sticks to better ones still at 1330 frequency but they are plenty enough).

As my teachers once said, the relaction between Cpu and Memory is always important the motherboard as well (since it creates the middle ground of communication between all the components).

 

Having said all that, I will leave you with yet another question, would I notice a significant difference compared to my current build if I go for a 7700k-based build?

 

,Thanks

[Denis_Twin]

From all this information, do you think it could be the motherboard brand at fault? (I replaced it with warranty some times just to be sure but they said its working as it should, it is not broken or anything).

[nortonb]

Just my 5c

 

Check your outlet grounding.

 

I would also tell you to try a different output on your video card and also a different monitor, but you already did.

 

I had weird system stuttering issues twice, and those were the culprits.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 4/17/2017 at 9:36 AM, TwinDenis said:

Yes it should be able to run a game properly, the problem is it doesnt, well most games show some kind of weakness when loading effects, particles or any other form of data. Imagine league of legends, scrolling down to the minion wave (not the upcoming wave, just the fighting one in the middle with 2 champions fighting) there will be a slight stuttering/frame skipping which is constant) (it appears to happen continuously to give the illusion of slight-heavy fps drops).  

Having said that, why does this happen? Are these hints that my cpu is at fault? Yes it could be any other component but if you think about it, I have already replaced the other components, my motherboard+cpu combo is a prime suspect at this point (I swapped ram sticks to better ones still at 1330 frequency but they are plenty enough).

As my teachers once said, the relaction between Cpu and Memory is always important the motherboard as well (since it creates the middle ground of communication between all the components).

I can't think of anything other than RAM speed (can you OC your RAM?). Not that I know that those memory specs can cause that problem, but it's the only other thing that I can think of that may get in the way.

I mean, if you can't map those stutters to CPU usage, CPU throttling, or GPU throttling... (btw, I may have missed some details in previous posts: does this happen while you get 100+ FPS or does it happen because it goes to 10- FPS -random numbers disclaimer-?)

[Denis_Twin]

On 4/19/2017 at 3:58 AM, nortonb said:

Just my 5c

 

Check your outlet grounding.

 

I would also tell you to try a different output on your video card and also a different monitor, but you already did.

 

I had weird system stuttering issues twice, and those were the culprits.

True I tried them, but stuttering is not a specific issue, it could literally be anything

Is it possible that it could be the mobo?

Some people suggested that, and I do not mean that its broken or something since its replaced by warranty already more than once just to be sure but yeah...

[Denis_Twin]

On 4/19/2017 at 4:09 AM, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I can't think of anything other than RAM speed (can you OC your RAM?). Not that I know that those memory specs can cause that problem, but it's the only other thing that I can think of that may get in the way.

I mean, if you can't map those stutters to CPU usage, CPU throttling, or GPU throttling... (btw, I may have missed some details in previous posts: does this happen while you get 100+ FPS or does it happen because it goes to 10- FPS -random numbers disclaimer-?)

nothing can be changed by the mobo bios from speeds, and I mean... Nothing, only the features like speedstep and such

[Jito463]

Xeons can be used for gaming, but they're not designed for it.  Their internal architecture is optimized for a different type of workload.  It's like using the FirePro or Quadro cards for gaming.  Can you do it?  Yes.  Should you do it?  No.  They're intended for a different purpose, and their design is optimized for that purpose.  Same with the Xeons.

[TommyTwommy]

Whatever you do.. don't get an i5.. Either a Ryzen 5 or a Ryzen 7 or an i7... Getting anything from intel that is not i7 makes no sense.

[typographie]

On 4/16/2017 at 0:16 PM, TwinDenis said:

Also what is so bad about the i7 2600 ? I thougt core speed was what we were looking for, I think it has plenty.

Clock speed matters in some comparisons, and not in others. 3.4 GHz from a Sandy Bridge chip from 2011 is not equivalent to 3.4 GHz from a Kaby Lake chip from 2017. The newer CPU gets more done per each clock cycle, so it's faster at the same clock speed. You do want a decent clock speed for a gaming system, but that can only be compared directly against other CPUs of the same generation.

