Best completely free type 1 hypervisor and manager?

[Laggger164]

8 hours ago, Mikensan said:

The Dell R610 and Dell R710 both come in variants that support 3.5" Also the Dell C1100 or C2100 are good options

To be honest, at most jobs you will very rarely (once every 5 years or longer) have to actually setup a server. So by getting an actual server doesn't help your learning too much, but they are certainly cool. An old desktop produced after 2010 or 2011 will work great with ESXi as a lab. Definitely more flexible in terms of parts and expanding.

In terms of RAM, get a smuch as you can afford - buying it later is going to be expensive and you'll want more later. I promise you'll want more. Things like Exchange sit pretty at 10gb for a basic install (no need to keep it on for learning, but hard to run it + other severs when it wants 10gb).

 

If you're trying to train yourself for a job, focus on ESXi - I would easily say it's the leading hypervisor. Right beside is Hyper-V, I believe their licensing is slightly cheaper in enterprise environments, and significantly cheaper (free) in small offices. Some might user Xenserver, even fewer use KVM. A business can't afford a unique/odd configuration since if that person leaves, finding another person to support them may be rare. 

 

 

Alright, I get that I won't be building those servers much, but I most likely will be opening them up for maintenance and fixing problems. Aaand... I don't want to look like a douche who has no idea what he's doing...

 

Is there a free manager for ESXi that allows more features than the one they supply? The price of the software is just ridiculously high.

 

OK, so as much RAM as I can get. I saw a used server with 2 AMD Opteron processors with more memory (I can't remember exactly), but I don't k ow if AMD Opteron processors are worth it when Xeons seem like a better option.

[Electronics Wizardy]

46 minutes ago, Laggger164 said:

Alright, I get that I won't be building those servers much, but I most likely will be opening them up for maintenance and fixing problems. Aaand... I don't want to look like a douche who has no idea what he's doing...

 

Is there a free manager for ESXi that allows more features than the one they supply? The price of the software is just ridiculously high.

 

OK, so as much RAM as I can get. I saw a used server with 2 AMD Opteron processors with more memory (I can't remember exactly), but I don't k ow if AMD Opteron processors are worth it when Xeons seem like a better option.

the free version isn't that limited, the real limits is 8 vcpu's per vm.

 

Ram is normally pretty cheap used, and 24gb will be fine for now.

[Laggger164]

50 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

the free version isn't that limited, the real limits is 8 vcpu's per vm.

 

Ram is normally pretty cheap used, and 24gb will be fine for now.

Oh, I just found out that there are "LFF Drives" available for that HP Proliant DL380 G7.

 

LFF means 3.5" drives and SFF means 2.5" drives!

[Ralms]

2 hours ago, Laggger164 said:

Alright, I get that I won't be building those servers much, but I most likely will be opening them up for maintenance and fixing problems. Aaand... I don't want to look like a douche who has no idea what he's doing...

 

Is there a free manager for ESXi that allows more features than the one they supply? The price of the software is just ridiculously high.

 

OK, so as much RAM as I can get. I saw a used server with 2 AMD Opteron processors with more memory (I can't remember exactly), but I don't k ow if AMD Opteron processors are worth it when Xeons seem like a better option.

Vmware business model around ESXi is basically they give you the Hypervisor for free and charge for support and more advanged management tools that automate things.

For a single server I dont think you need thoses, I haven't felt the needs for more than what ESXi provides out of the box, the web portal to manage everything. For home usage you dont need more than that. 

http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere-hypervisor.html

[Mikensan]

Opteron supports majority of virtual protocols that you'd need. Minus maybe VT-d, but you'd have to google the specific model to find out. Any processor after 2010 should work just fine.

 

Should almost never have to open them up - but even so all the same interfaces as a desktop PC just arranged different so it fits into a slimmer case. If you have the option (money and availability) of buying a server from HP/Dell then why not? :-)

 

There is a free version of ESXi and you'd do so via a website (assuming you run 6.5, the latest). Otherwise version 6.0 and below use a free desktop client to manage the host.

