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Ashes of the Singularity Receives Ryzen Performance Update - Up to 31% Improvement

HKZeroFive

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So it's no big secret that Ryzen's performance, while still admirable, wasn't quite as good as Intel's offerings in the vast multitude of gaming titles. Many speculated that Ryzen will receive optimisations that will increase performance over time (or the term AMD fanboys like to use - FineWine Technology) and we've already heard the developers behind Ashes of the Singularity and the Total War series back this up. I'm not going lie - I was extremely skeptical about this due to a lack of proof and precedent and I'm sure a good chunk of the PC community (including several reviewers) shared the same sentiment. Alas, take a look at PCPer's Ryan Shrout's review of the update:

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The result of 400 developer hours of work, the Nitrous Engine powering Ashes of the Singularity received an update today to version 26118 that integrates updates to threading to better balance the performance across Ryzen 7’s 8 cores and 16 threads. I was able to do some early testing on the new revision, as well as with the previous retail shipping version (25624) to see what kind of improvements the patch brings with it.

 

Stardock / Oxide CEO Brad Wardell had this to say in a press release:

 

“I’ve always been vocal about taking advantage of every ounce of performance the PC has to offer. That’s why I’m a strong proponent of DirectX 12 and Vulkan® because of the way these APIs allow us to access multiple CPU cores, and that’s why the AMD Ryzen processor has so much potential,” said Stardock and Oxide CEO Brad Wardell. “As good as AMD Ryzen is right now – and it’s remarkably fast – we’ve already seen that we can tweak games like Ashes of the Singularity to take even more advantage of its impressive core count and processing power. AMD Ryzen brings resources to the table that will change what people will come to expect from a PC gaming experience.”

It's worth noting that Ashes of the Singularity was one of the few titles that showed a large disparity in performance between AMD's Ryzen and Intel's i7 6900K and i7 7700K processors, the others being Rise of the Tomb Raider, Civilisation VI and Hitman.

 

Without any further ado, here are the results:

 

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These are substantial performance improvements with the new engine code! At both 2400 MHz and 3200 MHz memory speeds, and at both High and Extreme presets in the game (all running in DX12 for what that’s worth), the gaming performance on the GPU-centric is improved. At the High preset (which is the setting that AMD used in its performance data for the press release), we see a 31% jump in performance when running at the higher memory speed and a 22% improvement with the lower speed memory. Even when running at the more GPU-bottlenecked state of the Extreme preset, that performance improvement for the Ryzen processors with the latest Ashes patch is 17-20%!

 

It’s also important to note that Intel performance is unaffected – either for the better or worse. Whatever work Oxide did to improve the engine for AMD’s Ryzen processors had NO impact on the Core processors, which is interesting to say the least. The cynic in me would believe there is little chance that any agnostic changes to code would raise Intel’s multi-core performance at least a little bit.

 

So what exactly is happening to the engine with v26118? I haven’t had a chance to have an in-depth conversation with anyone at AMD or Oxide yet on the subject, but at a high level, I was told that this is what happens when instructions and sequences are analyzed for an architecture specifically. “For basically 5 years”, I was told, Oxide and other developers have dedicated their time to “instruction traces and analysis to maximize Intel performance” which helps to eliminate poor instruction setup. After spending some time with Ryzen and the necessary debug tools (and some AMD engineers), they were able to improve performance on Ryzen without adversely affecting Intel parts.

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I am hoping to get more specific detail in the coming days, but it would seem very likely that Oxide was able to properly handle the more complex core to core communication systems on Ryzen and its CCX implementation. We demonstrated early this month how thread to thread communication across core complexes causes substantially latency penalties, and that a developer that intelligently manages threads that have dependencies on the core complex can improve overall performance. I would expect this is at least part of the solution Oxide was able to integrate (and would also explain why Intel parts are unaffected).

To be honest, this is a double edged sword for me. I recognised that there was something off with Ryzen's performance seeing how its IPC in multithreaded non-gaming workloads wasn't that far behind than Intel's offerings. It's good in the sense that with the right amount of development and effort, we can see large performance gains such as this in current and future titles. It's bad in the sense that in today's gaming developer world, the culture has always seemed to be put in as little effort as possible for a maximum amount of money; most developers will not put in the time and effort to patch their already existing games for Ryzen.

 

Obviously, this may be a isolated situation seeing how this specific title has always been AMD's benchmarking baby (2 RX 480s > GTX 1080 anybody?) but if this is indeed an universal case then we have a very interesting time ahead of us. It's promising but I'd still remain skpetical.

 

Source: https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Ashes-Singularity-Gets-Ryzen-Performance-Update

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Be nice to each other boys and girls. And don't cheap out on a power supply.

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how is it getting those improvements?

just better optimization, or utilizing more cores?

if utilizing more cores, then that means you should now do a 6900 vs 1800x test again in this game

 

 

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So the baseline is i7 6900k at stock speeds with 2400MHz DDR4?

