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Tunnelbear ad - Some stuff you should know

Alcatell

Hi guys!

 

My yearly VPN subscription was up for renewal recently and I decided to see what was available on the market. Tunnelbear is featured quite frequently in the videos so I had a look at them too. There's a few snags with their services that I almost didn't notice but which swayed me away from buying a subscription.

 

1. The P2P bittorrent protocol is blocked by Tunnelbear.

2. SMTP protocol for e-mail is also blocked. (may only be over port 25)

3. They offer a free subscription which gives you 500MB of free data per month. Someone smarter than me will have to explain this because it's not clear to me how they can have a "no logging" policy but at the same time offer a subscription which is data capped, which by it's nature requires logging how much data is consumed.

4. No refunds.

 

I've gone to the trouble of writing this up because in general I trust the ads LTT puts on their videos. So much that I nearly bought a subscription without doing extra research. Hope this was informative!

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6 minutes ago, Alcatell said:

Hi guys!

 

My yearly VPN subscription was up for renewal recently and I decided to see what was available on the market. Tunnelbear is featured quite frequently in the videos so I had a look at them too. There's a few snags with their services that I almost didn't notice but which swayed me away from buying a subscription.

 

1. The P2P bittorrent protocol is blocked by Tunnelbear.

2. SMTP protocol for e-mail is also blocked.

3. They offer a free subscription which gives you 500MB of free data per month. Someone smarter than me will have to explain this because it's not clear to me how they can have a "no logging" policy but at the same time offer a subscription which is data capped, which by it's nature requires logging how much data is consumed.

4. No refunds.

 

I've gone to the trouble of writing this up because in general I trust the ads LTT puts on their videos. So much that I nearly bought a subscription without doing extra research. Hope this was informative!

 

why would you want to email over a vpn anyway and bittorrent is obviously blocked to protect themselvs

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PSU tier list- 

 

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1, I'm not sure the torrent block is entirely due to potential legality of content, more due to bandwidth usage. I do use tunnelbear and performance is ok. If they opened the gates to torrents I can see either pricing rocketing, or performance plummeting. 

2, probably to prevent abuse from spammers

3, they can log data usage without logging the actual sites visited or content. I wouldn't solely rely on this anyway, unless you know for sure there is no possible mechanism for whatever country they're based in to issue a tapping order without disclosure.

4, you can use the free trial to decide if it is for you before paying

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1. That's crap, but somewhat understandable, because of the sheer number of simultaneous connections bittorrent often creates. They basically have a bunch of servers in datacenters around the world, and each server takes care of tens to hundreds of people at same time.  you may have 1000 users with a few encrypted connections ... the cpu has to do all that encryption for thousands of simultaneous connections.  A user with bittorrent would probably behave like 5-10 regular users, so it won't be as profitable for them.

 

2. SMTP blocking is understandable. Malicious users could send spam taking advantage of the different IP classes, spamming until each unique IP Tunnelbear gets blocked by anti-spam services. Getting your IP unlisted from anti-spam services is a pain in the ass and can take days for each IP, and some datacenters "fine" you a few dollars for each time the IP addresses the own are blacklisted  (you rent the IP addresses from the datacenter sometimes, along with the hardware)

If you want to send mail, you can use services like Sendgrid or mailchimp

 

3. 500 MB these days is ridiculously low. I would consider a good value around 3-5 GB at very least, except in some Asian countries where bandwidth is actually quite expensive compared to the rest of the world. 

A single page on this forum can do more than 1 MB of traffic due to big logos and images above each user's name. for example @Matt_98's picture is pointlessly 860 KB when it could be much smaller(*)

 

(*) the image is 240x240 pixels and it's scaled down in browser to 90 x 90 pixels in the forum threads and scaled to 120x120 in users' profile so at least with this default theme maybe it would have made more sense to use a much smaller 120x120pixel gif  that's only 160 KB:

 

raw2.gif.9603382ab17d019b1a2073d22aa48919.gif

This is something the forum software should do automatically when user uploads a picture.

