Intel Core i7 7740K

[Cracklingice]

3 minutes ago, FratStar said:

So someone educate me one this. We will have Kaby Lake -X and Skylake-X onto of Skylake-E?

Basically it seems that the top end consumer cores will be up cycled onto the enthusiast platform with the high core counts being the previous generation architecture.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

4 hours ago, Cracklingice said:

This was a great idea.  You get people into the HEDT cheaper and maybe they'll buy a new higher core count chip for it later.

This also allows gamers access to the HEDT platform and it's perks without having to suffer the lower clock speeds and generation older architecture.

Which perks would a gamer get other than paying more for a motherboard to use basically the same chip?

I thought Intel would react by smashing a 6-core into Z270, but instead they downgrade X299 to the mainstream quadcore?

 

1 hour ago, DrMikeNZ said:

If it has more PCIe lanes, then could make sense to someone.

If that's the case (and that would be the first thing to set it apart from the 7700K), then I could see niche user case. But it'll have to be relatively cheap for those users not to go to the 6800K equivalent.

 

1 hour ago, Cracklingice said:

 

Everyone seems to miss the point that high end gaming systems can now be built on the high end desktop platform without sacrificing frame rate to slower clock speeds and lower ipc.

Again: high end gaming can be built into the HEDT... so they can spend more money in getting the same? There is no reason for gamers to build on X99, and giving them worse CPUs won't make it better - someone wasting money on a X299 gaming rig may as well go full Scrooge and get any of the other X299 chips - which will have updated IPC as well.

It's not like gamers are going to fit in the PCIe-constrained scenario, since dual-GPU setups (the most you can really profit from for gaming) already run as well as they can in the mainstream platform.

 

Frankly, this is borderline i3-7350K to me. Not quite, but almost  

[Cracklingice]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Which perks would a gamer get other than paying more for a motherboard to use basically the same chip?

I thought Intel would react by smashing a 6-core into Z270, but instead they downgrade X299 to the mainstream quadcore?

 

If that's the case (and that would be the first thing to set it apart from the 7700K), then I could see niche user case. But it'll have to be relatively cheap for those users not to go to the 6800K equivalent.

 

Again: high end gaming can be built into the HEDT... so they can spend more money in getting the same? There is no reason for gamers to build on X99, and giving them worse CPUs won't make it better - someone wasting money on a X299 gaming rig may as well go full Scrooge and get any of the other X299 chips - which will have updated IPC as well.

It's not like gamers are going to fit in the PCIe-constrained scenario, since dual-GPU setups (the most you can really profit from for gaming) already run as well as they can in the mainstream platform.

 

Frankly, this is borderline i3-7350K to me. Not quite, but almost  

I can totally understand how you get to your viewpoint, but the next generation will most likely push to 6 core consumer high end and IPC improvement.  This is where it will seem more worth while to get the consumer up cycled chip. as it will basically be a 15-20% or so faster 6800k and the high core count kabylake's start at 8.  Also - with next generation GPUs we could see 8 lanes of PCIE v.3 being a bottleneck in multi gpu setups.  Something that would be eliminated with a 32 or more lane gaming high end desktop chip.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

I agree with the general mindset that this CPU would be utterly pointless on an enthusiast platform, especially when the window for such platform's valid use cases has shrunk signifincatly as a result of Ryzen.

[79wjd]

2 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Likely cheaper than any 99 motherboard I've ever seen so right off the bat: if true it's retarded.

Are X99 boards really that overpriced in Mexico? You can get an X99 board for <$180 in the US. The only way this would make any sense is if Intel priced the 7740k around $270~ (cheaper than a 7700k making the total cost for a cpu+mobo similar but slightly more to account for the better platform). Then this would make some sense as it would give people room to upgrade from what is now the top of the product stack whereas now, anyone who buys an consumer i7 has nowhere to upgrade to (without changing platforms).

 

Of course, Ryzen still kind of makes it a stupid purchase unless you absolutely need that extra performance considering the significantly cheaper price point. 

[Cracklingice]

10 minutes ago, Colonel_Gerdauf said:

I agree with the general mindset that this CPU would be utterly pointless on an enthusiast platform, especially when the window for such platform's valid use cases has shrunk signifincatly as a result of Ryzen.

Yes 4 core 8 thread will be a bit outdated in a year or two, but by then the same level of chip will be a 6 core 12 thread in the next generation.

[DarkBlade2117]

inb4 it's $340 and people will still pay $300+ for a quad core.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DarkBlade2117 said:

inb4 it's $340 and people will still pay $300+ for a quad core.

and 500+ for x299

[DarkBlade2117]

2 minutes ago, deXxterlab97 said:

and 500+ for x299

Ya.. Sorry intel but they fucked themselves. I don't think they know what to do.. They killed of their i3 lineup basically.. They can't make i3s quad cores without killing off i5s, can't make i5s 4c/8t without killing off i7s and making them 6c/12ts.