Then they take stock clocked 1800X which has similar per core performance on 2400MHz RAM and compare it to 6900k and say "This is up to 22% faster!", then they take 3200MHz RAM and say "This is up to 31% faster!".... why don't they also take 3200MHz RAM with 6900k and compare it with that?

Because from the graph I can only guess that all improvements come just from faster RAM.

 

EDIT:

Nvm.. I totally ignored the blue lines, though it still seems to me like the RAM performance was the main factor still.

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2 minutes ago, WereCat said:

So the baseline is i7 6900k at stock speeds with 2400MHz DDR4?

Then they take stock clocked 1800X which has similar per core performance on 2400MHz RAM and compare it to 6900k and say "This is up to 22% faster!", then they take 3200MHz RAM and say "This is up to 31% faster!".... why don't they also take 3200MHz RAM with 6900k and compare it with that?

Because from the graph I can only guess that all improvements come just from faster RAM.

I don't think you understand the graph. The 31% performance improvement is a comparison between the Ryzen processors pre-patch and post-patch. They're not suggesting that the 1800X is suddenly a whopping 31% faster than the i7 6900K because that first benchmark completely contradicts that statement.

'Fanboyism is stupid' - someone on this forum.

Be nice to each other boys and girls. And don't cheap out on a power supply.

Spoiler

CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K - 4.5 GHz | Motherboard: ASUS MAXIMUS VII HERO | RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR3 | SSD: Samsung 850 EVO - 500GB | GPU: MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6GB | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2 | Case: NZXT Phantom 530 | Cooling: CRYORIG R1 Ultimate | Monitor: ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q | Peripherals: Corsair Vengeance K70 and Razer DeathAdder

 

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Just now, HKZeroFive said:

I don't think you understand the graph. The 31% performance improvement is a comparison between the Ryzen processors pre-patch and post-patch. They're not suggesting that the 1800X is suddenly a whopping 31% faster than the i7 6900K because that first benchmark completely contradicts that statement.

 
 

Yea I edited my post, you just didn't saw it :D

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1 minute ago, WereCat said:

Yea I edited my post, you just didn't saw it :D

Ninja'd. Again. :(

'Fanboyism is stupid' - someone on this forum.

Be nice to each other boys and girls. And don't cheap out on a power supply.

Spoiler

CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K - 4.5 GHz | Motherboard: ASUS MAXIMUS VII HERO | RAM: 32GB Corsair Vengeance Pro DDR3 | SSD: Samsung 850 EVO - 500GB | GPU: MSI GTX 980 Ti Gaming 6GB | PSU: EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2 | Case: NZXT Phantom 530 | Cooling: CRYORIG R1 Ultimate | Monitor: ASUS ROG Swift PG279Q | Peripherals: Corsair Vengeance K70 and Razer DeathAdder

 

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1 minute ago, HKZeroFive said:

Ninja'd. Again.

I just somehow looked at the other graph first to see what is the baseline and there were no numbers on the blue lines so I ignored the ones in the first graph for some odd reason... just my bad :P

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Just now, TheRandomness said:

So basically, everything from AMD needs (driver) updates to work better. 

One has to be glad they don't make cars. I can't be so easily updated.

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6 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Oh look: more reasons for AMD enthusiasts to talk and benchmark AOTS all of the fucking time while nobody actually plays the stupid game.

You twisted the point of this post to turn it against AMD imo, but why?

 

This is merely a proof that there are some games in which potential optimizations could increase Ryzen's performance as many claimed before (I did as well) by a significant margin.

 

I agree that this game should be called "Benchmark of the Singularity" but again, that's not the point...

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1 minute ago, Morgan MLGman said:

You twisted the point of this post to turn it against AMD imo, but why?

 

This is merely a proof that there are some games in which potential optimizations could increase Ryzen's performance as many claimed before (I did as well) by a significant margin.

 

I agree that this game should be called "Benchmark of the Singularity" but again, that's not the point...

It is the point because is about as useful as any artificial benchmark: No coders of actually popular games people actually fucking play ever get anywhere fucking near those performance gains and levels.

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Hugh, how many more of these circle jerk thread do we still need?

One day I will be able to play Monster Hunter Frontier in French/Italian/English on my PC, it's just a matter of time... 4 5 6 7 8 9 years later: It's finally coming!!!

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8 minutes ago, themctipers said:

how is it getting those improvements?

just better optimization, or utilizing more cores?

if utilizing more cores, then that means you should now do a 6900 vs 1800x test again in this game

DX12 requires more effort from game developers to optimise for each piece of hardware to get the most out of it. Previously, AotS did use all cores, although it was not using them as efficiently as it could. If only other game developers put as much effort to support and optimise as Stardock and Oxide.

 

2 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Oh look: more reasons for AMD enthusiasts to talk and benchmark AOTS all of the fucking time while nobody actually plays the stupid game.

I play it, and maybe half a dozen other people do too.