Once you get comfortable with ESXi then you can progress to playing with vCenter which offers a 30 day trial (not long enough imo) or you can sign up with vmug and for $200 you get just about every license there is.

 

Usually SFF = small form factor, first time hearing "LFF" but I'd assume it's large form factor (would just be normal imo lol).

 

 

[Laggger164]

57 minutes ago, Mikensan said:

Opteron supports majority of virtual protocols that you'd need. Minus maybe VT-d, but you'd have to google the specific model to find out. Any processor after 2010 should work just fine.

 

Should almost never have to open them up - but even so all the same interfaces as a desktop PC just arranged different so it fits into a slimmer case. If you have the option (money and availability) of buying a server from HP/Dell then why not? :-)

 

There is a free version of ESXi and you'd do so via a website (assuming you run 6.5, the latest). Otherwise version 6.0 and below use a free desktop client to manage the host.

Once you get comfortable with ESXi then you can progress to playing with vCenter which offers a 30 day trial (not long enough imo) or you can sign up with vmug and for $200 you get just about every license there is.

 

Usually SFF = small form factor, first time hearing "LFF" but I'd assume it's large form factor (would just be normal imo lol).

 

 

Yeah, I have read that SFF = Small Form Factor = 2.5" drives and LFF = Large Form Factor = 3.5" drives.

They wanted a standardised way of calling these drives, so they came up with SFF and LFF. However as far as I know, nobody uses that terminology. Whether they still use it in their documents is unknown to me, but they tried!

 

Is there a reason to use the client instead of the browser?

[Electronics Wizardy]

30 minutes ago, Laggger164 said:

Is there a reason to use the client instead of the browser?

only if your running a old version pre 6.5, otherwise with 6.5 the web client can do more.

[Laggger164]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

only if your running a old version pre 6.5, otherwise with 6.5 the web client can do more.

So what's the point of the software?

 

Also, about the Opteron processor, it was launched in Q3 of 2009, however the TDP is 120W as far as I remember and the performance was worse compared to Xeons.

 

I damn hope Ryzen will do well, AMD has to catch up.

[Laggger164]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

only if your running a old version pre 6.5, otherwise with 6.5 the web client can do more.

So what's the point of the software?

 

Also, about the Opteron processor, it was launched in Q3 of 2009, however the TDP is 120W as far as I remember and the performance was worse compared to Xeons.

 

I damn hope Ryzen will do well, AMD has to catch up.

[Electronics Wizardy]

Just now, Laggger164 said:

So what's the point of the software?

if your running a old version

 

Just now, Laggger164 said:

lso, about the Opteron processor, it was launched in Q3 of 2009, however the TDP is 120W as far as I remember and the performance was worse compared to Xeons.

link please/

 

there is much more than tdp to power usage. Id go with the 1366 xeons, better support, newer, lowerpower, faster

[Laggger164]

3 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

if your running a old version

 

link please/

 

there is much more than tdp to power usage. Id go with the 1366 xeons, better support, newer, lowerpower, faster

I just quickly found a few links:

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-E5420-vs-AMD-Opteron-2427

 

https://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Opteron+2427&id=1408

 

http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/CPUs/AMD/Six-Core_Opteron/2427.html

 

I know there's more to it than TDP, but if Xeons have a TDP of 80W and this Opteron has 115W while being less powerful... that has to mean something right?

[Electronics Wizardy]

6 minutes ago, Laggger164 said:

I just quickly found a few links:

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Xeon-E5420-vs-AMD-Opteron-2427

 

https://cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Opteron+2427&id=1408

 

http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/CPUs/AMD/Six-Core_Opteron/2427.html

 

I know there's more to it than TDP, but if Xeons have a TDP of 80W and this Opteron has 115W while being less powerful... that has to mean something right?

get the intel. faster, much better support, and more efficent.

[Mikensan]

If there's only a small price difference, I'd say go with 1366 based intels as well. 