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8 minutes ago, mariushm said:

-snip-

with the forum gif avatar thing, I'd be fine if there was a 'superlite' text based interface. like old forums - no avatars, click to load pics, little JS, etc. 

 

idk

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Yeah, Tunnelbear is shit.

It is understandable that Linus recommends them (he gets paid to recommend them) but it is weird that so many people on this forum recommends it too. If you want a VPN you should use something like PrivateInternetAccess, not Tunnelbear.

 

40 minutes ago, Alcatell said:

I've gone to the trouble of writing this up because in general I trust the ads LTT puts on their videos. So much that I nearly bought a subscription without doing extra research.

 

LTT has ads for a lot of terrible things in their videos. To their credit, but have dropped sponsors several times because of community outcry, but that's only after the ads had been airing for a while.

 

Treat the ads in LTT videos like any other ad. Just because Linus says something is good doesn't mean it is. He is being paid to say those things. Always do your own research like you did here.

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15 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

LTT has ads for a lot of terrible things in their videos. To their credit, but have dropped sponsors several times because of community outcry, but that's only after the ads had been airing for a while.

 

Treat the ads in LTT videos like any other ad. Just because Linus says something is good doesn't mean it is. He is being paid to say those things. Always do your own research like you did here.

i recall Linus doing an ad for beef jerky (Savage Jerky Co.), think it was an ad spot for the WAN show.

 

caught my eye, and i like food. so i bought a bag. not that i tried a whole lot of beef jerky, but this stuff was really good (i got the teriyaki flavor). almost gourmet. didn't even take long to ship it to my house. 

 

i then bought another bag. the same quality, the same fast shipping, same gourmet. now this is pretty legit (sriracha flavor this time). 

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1 hour ago, Alcatell said:

I've gone to the trouble of writing this up because in general I trust the ads LTT puts on their videos. So much that I nearly bought a subscription without doing extra research. Hope this was informative!

Remember that you are just another ad view, a $0.10 click/ad, a potential purchaser of one of his affiliates products, and a possible forum payer/shirt buyer. Use discretion instead of assuming that companies are trying to help you, even if they use personalized buddy-buddy formats to reel you in. It's all just business as usual.

 
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4 minutes ago, sgzUk74r3T3BCGmRJ said:

You may find it important for your VPN service to also be a DNS service, or perhaps you think that by not spelling out why DNS is important to would-be users they're failing to protect inexperienced users (I prefer a company not to medal with DNS but I can appreciate why some people would disagree).

That's an interesting point I've been meaning to research, but have not yet done so. I don't know how DNS works with VPN. Does it use the local connection for DNS? Does it route to the original DNS servers through VPN? Or does the VPN provide a separate DNS service? I had wondered if that would be a leak of potential sites accessed even if they don't get to see the traffic to the site. Not important in my usage since I mainly use it for geo-location reasons, but still a thought.

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28 minutes ago, sgzUk74r3T3BCGmRJ said:

zip

Awesome post!

 

My research in part was based on ThatOnePrivacySite's review of Tunnelbear which states SMTP is being blocked. It may be they only check for port 25 though, this I can't say for sure (i'll edit the OP).

 

Regarding the logging policy I'm not clear on how this constitutes as a vague complaint? On the front page it says in absolute clear terms (quote):

No logging

TunnelBear does NOT log any activity of users connected to our service. Period

 

In my layman understanding that simply isn't possible when you offer a datacapped service but I'd be happy if someone could explain how this can be done since I've decided against using other VPNs in the past based on the same issue.

 

Thanks for responding in such a detailed way. I've attempted to make the post in a purely informative and I feel that the points I've brought up are things a normal user may run into.

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1 hour ago, sgzUk74r3T3BCGmRJ said:

It's okay to accuse them of lying but you should try and make the case and spell out your reasoning. If that isn't your argument, then please correct me.