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/64621/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-1620-10M-Cache-3_60-GHz-0_0-GTs-Intel-QPI

It looks to me like this Xeon is probably just a rebranded Sandy Bridge-era Core i7, like an i7-2600. It's going to run like any other quad-core Sandy Bridge chip at that clock speed. It's getting a bit old for my tastes, but as long as its cheap enough I don't see a problem with it. It does require the LGA-2011 CPU socket (not LGA-1155), so it's going to need an X79 motherboard, and I think those are still kinda expensive.

 

The issue with some Xeons is that the higher-end ones often have enormous core counts but only run at 2 GHz or so. They'll run games just fine, but games care a lot more about per-core throughput and a more limited number of cores. So their strengths are usually not applicable to gaming. But quad-core Xeons are usually similar to i7's of the same generation.

[Denis_Twin]

1 hour ago, berny22 said:

Whatever you do.. don't get an i5.. Either a Ryzen 5 or a Ryzen 7 or an i7... Getting anything from intel that is not i7 makes no sense.

I guess that is an opinion, which one is the best chip for around under 400 bucks to offer the best gaming performance? Doing some CAD as well but its not a massively heavy workload

1 hour ago, typographie said:

Clock speed matters in some comparisons, and not in others. 3.4 GHz from a Sandy Bridge chip from 2011 is not equivalent to 3.4 GHz from a Kaby Lake chip from 2017. The newer CPU gets more done per each clock cycle, so it's faster at the same clock speed. You do want a decent clock speed for a gaming system, but that can only be compared directly against other CPUs of the same generation.

 

http://ark.intel.com/products/64621/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-1620-10M-Cache-3_60-GHz-0_0-GTs-Intel-QPI

It looks to me like this Xeon is probably just a rebranded Sandy Bridge-era Core i7, like an i7-2600. It's going to run like any other quad-core Sandy Bridge chip at that clock speed. It's getting a bit old for my tastes, but as long as its cheap enough I don't see a problem with it. It does require the LGA-2011 CPU socket (not LGA-1155), so it's going to need an X79 motherboard, and I think those are still kinda expensive.

 

The issue with some Xeons is that the higher-end ones often have enormous core counts but only run at 2 GHz or so. They'll run games just fine, but games care a lot more about per-core throughput and a more limited number of cores. So their strengths are usually not applicable to gaming. But quad-core Xeons are usually similar to i7's of the same generation.

Well, again I have the 3.6/3.8ghz version of xeon from that generation.

I was also curious if that shouldn't be the problem, could it be the motherboard as some suggested?

I cant repeat the whole thing here but since the thread progressed please check it out if you will.

To check my motherboard model go to my profile, the computer itself was a prebuild workstation by dell which I then replaced some parts to cover gaming like my gpu and ram as well as ssd.

The components do not seem to be faulty according to dell.

It is hinted that its a mechanical issue and not software.

It just happens every time and is replicated all the time.

Does it make games unplayable? Yes, most of them and some of the less demanding ones as well. Of course some games are optimized to just load the entire game once and have it ready so the system doesnt have to tap into the data all the time so they do not have as much of a problem as other games. We are talking about a big group of games, not just few. 

[5kept1caL]

On 4/16/2017 at 4:35 AM, TwinDenis said:

he said games support fewer faster cpus while looking at my xeon it has 3.6-3.8ghz speeds, this should be enough to run them right?

In my case I notice weird frame skipping when playing lets say heroes of the storm (starcaft engine) after units start to fight and such which of course in some cases affects my performance as well (movements become choppy and less noticable).

Could you review my own xeon and see if that could occur and why?

I am concerned, thanks though

Definitely pair this CPU with a decent Graphics card. I went from a Pentium G4560 to this Xeon, paired with my GTX 1050ti SC, and got over double framerate boost on highest settings. This was an unstable 60 -130 FPS, to a stable 140-220FPS on CS:GO. This older Xeon was 100 MHz better than the Pentium, and got double core & thread boost. The only problem was the downgrade in RAM speed from 2133MHz DDR4 - 1600MHz DDR3. However, I did double the RAM count to from 16GB - 32GB. The best part is going from 3MB CPU Cache, to 10MB CPU Cache. I have tested streaming, and it is flawless on counter strike. I would usually have better performance on Overwatch, than on CS, because of the better graphics engine, so some of the more popular AAA tiltles should have no problem with recording/streaming. Plus, this chip should handle moderate video/audio production.