 

Desktop client for ESXi has been around a long time, some people really prefer it (I especially do over the flash based vcenter web GUI). 6.5 you cannot use the desktop client. So if you will be running the latest then don't worry about it. Honestly though most companies update fairly slowly in my experience, so if you're planning to get into the virtualization world professionally in the next year or so, I'd say install 6.0 and use the desktop client just to learn it.

 

[Laggger164]

22 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

get the intel. faster, much better support, and more efficent.

Alright, so let's talk hard drives.

The HP Proliant DL380 G7 that I saw has 8 slots for 2.5" drives, but HP does offer 3.5" drive caddies because they are so nice! However according to their PDF: https://www.hpe.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04199811.pdf

I will have to get a caddy for it (the seller is saying that he has caddies for sale, he doesn't mention which ones tho) which can cost lots of money, even third-party, used and chinese.

 

Are 2.5" hard drives that bad?

[Mikensan]

2 minutes ago, Laggger164 said:

Alright, so let's talk hard drives.

The HP Proliant DL380 G7 that I saw has 8 slots for 2.5" drives, but HP does offer 3.5" drive caddies because they are so nice! However according to their PDF: https://www.hpe.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04199811.pdf

I will have to get a caddy for it (the seller is saying that he has caddies for sale, he doesn't mention which ones tho) which can cost lots of money, even third-party, used and chinese.

 

Are 2.5" hard drives that bad?

Caddie won't fit if the slot is only meant for 2.5".

 

2.5" cost more per gb, otherwise they're becoming the enterprise norm.

[Electronics Wizardy]

2 minutes ago, Laggger164 said:

Alright, so let's talk hard drives.

The HP Proliant DL380 G7 that I saw has 8 slots for 2.5" drives, but HP does offer 3.5" drive caddies because they are so nice! However according to their PDF: https://www.hpe.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c04199811.pdf

I will have to get a caddy for it (the seller is saying that he has caddies for sale, he doesn't mention which ones tho) which can cost lots of money, even third-party, used and chinese.

 

Are 2.5" hard drives that bad?

if you get the 2.5 model, you can't put 3.5 in(even with different caddies)

 

2.5's are fine(and can have more iops), but cost more fora a givien capicity, and are smaller capicity wise.

[Laggger164]

54 minutes ago, Mikensan said:

Caddie won't fit if the slot is only meant for 2.5".

 

2.5" cost more per gb, otherwise they're becoming the enterprise norm.

 

54 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

if you get the 2.5 model, you can't put 3.5 in(even with different caddies)

 

2.5's are fine(and can have more iops), but cost more fora a givien capicity, and are smaller capicity wise.

Is there an alternative then? Other than buying a different server...

[Electronics Wizardy]

3 minutes ago, Laggger164 said:

 

Is there an alternative then? Other than buying a different server...

get a external sas box like a sa120 or md3000

[Laggger164]

16 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

get a external sas box like a sa120 or md3000

Ummm... I cannot find it for less than 300$

 

Do you know of any cheaper options?

[Laggger164]

22 hours ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

get a external sas box like a sa120 or md3000

OK, so the external HDD boxes are too expensive for me, I might as well go for the 2.5" HDD...

 

Like, it would be cheaper to buy a used Dell R710, get more RAM for it and 2 better (used) CPUs than to go with an external SAS box.

 

What if I just bought a cheap Dell R710 with 6 LFF (3.5") drive bays, used it, and if I feel limited with it I could just buy more ram or even better CPUs. I don't think I can mismatch CPUs right? Seems like a stupid thing to do. I know mismatching RAM is possible, but very unlikely to work.

 

Or a Dell R510 with 8 3.5" drive bays. Looks like a better option for my applications. Also, both are on sale while the R510 is 20€ cheaper at 250€.

[Electronics Wizardy]

19 minutes ago, Laggger164 said:

OK, so the external HDD boxes are too expensive for me, I might as well go for the 2.5" HDD...

 

Like, it would be cheaper to buy a used Dell R710, get more RAM for it and 2 better (used) CPUs than to go with an external SAS box.

