Microsoft hints at x86 Phone. Surface Phone Confirmed?

[AlTech]

Microsoft has hinted at an upcoming x86 Phone in the makings. The recent Windows 10 Mobile Creator's Update Insider Preview was renamed "April 2017 update for ARM based Phone Devices". 

 

This has led to speculation that Microsoft is working on an x86 phone.

 

There's been a hell of a lot of hard facts which say they have been looking at the idea.....

 

Whether Microsoft intends for Windows 10 Mobile to run x86 phones or for Windows 10 based Phones to run x86 CPUs is yet to be determined. 

 

As usual, I do think that Microsoft needs to be more transparent with wtf is going on with regard to Phone devices running Windows 10.

 

Quote

What's more curious is the name in which Microsoft appears to have given it. Never before has Microsoft referred to Windows 10 Mobile as a version of Windows 10 for arm-based Phone Devices.

For those curious ARM is the architecture of the processor that Qualcomm uses (as well as Apple, and others) in your phone. It differs from x86 architecture for your PC.

Does this mean that there are versions of Windows 10 out there for x86-based phones too? Could this be Microsoft's new naming scheme for Windows phone-based devices? Who knows. At this point, Microsoft hasn't explained the reason for the name change.

 

 

http://www.windowscentral.com/april-2017-update-arm-based-phone-devices-now-rolling-out-fast-ring-windows-10-mobile

 

 

[PlayStation 2]

@Daring

I wanna see how you react to this.

[Nowak]

Remember when the Surface Phone was confirmed? In 2014? Then again in 2015, and then in 2016?

 

[AlTech]

I will admit that the clickbait on this title is truly diabolical . But I mean zMEUL gets away with worse so meh.

[AlTech]

Just now, Daring said:

Remember when the Surface Phone was confirmed? In 2014?

 

Remember when Android ran smoothely on devices by Google?

 

Nexus device owners remember.

[PlayStation 2]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

I will admit that the clickbait on this title is truly diabolical . But I mean zMEUL gets away with worse so meh.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Nowak]

Just now, AluminiumTech said:

Remember when Android ran smoothely on devices by Google?

 

Nexus device owners remember.

Why yes, I do. My Pixel runs at a beautiful 60 frames per second with no frame drops at all.

[Trixanity]

x86 for mobile is dead. Intel has killed everything on their mobile roadmap (mobile as in phones) and AMD doesn't have anything in the works for mobile either.

 

What I do see Microsoft doing is releasing a Snapdragon 835 Surface phone that can run x86 apps in Continuum and a Snapdragon 835 Surface 4 tablet that can run x86 generally speaking. The RS3 update is supposed to support ARM processors (pretty much just SD835 at this point) that can do x86 emulation.

 

However, the Surface phone is probably dead too, so it's most likely just a new ARM-based tablet.

I'm guessing this "news" is just about an internal naming scheme to differentiate their various OS products.

[dalekphalm]

I love how a "Microsoft hints at something" rumour turns into "x86 Surface Phone confirmed" lol.

 

Now look, I do believe Microsoft has been working on an x86 phone for years, and they likely will use the Surface Brand to sell it. But they're just as much reliant on Intel for this as they are for any other internal hardware design.

 

It could happen, but I remain skeptical. I would be pleased if they could do it in a way that:

1. Matches current high end ARM SoC performance (Whatever SD 8xx is current gen)

2. Has x86 software compatibility mode (I'm talking standard Win32 installers) - bonus points if 64-bit - I would be okay if this was restricted to Continuum Mode only

3. 86x software performance is equal to a decently smooth low-to-medium-end experience

[DocSwag]

2 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

x86 for mobile is dead. Intel has killed everything on their mobile roadmap (mobile as in phones) and AMD doesn't have anything in the works for mobile either.

I thought amd had it in the plans to repurpose zen for arm?

[vanished]

18 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Microsoft has hinted at an upcoming x86 Phone in the makings. The recent Windows 10 Mobile Creator's Update Insider Preview was renamed "April 2017 update for ARM based Phone Devices". 

 

This has led to speculation that Microsoft is working on an x86 phone.

Oh come on... I'd love to see it happen but is this seriously what we're basing it on?  May as well be "Steam has 3 consonants, Half-life 3 confirmed"

[Trixanity]

Just now, DocSwag said:

I thought amd had it in the plans to repurpose zen for arm?

What do you mean?

AMD isn't going to do phone SoCs. I mean Intel has already been curb-stomped by Qualcomm, so what chance does AMD have? Intel threw billions upon billions into getting a piece of that sweet Android pie but nothing worked.

 

If you mean the K12 ARM processors: those are for servers, not phones. And I'm not sure what's going on with those. We haven't heard much about those in quite some time. We're talking about x86 on ARM for consumer devices, particularly phones, in this thread.

[AlTech]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Oh come on... I'd love to see it happen but is this seriously what we're basing it on?  May as well be "Steam has 3 consonants, Half-life 3 confirmed"

Microsoft has an event coming up in May..... Maybe possible Surface Phone? 

 

IDK. AMD have shown interest in making x86 based CPUs for low powered tablets and potentially smartphones so......... 

[vanished]

Just now, AluminiumTech said:

Microsoft has an event coming up in May..... Maybe possible Surface Phone? 

 

IDK. AMD have shown interest in making x86 based CPUs for low powered tablets and potentially smartphones so......... 

I've just seen it speculated too many times to believe any more.

[PlayStation 2]

Speculation isn't news. Don't be a CNN. Don't speculate that something may happen when no one knows much of anything here.