[Mira Yurizaki]

56 minutes ago, Cracklingice said:

 Also - with next generation GPUs we could see 8 lanes of PCIE v.3 being a bottleneck in multi gpu setups.

The GTX 1080 doesn't even start choking badly until you hit PCIe 1.0 x8/2.0 x4/3.0 x2. We're not going to see a bandwidth issue anytime soon.

 

The only thing PCIe bandwidth would really be needed is if the game streams a ton of assets back and forth, but considering that those assets probably comes from storage, which still has to go through RAM, it's probably not a technique used all that much.

 

EDIT: Even in multi-GPU setups, bandwidth isn't going to be a problem. At least on NVIDIA's side since SLI heavily relies on the SLI bridge more than PCIe. But in any case, the GPUs are going to get the same data sets. I also highly doubt developers are going to dabble too much in heterogeneous GPU setups, because the amount of work for the rewards seems questionable at best.

[AnonymousGuy]

1 minute ago, DarkBlade2117 said:

Ya.. Sorry intel but they fucked themselves. I don't think they know what to do.. They killed of their i3 lineup basically.. They can't make i3s quad cores without killing off i5s, can't make i5s 4c/8t without killing off i7s and making them 6c/12ts.

Cannonlake is moving to 8 cores.

[Cracklingice]

15 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Cannonlake is moving to 8 cores.

You mean 6

[79wjd]

25 minutes ago, DarkBlade2117 said:

Ya.. Sorry intel but they fucked themselves. I don't think they know what to do.. They killed of their i3 lineup basically.. They can't make i3s quad cores without killing off i5s, can't make i5s 4c/8t without killing off i7s and making them 6c/12ts.

You say that like Intel didn't know KL Pentium's would cannibalize the i3; they clearly had a good reason to do what they did, and ideas about the future.

[Misanthrope]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

Are X99 boards really that overpriced in Mexico? You can get an X99 board for <$180 in the US. The only way this would make any sense is if Intel priced the 7740k around $270~ (cheaper than a 7700k making the total cost for a cpu+mobo similar but slightly more to account for the better platform). Then this would make some sense as it would give people room to upgrade from what is now the top of the product stack whereas now, anyone who buys an consumer i7 has nowhere to upgrade to (without changing platforms).

 

Of course, Ryzen still kind of makes it a stupid purchase unless you absolutely need that extra performance considering the significantly cheaper price point. 

You can take a look here:

 

https://pcel.com/hardware/tarjetas-madre

 

1800 pesos = 100 bucks roughly so the cheapest motherboard here is roughly 316 bucks.

 

And I do understand: X99 is a high end platform and far more feature rich so it's obviously far more expensive to produce which in turns means most manufacturers are far more likely not to bother with the midrange offerings and go straight for what gives them decent margins which is mostly 300+ boards.

 

But it means that your average X99 boards is likely to end up being as expensive or more expensive than this 4 core 8 thread chip. Which makes no sense unless you can overclock the thing to 5.3 or 5.4 ghz or so to say "Ok if you gotta have pure IPC even above the 7700k this is the chip" in which case it would make sense to spend into the platform.

[79wjd]

12 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

You can take a look here:

 

https://pcel.com/hardware/tarjetas-madre

 

1800 pesos = 100 bucks roughly so the cheapest motherboard here is roughly 316 bucks.

 

And I do understand: X99 is a high end platform and far more feature rich so it's obviously far more expensive to produce which in turns means most manufacturers are far more likely not to bother with the midrange offerings and go straight for what gives them decent margins which is mostly 300+ boards.

 

But it means that your average X99 boards is likely to end up being as expensive or more expensive than this 4 core 8 thread chip. Which makes no sense unless you can overclock the thing to 5.3 or 5.4 ghz or so to say "Ok if you gotta have pure IPC even above the 7700k this is the chip" in which case it would make sense to spend into the platform.

Well, regional pricing can certainly make a difference. As I said, you can get an X99 board for $160 in the US, so $160 for an X99 board + $280 for a 7740k vs. $120 for a Z270 board + $300 for a 7700k. That would only be $20 more for the same-ish performance on a better platform with somewhere to upgrade to.

 

Of course, that is assuming that Intel prices a 7740k in such a way that it actually makes sense. If a 7740k is priced at $350 MSRP like a 7700k, then I don't see it making any sense whatsoever since a 6800k (and presumably 7800k) is only like $420 MSRP. 

[Sauron]

Honestly I'm not impressed, it's the nth hyperthreaded quad core on a more expensive platform that it can't even take full advantage of. If they keep playing the GHz race they might end up losing their advantage, they themselves have admitted that ipc and frequency improvements are reaching a dead end.