 

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Just now, TheRandomness said:

In the CPU/GPU (mainstream) market though, AMD does need to sort out its day one drivers and such. 

Eh, they are finally picking their pace, at least with graphics card department, NV is the one that is screwing it more often in the recent time. Intel is quite ahead in their CPU game, but I don't think I need to comment on Intel and iGPU drivers. 

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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Just now, Bouzoo said:

Eh, they are finally picking their pace, at least with graphics card department, NV is the one that is screwing it more often in the recent time. Intel is quite ahead in their CPU game, but I don't think I need to comment on Intel and iGPU drivers. 

Hopefully AMD will have good day one drivers with Vega.. If so, I'll be getting a 4GB mini Vega card :P

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Just now, TheRandomness said:

Hopefully AMD will have good day one drivers with Vega.. If so, I'll be getting a 4GB mini Vega card :P

I wouldn't hold my breath. :P

The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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14 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Oh look: more reasons for AMD enthusiasts to talk and benchmark AOTS all of the fucking time while nobody actually plays the stupid game.

I play the stupid game... Great RTS with the DLC. 

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GET zMeul ON THE PHONE SO I CAN MAKE SENSE OF THIS !!! WHERE IS zMeul ??!!

 

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On 3/4/2017 at 4:00 PM, zMeul said:

and with AMD going to work with game developers is going to achieve what?! 1-2-3 FPS more on average!?

once you build the CPU that's it, there's no magic to make it better; the gaps that you see now in games will still be there

 

also, the same thing AMD said when discussing Bulldozer issues, that things will get better .. well ?!?! they didn't!

 

 

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Just now, Misanthrope said:

It is the point because is about as useful as any artificial benchmark: No coders of actually popular games people actually fucking play ever get anywhere fucking near those performance gains and levels.

It's a game, just like any other. Just because it's not a good game in the sense of people keeping interest in it, doesn't mean it's as simple to code as a regular benchmark.

 

If in this title those performance games are possible, then they're possible in other (not every, but some) games. You cannot deny this fact with any argument because that's just how it is.

AotS is nothing spectacular and its devs released the Ryzen patch fast because of Oxide's partnership with AMD, what's more is that Total War's:Warhammer creators also agreed that such gains are possible and are already in development of the patch (despite it being a different company).

 

Don't get me wrong, I know that not all of the games will get such boost and not all of the games will get a Ryzen patch at all, but I'm happy to see that my prediction (about such performance gains being possible with a single patch on Ryzen CPUs) is accurate. Now we have to wait and see whether more devs will pick up that trend and work on their own to improve Ryzen's performance.

 

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Also, don't insult people playing that game, I personally don't like AotS but following your logic they can insult you just as well for playing Rocket League or Fallout 4 or whatever games you play "cause they think those games are stupid and no normal person plays them" according to them. As long as the game is fun for you, there's nothing wrong with playing it and trying to make people (regardless whether it's 10 or 10 million of them) feel inferior because of that is wrong in my opinion.

 

For instance - I think Rocket League is one of the dumbest games out there at the moment, but I see how some of my friends have tons of fun playing it and I respect that, you should too.

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Just now, Morgan MLGman said:

It's a game, just like any other. Just because it's not a good game in the sense of people keeping interest in it, doesn't mean it's as simple to code as a regular benchmark.

 

If in this title those performance games are possible, then they're possible in other (not every, but some) games. You cannot deny this fact with any argument because that's just how it is.

AotS is nothing spectacular and its devs released the Ryzen patch fast because of Oxide's partnership with AMD, what's more is that Total War's:Warhammer creators also agreed that such gains are possible and are already in development of the patch (despite it being a different company).

 

Don't get me wrong, I know that not all of the games will get such boost and not all of the games will get a Ryzen patch at all, but I'm happy to see that my prediction (about such performance gains being possible with a single patch on Ryzen CPUs) is accurate. Now we have to wait and see whether more devs will pick up that trend and work on their own to improve Ryzen's performance.

 

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Also, don't insult people playing that game, I personally don't like AotS but following your logic they can insult you just as well for playing Rocket League or Fallout 4 or whatever games you play "cause they think those games are stupid and no normal person plays them" according to them. As long as the game is fun for you, there's nothing wrong with playing it and trying to make people (regardless whether it's 10 or 10 million of them) feel inferior because of that is wrong in my opinion.

 

For instance - I think Rocket League is one of the dumbest games out there at the moment, but I see how some of my friends have tons of fun playing it and I respect that, you should too.

If it was just "not all" or "not most" I wouldn't have such a problem but the more fair statement would be "Almost no other games" will receive patches or launch with Ryzen optimizations.

 

AMD just doesn't has the market share it makes no sense to optimize for them beyond "good enough" which is "make it run 60 FPS 1080p at decent but not max settings"

 

For AMD to turn the tide they need to move more units and then maybe you'll see Ryzen optimizations reach a small niche of games much like Radeon optimized games that are around which are still a minority but one potentially worth considering when purchasing hardware.

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