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to do your write-up! It appears I should put in more effort when reviewing a VPN's definition of "no logging". I will say though your last bit is unfair, as I've said twice now that I'm simply looking for an explanation, which you provided. But please do not frame my post as me accusing them of lying.

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11 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Yeah, Tunnelbear is shit.

It is understandable that Linus recommends them (he gets paid to recommend them) but it is weird that so many people on this forum recommends it too. If you want a VPN you should use something like PrivateInternetAccess, not Tunnelbear.

 

 

LTT has ads for a lot of terrible things in their videos. To their credit, but have dropped sponsors several times because of community outcry, but that's only after the ads had been airing for a while.

 

Treat the ads in LTT videos like any other ad. Just because Linus says something is good doesn't mean it is. He is being paid to say those things. Always do your own research like you did here.

I think I've asked you of someone else this but in case I didn't:

 

Why is Tunnelbear shit?    

 

I've never used it but I've thought about it since I sometimes use wifi at Starbucks or other public places.

 

 

What options such as that PrivateInternetAccess thing would you suggest and why?

 

 

11 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

I think I'll be sucking up the price and pay for Express VPN instead. They have more servers than Tunnelbear and they handle their own DNS

https://www.bestvpn.com/expressvpn-review/

https://www.vpnanalysis.com/expressvpn-review/ 

 

What's DNS and why would it matter if they do something with that themselves?

 

Are there other VPNs that are as good but cheaper?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bleedingyamato said:

I think I've asked you of someone else this but in case I didn't:

 

Why is Tunnelbear shit?    

 

I've never used it but I've thought about it since I sometimes use wifi at Starbucks or other public places.

 

What options such as that PrivateInternetAccess thing would you suggest and why?

Reasons why I dislike tunnelbear and would rather go with PIA.

1) Blocks Bittorent traffic. That alone is a good enough reason to stay away from them if you ask me.

2) Costs more than PIA. It's 40 USD vs 50 (for a year) or 7 USD vs 10 (monthly basis). So it's not a large difference, but still...

3) Does not log bandwidth usage.

4) No first party DNSes

5) No refunds

6) Encourages social media spam

7) More country options.

8) I have heard, but not tried it myself, that PIA is way faster (not an issue if you are on a slow connection), which is probably not a surprise considering they have like 100 times more servers (something like 20 vs 2000).

 

1 hour ago, Bleedingyamato said:

What's DNS and why would it matter if they do something with that themselves?

When you visit a website, you type in the name of the website, right? For example LinusTechTips.com.

Your computer does not know where to send packets to get to LinusTechTips, so it has to ask a DNS what IP LinusTechTips has. So the chain goes like this:

1) You type in an address.

2) Your computer asks a DNS what IP the computer with the name LinusTechTips.com has.

3) The DNS replies.

4) Your website (transparently to you) sends and receives data using the IP instead of the URL you typed in.

 

If your VPN provider does not use an internal DNS, the DNS requests will leave the VPN, so there is a small chance that someone could trace those requests back to you.

It shouldn't be a large risk since the DNS request should go through the VPN tunnel, but it is preferred to keep as much traffic inside the VPN for as long as possible. In theory it is possible that someone could manage to sniff your traffic and be able to map the DNS requests back to you (so they could see that you visited LinusTechTips, but not what you did there) but that risk is very small.

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1 hour ago, Bleedingyamato said:

What's DNS and why would it matter if they do something with that themselves?

 

Are there other VPNs that are as good but cheaper?

Just like what @LAwLz said. I think I'm ditching Tunnelbear and go for Express VPN because it is one of the few providers that can bypass the Great Firewall of China and allows US Netflix to be accessed. I tried the 7 day trial for iOS and and US Netflix works as long as you pick the UDP port on the iOS app. 

There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside

 

 

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2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Reasons why I dislike tunnelbear and would rather go with PIA.

1) Blocks Bittorent traffic. That alone is a good enough reason to stay away from them if you ask me.