[silberdrachi]

I got one of the Asus Zenphones that had an Intel x86 in there. and promptly returned it after less than 2 weeks because of frustrations with it. Im not convinced this is a needed thing. I see little to no justification for the x86 instruction set in a mobile environment.

[AlTech]

2 minutes ago, silberdrachi said:

I got one of the Asus Zenphones that had an Intel x86 in there. and promptly returned it after less than 2 weeks because of frustrations with it. Im not convinced this is a needed thing. I see little to no justification for the x86 instruction set in a mobile environment.

Emulating software, running full Windows 10 and more...

[Nowak]

Just now, AluminiumTech said:

Emulating software, running full Windows 10 and more...

Let's be real here. Who actually wants to run a full desktop operating system on their phones?

[Trixanity]

2 minutes ago, silberdrachi said:

I got one of the Asus Zenphones that had an Intel x86 in there. and promptly returned it after less than 2 weeks because of frustrations with it. Im not convinced this is a needed thing. I see little to no justification for the x86 instruction set in a mobile environment.

Yeah, it isn't necessary per se. The whole reason people are ranting and raving about a Surface x86 phone is because they somehow believe x86 on phones will be useful but it would be such a niche feature that it won't save the Windows Mobile ecosystem. Running x86 outside of Continuum makes no sense, would be a horrible experience and won't really solve the "no apps"-problem.

 

Other than that, x86 or ARM makes no difference except ARM is the better choice for mobile applications or have at least become the better choice due to it being the de facto standard instruction set in mobile operating systems.

[Nowak]

10 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Yeah, it isn't necessary per se. The whole reason people are ranting and raving about a Surface x86 phone is because they somehow believe x86 on phones will be useful but it would be such a niche feature that it won't save the Windows Mobile ecosystem. Running x86 outside of Continuum makes no sense, would be a horrible experience and won't really solve the "no apps"-problem.

 

Other than that, x86 or ARM makes no difference except ARM is the better choice for mobile applications or have at least become the better choice due to it being the de facto standard instruction set in mobile operating systems.

Basically this. An x86 phone will do nothing to save Windows Phone. It did not set the Android world on fire, so why would it set a niche OS' world on fire?

[goodtofufriday]

1 hour ago, Daring said:

Let's be real here. Who actually wants to run a full desktop operating system on their phones?

As an IT admin in new york city -  A LOT, I mean, A LOT of us here do. Traveling from building to building with a laptop, even my surface, is a damn hassle. if I could just carry my phone and an ethernet dongle I'd buy that soo fast and deploy it to all my employees as well.

[Trixanity]

1 minute ago, goodtofufriday said:

As an IT admin in new york city -  A LOT, I mean, A LOT of us here do. Traveling from building to building with a laptop, even my surface, is a damn hassle. if I could just carry my phone and an ethernet dongle I'd buy that soo fast and deploy it to all my employees as well.

You'd still need a dock with a display, mouse and keyboard to get any use out of it and by then why wouldn't you just set up a client machine that you can log onto with company credentials and have access to all your stuff?

 

The only thing separating a hypothetical x86 Continuum phone from a thin client or other computing device is where the hardware is located.

[goodtofufriday]

Just now, Trixanity said:

You'd still need a dock with a display, mouse and keyboard to get any use out of it and by then why wouldn't you just set up a client machine that you can log onto with company credentials and have access to all your stuff?

 

The only thing separating a hypothetical x86 Continuum phone from a thin client or other computing device is where the hardware is located.

Why would I need all that? The phone has a screen, the touch screen has a mouse and an on screen keyboard. I use RDP and teamviewer on my 4.7" screen with no issues. Being able to run x86 apps would let me run many applications that maybe you arent aware of? 

A local machine aint gonna help when the network as said location is down or having issues that I need to be on site for. 

 

It'd be hella more convenient 

[Trixanity]

Just now, goodtofufriday said:

Why would I need all that? The phone has a screen, the touch screen has a mouse and an on screen keyboard. I use RDP and teamviewer on my 4.7" screen with no issues. Being able to run x86 apps would let me run many applications that maybe you arent aware of? 

A local machine aint gonna help when the network as said location is down or having issues that I need to be on site for. 

 

It'd be hella more convenient 

I have tried Teamviewer on a touch screen actually. It wasn't a good experience. Sure, I'd use it in a pinch but on a daily or weekly basis? I'd rather chop my own arm off. 

 

x86 programs on a 5" touch screen are cumbersome. These programs are made for large displays with keyboard and mouse. They don't scale. It's times like these where you just wanna pull out a proper device. This is kinda like when people want apps, keyboards and all kinds of things on a smartwatch. At a certain point moving functionality over to a smaller form factor becomes so limiting and painful that it's easier to just go get the device it's suited for.

 

And what x86 apps aren't I aware of? There are thousands if not millions of x86 programs so it's pretty unlikely that I'll guess which applications you're referring to.

 

Also, you could still set up a local machine and plug in a Windows-To-Go thumb drive and have access to the same natively.

You could also use a Compute Stick. There are tons of ways to do this besides engineering an x86 compatible phone. So there are already solutions to your problem. What you're trying to create is a Swiss army knife but better dedicated tools already exist.

[Nowak]

28 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

Why would I need all that? The phone has a screen, the touch screen has a mouse and an on screen keyboard. I use RDP and teamviewer on my 4.7" screen with no issues. Being able to run x86 apps would let me run many applications that maybe you arent aware of? 

A local machine aint gonna help when the network as said location is down or having issues that I need to be on site for. 

 

It'd be hella more convenient 

x86 programs on an 8" screen are cumbersome and clunky, I'd imagine it'd be even worse on a 5" screen.