Apple to build in-house GPU. Dropping Imagination Technologies PowerVR

[randomhkkid]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39476898

 

Well this is awkward.

 

You'll know Imagination Technologies PLC as the company behind the designs for the powerhouse GPUs that every Apple iDevice has included since the iPhone. Based on their IP Apple customised the GPUs to achieve the class leading performance in recent years.

 

Imagination released a press release today stating that Apple has told them of their intent to switch to an in-house GPU architecture in the next 15 months to 2 years. 

Quote

Apple has told Imagination that it is "working on a separate, independent graphics design in order to control its products and will be reducing its future reliance on Imagination's technology".

Apple already only licenses the technology from Imagination Technologies plc. Specifically they license the GPU core IP with all implementation and testing being done in house. This move means that they will no longer pay royalties to Imagination as they are designing their own architecture.

Quote

Last year, Apple paid about £60.7m in royalties to Imagination and it is forecast to pay about £65m for the current financial year.

Apple represents more than half the revenue source for the company, in light of the announcement shares have dropped more than 60%

Quote

Shares fell 180p to 88p, valuing the company at less than £250m. It was worth about £765m before the plunge.

Imagination has hit back at Apple saying that they are dubious they can design a GPU without needing Imagination patents.

Quote

"Further, Imagination believes that it would be extremely challenging to design a brand new GPU architecture from basics without infringing its intellectual property rights, accordingly Imagination does not accept Apple's assertions."

However Apple certainly has the engineering talent as Apple Insider reports

Quote

According to AppleInsider, at least 25 engineers and managers have quit Imagination and gone on to work at Apple over the past two years.

 

DISCLAIMER: I AM IN NO WAY AFFILIATED WITH EITHER IMAGINATION TECHNOLOGIES OR APPLE SINCE LEAVING THE FORMER LAST YEAR

Anecdotally this was a big source of contention within the company when I was there. The hire/fire cycle is extremely high for a UK company due to relatively lower salaries and cost cutting measures. I feel sorry for all the peeps I know who took equity.

 

Edit: As always Anandtech has a great technical piece.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/11243/apple-developing-custom-gpu-dropping-imagination/2

 

They mention that the patents may be more of just an architectural problem:

• PowerVR Texture Compress (PVRTC) - Used extensively
• Patents associated with maintaining backwards comparability - Build into the core of iOS

They also speculate that we could see an Apple GPU as early as the upcoming iPhone 8. Also this 15-24month timeframe means Apple will likely have to release low and high end parts containing new GPUs.

 

 

[Droidbot]

Let them rot. After the Poulsbo incident I stay away from PowerVR mobile GPUs

[randomhkkid]

Just now, Droidbot said:

Let them rot. After the Poulsbo incident I stay away from PowerVR mobile GPUs

Yeah the Windows graphics implementations were always a mistake.

[zMeul]

the title is factually wrong - Apple hasn't announced shit!

 

Imagination announced Apple is planning to stop using their IP in the next 15 months to 2 years: https://www.imgtec.com/news/press-release/discussions-with-apple-regarding-license-agreement/

[Droidbot]

16 minutes ago, randomhkkid said:

Yeah the Windows graphics implementations were always a mistake.

Not only that, but the lack of 64bit Windows drivers and no Linux drivers whatsoever killed that platform

[mrchow19910319]

If apple did came up with their own GPU solution, it might explained why Macs are not getting an upgrade for so long. 

But I do not know whether they are talking about gpus that are in mobile devices or desktop/laptop GPU. 

[randomhkkid]

2 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

If apple did came up with their own GPU solution, it might explained why Macs are not getting an upgrade for so long. 

But I do not know whether they are talking about gpus that are in mobile devices or desktop/laptop GPU. 

It's mobile GPUs, though I predict the two will begin to converge more architecturally in the next couple years.

[Notional]

I'm sure apple can do without Imadination's IP rights. What apple cannot do however, is make GPU's without ip rights from AMD/NVidia/Qualcomm.

[ivan134]

Fix for night theme users

 

[randomhkkid]

3 minutes ago, ivan134 said:

Fix for night theme users

 

A please would do nicely

Did that work? No idea how to enable night theme to check.

[Notional]

Just now, randomhkkid said:

A please would do nicely

Did that work? No idea how to enable night theme to check.

At the very bottom of this page, it says THEME. You can pick between day and night theme there.

[Valentyn]

Imagination Technologies Share price has dropped 70% because of Apple dropping them.

 

Damn rough if you were invested in them and didn't pay attention to rumors.