2) Costs more than PIA. It's 40 USD vs 50 (for a year) or 7 USD vs 10 (monthly basis). So it's not a large difference, but still...

3) Does not log bandwidth usage.

4) No first party DNSes

5) No refunds

6) Encourages social media spam

7) More country options.

8) I have heard, but not tried it myself, that PIA is way faster (not an issue if you are on a slow connection), which is probably not a surprise considering they have like 100 times more servers (something like 20 vs 2000).

 

When you visit a website, you type in the name of the website, right? For example LinusTechTips.com.

Your computer does not know where to send packets to get to LinusTechTips, so it has to ask a DNS what IP LinusTechTips has. So the chain goes like this:

1) You type in an address.

2) Your computer asks a DNS what IP the computer with the name LinusTechTips.com has.

3) The DNS replies.

4) Your website (transparently to you) sends and receives data using the IP instead of the URL you typed in.

 

If your VPN provider does not use an internal DNS, the DNS requests will leave the VPN, so there is a small chance that someone could trace those requests back to you.

It shouldn't be a large risk since the DNS request should go through the VPN tunnel, but it is preferred to keep as much traffic inside the VPN for as long as possible. In theory it is possible that someone could manage to sniff your traffic and be able to map the DNS requests back to you (so they could see that you visited LinusTechTips, but not what you did there) but that risk is very small.

What does TunnelBear have to do with social media?

 

Aside from PIA are there other good options you'd suggest?

I like having choices rather than just getting/using the first thing I see.  

 

Do you know if cell phone service providers would spy on what you do while using your cell data connection?

 

I've tended to assume that was secure vs public wifi but this talk about VPNs makes me wonder if Verizon might be spying on me.  

 

2 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

Just like what @LAwLz said. I think I'm ditching Tunnelbear and go for Express VPN because it is one of the few providers that can bypass the Great Firewall of China and allows US Netflix to be accessed. I tried the 7 day trial for iOS and and US Netflix works as long as you pick the UDP port on the iOS app. 

Why would you worry if this works in China.  You're not in China...

 

What's a UDP port?  

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2 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Why would you worry if this works in China.  You're not in China...

We might go to China for vacation at fall 

2 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

What's a UDP port?

I don't know. I think it's more of a pipe in the internet where encrypted data passes by. 

There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside

 

 

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42 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

We might go to China for vacation at fall 

I don't know. I think it's more of a pipe in the internet where encrypted data passes by. 

Ewww...  Don't go to China.  A country where people aren't free to do things like browse the internet freely isn't worth going to.

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20 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Ewww...  Don't go to China.  A country where people aren't free to do things like browse the internet freely isn't worth going to.

I know but great wall of china and others... 

There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside

 

 

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7 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

What does TunnelBear have to do with social media?

Not sure if they do it anymore, but they used to do things like show people popup notifications saying "spread this on Twitter and get ###MB extra bandwidth!".

 

7 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Aside from PIA are there other good options you'd suggest?

I like having choices rather than just getting/using the first thing I see.

I am not that involved in VPN providers but from what I know, PIA is good and ExpressVPN is good. Torrentfreak does a pretty good rundown of VPN providers every year. I recommend you check it out here and read the replies from the different providers.

If I understand their article correctly, they send out questions to a bunch of VPN providers and then pick out the ones with the best answers. If that's the case then providers not on the list (like Tunnebear) either did not have satisfying answers or did not respond at all.

 

7 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Do you know if cell phone service providers would spy on what you do while using your cell data connection?

You mean if connect to the Internet by 4G? Yes they do.

 

7 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

I've tended to assume that was secure vs public wifi but this talk about VPNs makes me wonder if Verizon might be spying on me.  

Well in the battle between 4G and public WiF, 4G wins by far.

If you are on 4G, your service provider will be able to spy on you, as well as government agencies.

If you are on a public WiFi their ISP can spy on you, the government agencies can spy on you, and everyone who is at the same public WiFi can spy on you.