[Sauron]

42 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Well, regional pricing can certainly make a difference. As I said, you can get an X99 board for $160 in the US, so $160 for an X99 board + $280 for a 7740k vs. $120 for a Z270 board + $300 for a 7700k. That would only be $20 more for the same-ish performance on a better platform with somewhere to upgrade to.

 

Of course, that is assuming that Intel prices a 7740k in such a way that it actually makes sense. If a 7740k is priced at $350 MSRP like a 7700k, then I don't see it making any sense whatsoever since a 6800k (and presumably 7800k) is only like $420 MSRP. 

Well it most certainly isn't going to be cheaper, and in fact I expect it to be quite a bit more expensive since they will also be launching an "i5" for that platform.

 

Yes, it doesn't make any sense. It has no reason to be on x299

[79wjd]

12 minutes ago, Sauron said:

Well it most certainly isn't going to be cheaper, and in fact I expect it to be quite a bit more expensive since they will also be launching an "i5" for that platform.

 

Yes, it doesn't make any sense. It has no reason to be on x299

I don't have high hopes for it being cheaper, but they could easily make it cheaper since the cost of the X99 chipset is more; and in the past the 5820k wasn't all that much more than a 4790k, so the possibility does exist that Intel prices it well. Honestly, I feel like it would get a lot more buyers if the whole platform ended up being only a bit more expensive. Even if it's priced the same as the 7700k, then it has the problem of being so close in price to a 6800k/7800k that I can't think of any reason to buy it. 

[Hunter259]

2 hours ago, Cracklingice said:

Yes 4 core 8 thread will be a bit outdated in a year or two, but by then the same level of chip will be a 6 core 12 thread in the next generation.

Yeah no it won't. It's going to be a long time before even 4 Core 4 Thread chips aren't great anymore.

 

7740k looks really interesting IMO. If it gets all the X99 features (Metric fuck ton of PCIE, Quad Channel memory) then it would be quite the performer and it would have massive upgrade room. I kinda like this move.

[Dabombinable]

7 hours ago, WMGroomAK said:

I'm sorry as I know this is a typo, but I saw it and immediately thought Gateway... 

*facepalm* That's what happens when you buy a keyboard with cheap Taiwanese Cherry MX knock offs as switches. It occasionally suffers from bounce in its keys...if they don't decided to stop working outright.....(unless I'm using this laptop, you'll see my posts missing "q" and some times "n")

[raphidy]

I hope this means that 2066 is the new mainstream platform. Nobody with a hedt board wants a quad core. We already have z270 board with more lanes...

[Sauron]

5 hours ago, MonkeyBrainz said:

More cores will not solve the problem the games industry has right now, because its problem is that it thinks threads solve everything and that IPC gains will still be enough to make up for bad programming now and into the future when we know scalar code and SSE can't actually get much faster.

There's more a computer can do than play games, and if your main focus is gaming it doesn't really make sense to invest over 500$ in cpu and motherboard. 99% of people will be better off spending more on a graphics card. Even if you're buying the best gpu available the price jump just isn't worth it given the minimal gains.

[Sauron]

3 minutes ago, MonkeyBrainz said:

Which is also a sign that the games industry is bad at optimizing despite having a hard deadline of 16.7ms for 60fps and 33.4 for 30fps to get everything in a frame done. As hilarious as it may sound to some, the CPU can do some rendering while the AI and all else is getting done if they can't be parallelized any farther. The CPU should be able to make a clear difference. Hell, the iGPU can be doing some work while the CPU's handling logic and what all.

In theory yes but accessing the igpu (and it's slower, far away memory) would probably end up hurting a high end gpu's performance. We've kind of had a taste for that when amd tried to sell APUs on the idea that you could crossfire them with a card for cheap extra performance - it just ended up performing about the same if not worse.

 

With that said, yes, developers are lazy. It's still not an excuse to keep churning out the same old tired quad cores at nonsensical prices.

[19_blackie_73]

lemme guess, even more expensive than the 7700k plus another motherboard that's probably even more expensive

Well done Intel

 

NOT

[Cracklingice]

7 hours ago, Hunter259 said:

Yeah no it won't. It's going to be a long time before even 4 Core 4 Thread chips aren't great anymore.

 

7740k looks really interesting IMO. If it gets all the X99 features (Metric fuck ton of PCIE, Quad Channel memory) then it would be quite the performer and it would have massive upgrade room. I kinda like this move.

4/4 is already outdated.  You see it in benchmarks where they cannot keep up with the i7.  Definitely agree about the i7 on the enthusiast platform.  Though the i5 is a complete waste of time.

But the chips must feature 32+ lanes of pcie and quad channel memory or intel screwed the pooch on it.

Well, unless you can get 6ghz on air with 95% of all the chips - and I highly doubt that.