 

http://www.cbronline.com/news/mobility/devices/shares-imagination-technologies-crash-70-uk-chip-firm-loses-biggest-customer-apple/

 

UK chip designer Imagination Technologies has seen its shares plunge 70% after news that its biggest customer – Apple – will no longer use the company’s tech for upcoming products.

[WkdPaul]

*spill in aisle 3*

 

Thread cleaned, please keep it on-topic and stay within the Community Standards when interacting with others.

[LAwLz]

That's a surprise considering how well Imagine has worked out for Apple so far. I am also surprised that not more manufacturers such as MediaTek has picked them up for their high end SKUs. Their GPUs are really good.

Maybe this will cause them do drop prices, and then start appearing in more SoCs.

[randomhkkid]

12 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Imagination Technologies Share price has dropped 70% because of Apple dropping them.

 

Damn rough if you were invested in them and didn't pay attention to rumors.

 

http://www.cbronline.com/news/mobility/devices/shares-imagination-technologies-crash-70-uk-chip-firm-loses-biggest-customer-apple/

 

Yeah it was bound to happen eventually but that timeframe is crazy short considering the lifecycle of GPU IP.

[randomhkkid]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

That's a surprise considering how well Imagine has worked out for Apple so far. I am also surprised that not more manufacturers such as MediaTek has picked them up for their high end SKUs. Their GPUs are really good.

Maybe this will cause them do drop prices, and then start appearing in more SoCs.

Mediatek actually do utilise the IP IIRC, Imagination cores tend to be a little expensive for more budget focussed SoC makers.

[Sauron]

I'm curious to see how they'll be able to design a gpu from scratch, without using anyone else's patents, while still maintaining retrocompatibility (I guess you could compile stuff twice if the libraries are all ported...? But then who's going to force devs to do that with old apps?) and without the bugs that take decades of experience and development on an architecture to iron out.

[Misanthrope]

Normally I'd say it's foolish for any company to invest so much to do something in-house where specialized companies are so far ahead but if anyone has the cash it certainly is Apple.

 

Though it also means you're shit out of luck as an Apple gamer.

[sazrocks]

11 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Normally I'd say it's foolish for any company to invest so much to do something in-house where specialized companies are so far ahead but if anyone has the cash it certainly is Apple.

 

Though it also means you're shit out of luck as an Apple gamer.

Are you sure? Stuff apple designs in house tends to actually seem to be powerful (processors in all the iphones). I think they might have a chance to make something good here.

[Dylanc1500]

So how long till we get rose gold designer add in cards that cost twice as much as the Titan?

[DocSwag]

Damn... This is so soon after Imagination announced their next generation GPU architecture, Furion, too...

 

Then again, we know how good Apple can be at designing this stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if soon enough we'll see an Apple GPU that is like a repeat of Cyclone.

[Misanthrope]

41 minutes ago, sazrocks said:

Are you sure? Stuff apple designs in house tends to actually seem to be powerful (processors in all the iphones). I think they might have a chance to make something good here.

Yes I am sure: there's more to in house designing for Apple to master: AMD Radeon cards are almost always more powerful than Nvidia counterparts in terms of hardware yet the Nvidia cards are usually equal with less compute units and speed or even faster in real world applications (games) It's all because optimization and working closely with everybody in the chain: The OS, API designers, Game Engine designers and Game Asset designers.

 

So Apple would have to basically invest not only in the hardware but also in an entire ecosystem so their games would work well with their in house GPU. That is definitively not gonna happen anytime soon.

 

Rather Apple will focus on just like a handful of apps oriented towards workstation and design work to work really well with it and that's about it really. There is currently almost no market for games on Apple desktops. The mobile games are very simple games that require no optimization to run ok so it wouldn't take that much to get the mobile games working just fine on it. Desktop games however, that's another thing and I don't see any indication they'll go balls deep into gaming and if they where, it wouldn't be for desktop games they'd make a console or portable console that's more dedicated than iphones instead.

[ashypanda]

only £60odd million in royalties, holy fudge knuckles apple was screwing the crap out of them.

[Trixanity]

27 minutes ago, ashypanda said:

only £60odd million in royalties, holy fudge knuckles apple was screwing the crap out of them.

I agree. I scratched my head at that. I would have thought Imagination made at least a billion from this deal given how many units Apple are moving and how much revenue they have. For them to only making some 60 million a year is laughable.

[flibberdipper]

If Apple manages to design a GPU which has the same dank performance as the CPUs, I feel like this might be a good thing. But I have my doubts.