 

What if I just bought a cheap Dell R710 with 6 LFF (3.5") drive bays, used it, and if I feel limited with it I could just buy more ram or even better CPUs. I don't think I can mismatch CPUs right? Seems like a stupid thing to do. I know mismatching RAM is possible, but very unlikely to work.

 

Or a Dell R510 with 8 3.5" drive bays. Looks like a better option for my applications. Also, both are on sale while the R510 is 20€ cheaper at 250€.

the stock ram and cpu's should be fine for a while.

 

Id probably just pickup a r510, use the stock cpu's, stock ram is normally fine.

[Laggger164]

21 minutes ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

the stock ram and cpu's should be fine for a while.

 

Id probably just pickup a r510, use the stock cpu's, stock ram is normally fine.

The R510:

 

https://pc.bazos.sk/inzerat/71145664/Predam-2U-rack-server-DELL-PowerEdge-R5108x213GHz8GB.php

 

Has 8GB of RAM, 2 Xeon e5506, 8 3.5" hard disk drive bays, 2 redundant power supplies (doesn't mention wattage tho), 4 GIGABIT ETHERNET PORTS WOOOOOOOOOOT

 

And the R710:

 

https://pc.bazos.sk/inzerat/71145550/Predam-2U-rack-server-DELL-PowerEdge-R7108x16GHz8GB.php

 

Same thing, but 6 3.5" Drive bays and 2 Xeon e2603.

 

I think I will buy the R510. If I feel the need to upgrade the RAM, I won't feel bad about throwing out just 8 GB of RAM. Maybe I would be able to sell it, but I dunno.

 

How long will 8GB last with Virtualization on ESXi and Ubuntu Linux machines? 

[Electronics Wizardy]

8 minutes ago, Laggger164 said:

The R510:

 

https://pc.bazos.sk/inzerat/71145664/Predam-2U-rack-server-DELL-PowerEdge-R5108x213GHz8GB.php

 

Has 8GB of RAM, 2 Xeon e5506, 8 3.5" hard disk drive bays, 2 redundant power supplies (doesn't mention wattage tho), 4 GIGABIT ETHERNET PORTS WOOOOOOOOOOT

 

And the R710:

 

https://pc.bazos.sk/inzerat/71145550/Predam-2U-rack-server-DELL-PowerEdge-R7108x16GHz8GB.php

 

Same thing, but 6 3.5" Drive bays and 2 Xeon e2603.

 

I think I will buy the R510. If I feel the need to upgrade the RAM, I won't feel bad about throwing out just 8 GB of RAM. Maybe I would be able to sell it, but I dunno.

 

How long will 8GB last with Virtualization on ESXi and Ubuntu Linux machines? 

well get more than 8gb of ram. depending on prices on your area, id just fill it up with 8gb sticks(about 10 bucks here)

 

The r710 is a better server(better pcie, much more ram(18 vs 8 dimms).

 

How many drives do you need? If 6 are enough id probably get the r710.

 

You should also get a better raid card as the perc 6i is limited to 2tb drives.

[Laggger164]

1 minute ago, Electronics Wizardy said:

well get more than 8gb of ram. depending on prices on your area, id just fill it up with 8gb sticks(about 10 bucks here)

 

The r710 is a better server(better pcie, much more ram(18 vs 8 dimms).

 

How many drives do you need? If 6 are enough id probably get the r710.

 

You should also get a better raid card as the perc 6i is limited to 2tb drives.

I found 4GB sticks for 10€ each. Not as good, but what could I possibly use >64GB of RAM?

 

Better PCIe? What could I use that for?

 

How much could a better RAID card cost then?

[Electronics Wizardy]

5 minutes ago, Laggger164 said:

I found 4GB sticks for 10€ each. Not as good, but what could I possibly use >64GB of RAM?

 

Better PCIe? What could I use that for?

 

How much could a better RAID card cost then?

look a used dell h700. 

 

Id probably get a r510 then put a few more 4gb ddr3 ecc sticks in.