 

But while I love privacy and think everyone should be more involved with it and care about it, I don't think everyone should rush out and rent a VPN service. If you care about privacy then it might be a good idea, but it has drawbacks too. For example it costs money, adds latency and might not work 100% perfectly with all services.

Is the benefits worth the drawbacks? I think that varies from person to person.

 

7 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

What's a UDP port?  

UDP is a transport protocol used for networking. The two biggest ones are TCP and UDP.

It is used for things such as identifying the type of data being sent.

 

For example HTTP (for websites) has the default port 80, and uses TCP. TCP defines how the data should be handled (packets needs to be acknowledged or else they will be resent, to ensure everything gets transferred as it should), and port 80 informs everyone that it is web traffic being sent, so that for example the firewall knows that the traffic should be allowed through, and it should be sent to the web server (and the mail server knows that it is the web server program that should handle the incoming packets, and not the mail server program for example).

 

So if China has decided to block specific ports because they are used by VPNs, a VPN service provider might say "OK, we are going to use a protocol and port typically not used for VPN traffic, and therefore the great firewall of China will allow it through".

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8 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Not sure if they do it anymore, but they used to do things like show people popup notifications saying "spread this on Twitter and get ###MB extra bandwidth!".

 

I am not that involved in VPN providers but from what I know, PIA is good and ExpressVPN is good. Torrentfreak does a pretty good rundown of VPN providers every year. I recommend you check it out here and read the replies from the different providers.

If I understand their article correctly, they send out questions to a bunch of VPN providers and then pick out the ones with the best answers. If that's the case then providers not on the list (like Tunnebear) either did not have satisfying answers or did not respond at all.

 

You mean if connect to the Internet by 4G? Yes they do.

 

Well in the battle between 4G and public WiF, 4G wins by far.

If you are on 4G, your service provider will be able to spy on you, as well as government agencies.

If you are on a public WiFi their ISP can spy on you, the government agencies can spy on you, and everyone who is at the same public WiFi can spy on you.

 

But while I love privacy and think everyone should be more involved with it and care about it, I don't think everyone should rush out and rent a VPN service. If you care about privacy then it might be a good idea, but it has drawbacks too. For example it costs money, adds latency and might not work 100% perfectly with all services.

Is the benefits worth the drawbacks? I think that varies from person to person.

 

UDP is a transport protocol used for networking. The two biggest ones are TCP and UDP.

It is used for things such as identifying the type of data being sent.

 

For example HTTP (for websites) has the default port 80, and uses TCP. TCP defines how the data should be handled (packets needs to be acknowledged or else they will be resent, to ensure everything gets transferred as it should), and port 80 informs everyone that it is web traffic being sent, so that for example the firewall knows that the traffic should be allowed through, and it should be sent to the web server (and the mail server knows that it is the web server program that should handle the incoming packets, and not the mail server program for example).

 

So if China has decided to block specific ports because they are used by VPNs, a VPN service provider might say "OK, we are going to use a protocol and port typically not used for VPN traffic, and therefore the great firewall of China will allow it through".

Thank you very much for the info.  

 

I guess I'm not too worried about privacy since I don't do anything illegal or morally iffy online but it's mostly when I'm not at home on public wifi somewhere and want to access my online banking or Amazon accounts for examples.

 

I figure finding a VPN to use in those situations would be a good idea.  In case I'd want to use the wifi somewhere to conserve my cell data allowance.  I only have 2GB so if I ever used it for more than web browsing I might run out faster than would be convenient.  

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5 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

I guess I'm not too worried about privacy since I don't do anything illegal or morally iffy online but it's mostly when I'm not at home on public wifi somewhere and want to access my online banking or Amazon accounts for examples.

You could run your own VPN if you're worried about doing things like banking on open WiFi.

 

It will be free, and protect you from public WiFi vurnerabilities. It will require some configuration though.

You need the VPN server configured. A dynamic DNS will pretty much be needed. You need to port forward and you need to configure your clients correctly.

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