Ryzen possibly held back by Nvidia's drivers

[Majestic]

Update: New test done by Hardware Unboxed.

9 hours ago, Mihle said:

 

 

Some interesting results from AdoredTV, showing some massive improvements when running Tomb Raider in DX12 mode on AMD grahics cards, instead of the Nvidia cards everyone else uses.

The theory being that Nvidia's driver or API isn't capable of breaking up the threads as efficiently and thus unable to utilize the Ryzen chips to their fullest potential. It makes sense that AMD would optimize their hardware to work best with their own graphics hardware. But these results are quite hopeful.

 

 

WIll be interesting to see how this is followed up, and if more outlets report this. Or the results are just a fluke instead. Would also be interesting to see how this still holds up when pitted against a 6900K.

[xentropa]

If APIs are unoptimized, that seems more of an incompatibility between the driver software and the OS rather than the hardware.

[Mihle]

Look at this graphs if you dont want to see the video, look at the strange results, that must be caused by Nvidia DX12 drivers:

 

Spoiler

 

Look how hard Ryzen is hit with a Nvidia GPU. While its not with RX480 Crossfire

 

When it comes time to test Vega cards, I really want to see Vega Tested vs 1080 tion BOTH 7700k AND Ryzen, not just one of them

[DocSwag]

Just now, Majestic said:

Yeah, it could be. And there is still the fact that the test is between a 4C/8T and a 8C/16T CPU. Could very well be that the benefit granted to the Ryzen CPU is nullified by an equal threaded CPU like the 6900K

Though I think a 6900k would still be closer to a 7700k than the 1800x.

[XenosTech]

2 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Yeah, it could be. And there is still the fact that the test is between a 4C/8T and a 8C/16T CPU. Could very well be that the benefit granted to the Ryzen CPU is nullified by an equal threaded CPU like the 6900K

That is also a plausible scenario too... I don't see much reviewers doing tests with setups the common man has

[VagabondWraith]

*opened thread

*saw AdoredTV

*left immediately 

[xAcid9]

Interesting, AFAIK Nvidia driver is better multi-threaded compare to AMD.

[79wjd]

17 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Also, what the hell is wrong with using someone else's data. Have you any clue in how peer research works? Why do everything yourself when you can use cited data.

His 2500k vs. FX8 video shows many issues with just taking other sources data. There is nothing inherently wrong with using the data from other sources....so long as you are capable of determining what is scientifically accurate and what is not. 

[EminentSun]

This could simply be due to the fact that amd gpus gets far more out of vulkan and dx12 as the rx 480s saw massive gains with either cpu.

[XenosTech]

1 minute ago, xAcid9 said:

Interesting, AFAIK Nvidia driver is better multi-threaded compare to AMD.

True, I mean it could be just this one off thing but not many reviewers were testing with other lower end cars to see what the outcome would be.

 

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

His 2500k vs. FX8 video shows many issues with just taking other sources data. There is nothing inherently wrong with using the data from other sources....so long as you are capable of determining what is scientifically accurate and what is not. 

He had an update to that and it was funny too since other tech tubers mentioned GN and he used GN's numbers from their latest article which showed his point.

[raphidy]

Okay, if i want best performance in dx12, I'll have to be locked down with both cpu and gpu. We need more benches about this though.

[Mihle]

Just now, EminentSun said:

This could simply be due to the fact that amd gpus gets far more out of vulkan and dx12 as the rx 480s saw massive gains with either cpu.

The hole point of the video was that there are something strange with with the NVidia DX12 drivers, aka they arent good.... 

[Carclis]

1 minute ago, EminentSun said:

This could simply be due to the fact that amd gpus gets far more out of vulkan and dx12 as the rx 480s saw massive gains with either cpu.

That doesn't really explain why the Ryzen CPU appreciated relative to the 7700k though.

[Humbug]

15 minutes ago, xAcid9 said:

Interesting, AFAIK Nvidia driver is better multi-threaded compare to AMD.

in legacy APIs, I.e. Upto directx11 or any version of openGL traditionally Nvidia had lower CPU overhead and better multithreading.

 

There is a claim however that Nvidia GPU architecture is less suitable for modern APIs like Vulkan/DX12 and that compared to AMD, NVidia is attempting to emulate more functions in software. It looks like that is the accusation that adoredtv is trying to expand on. He is saying that this newer part of NVidia's software suite is not yet well optimized or multithreaded.

[WkdPaul]

Unlocked

 

*aisle 3 was cleaned*

 

Also moved to the CPUs, Motherboards, and Memory section

[DocSwag]

24 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Unlocked

 

*aisle 3 was cleaned*

 

Also moved to the CPUs, Motherboards, and Memory section

Why exactly were a bunch of the posts deleted?

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

There is nothing inherently wrong with using the data from other sources....so long as you are capable of determining what is scientifically accurate and what is not. 

Oh, i agree completely. But the remark was "he doesn't do his own testing", not that is conclusion was flawed/

[WkdPaul]

24 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

Why exactly were a bunch of the posts deleted?

Antagonizing, patronizing and insults were removed, so were the replies referencing those.

[JuztBe]

Interesting to say the least. Would love to see a fallow up benchmarks from other sources, and what's the situation in other DX12 titles :?

[DocSwag]

37 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Antagonizing, patronizing and insults were removed, so were the replies referencing those.

Why does this forum always end up descending into insults whenever AMD vs. Nvidia or Intel vs. AMD appears

[ivan134]

This is what has been infuriating me when people say DX 12 is crap so far and they only want Vulkan. Most benchmarks are down with Nvidia's cards which are garbage at low level APIs. Fact is DX 12 has a better track record so far than Vulkan when using AMD GPUs. About 80% DX 12 games work properly and give better performance than DX 11 using and cards. Vulkan is only 50% (everyone seems to forget the Talos principle).

 

This isn't just AMD catching up to Nvidia's DX 11 performance. There 480 beats the 1060 no matter the API the 1060 uses in all DX 12 games except BF1 and quantum break. The 480 is also faster in DX 12 than DX 11 in all these games, including games that had bad DX 12 launches like deus ex MD and the division. Reviewers aren't retesting these games after patches and we have to rely on Reddit and tech forums to get this info.

 

Also, for people who still don't believe that Pascal is only slightly less garbage at low level APIs than Maxwell, there you go. Software emulation will never match up having proper hardware.

[Terryv]

Isn't Pascal also just Maxwell with a node shrink?

 

I've long suspected that Nvidia doesn't actually do asynchronous compute on a hardware level. This is further evidence to that.

 

 

Also, DX12 being windows 10 exclusive is crap, I do hope Vulkan becomes the API of choice. I don't like being forced into Microsoft.

[PopReference]

Don't want to trash any tech channels for what they do but it should really be encouraged that "reviewers" put more work into their testing and anyone that goes through the full effort should be applauded.

[Citadelen]

I'm really looking forward to Vega's launch specifically to see how it will interact with Ryzen CPUs, originally I wasn't too excited for Vega, but it'll be really interesting to see how they perform with Ryzen CPUs.

[Terryv]

20 minutes ago, PopReference said:

Don't want to trash any tech channels for what they do but it should really be encouraged that "reviewers" put more work into their testing and anyone that goes through the full effort should be applauded.

Agreed, I've been watching his videos (AdoredTV) for a while. I like the way he does things and his effort to understand why certain things happen.

 

Unfortunately his results don't always match up to popular opinion (witch is why he's getting so much hate ATM).

 

I've yet to see bias in his reviews, always shows good and bad from both sides and uses sound logic to come to conclusions.