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DX12, what was promised and what we got .. a rainbow shitting unicorn

zMeul
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Posted (edited)

source: https://www.hardocp.com/article/2017/03/22/dx12_versus_dx11_gaming_performance_video_card_review/1

 

what was the premise behind the DX12 API? a low level platform that shifted the dependence from the CPU, draw calls

what we got?! well .. we kinda' got shit!

 

[H] did some testing:

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Rise of the Tomb Raider

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Hitman

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DeusEx: Mankind Divided

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BF1

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The Division

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Sniper Elite 4

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Ashes of the Singularity

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one thing I will say tho: The Division on DX12 has much much more faster transitions than DX11, the loading of the instances, fast traveling is very noticeable better on DX12

Edited by zMeul
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Posted

It isn't DX12s fault, it is lazy devs. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Oh good, and I was actually worried that I will have to switch to Windows 10 when I build a new rig.

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dx12 is the only reason i was able to play rust at ok fps, so im happy with it

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forgot to add Ashes

 

5 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

It isn't DX12s fault, it is lazy devs. 

you mean the "lazy devs" that developed Ashes and sucked so much AMD cock!?

how can it be 9_9

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1 hour ago, zMeul said:

forgot to add Ashes

 

you mean the "lazy devs" that developed Ashes and sucked so much AMD cock!?

how can it be 9_9

I am saying game devs, not the devs who made DX12. Most games come out on DX11 and get a DX12 patch a week latter with no gains. Obviously the game is made off of DX11. I think the problem is to use the advantages DX12 has it requires more time/learning something new that no one wants to do.

 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
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Just now, SamStrecker said:

I am saying game devs

I was referring to the game devs ;)

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Someone's a Salty Sue. 

 

DX12, like all new standards, will take time to mature. The same thing happened with DX10 and 11, ad nauseam. 

 

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10 minutes ago, zMeul said:

forgot to add Ashes

 

you mean the "lazy devs" that developed Ashes and sucked so much AMD cock!?

how can it be 9_9

Yeah, they started under Mantle with AMD but they're pretty much the only devs that I'm aware of that have put significant effort into showcasing the capabilities of Vulkan and DX12. 

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1 hour ago, zMeul said:

I was referring to the game devs ;)

What? Ashes isn't really an in depth game and they were probably paid more from AMD so they actually took there time or learned something new. Otherwise there is no motive for devs

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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I want to see them test it again with an i3.

One of the good things about DX11 is that it puts less load on the cpu in the same situation so i'm wondering if there are performance gains in a scenario with a cpu bottleneck.

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Just now, SamStrecker said:

What? Ashes isn't really an in depth game and they were probably paid more from AMD so they actually took there time or learned something new. Otherwise there is no motive for devs

that's exactly the point

Ashes is a AMD tech demo that doesn't make DX12 look good at all - that's what it was developed for and failed .. miserably

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13 minutes ago, zMeul said:

forgot to add Ashes

 

you mean the "lazy devs" that developed Ashes and sucked so much AMD cock!?

how can it be 9_9

It took years for DX11 to see any noticeable application in games, it wouldn't surprise me if it took that long for DX12 too. DX9 was the standard API for a couple of years still after DX11 was released.

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1 minute ago, samcool55 said:

I want to see them test it again with an i3.

One of the good things about DX11 is that it puts less load on the cpu in the same situation so i'm wondering if there are performance gains in a scenario with a cpu bottleneck.

are you testing CPUs or GPUs?!

the idea of a API benchmark is to apply the workload on the GPU

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I think DX12 still has the same potential it ever did, it's just more realistic to believe it may take a few years and multiple attempts to materialize. I don't think it was ever right to think DirectX 12 was going to be a night-and-day difference in the first few games to support it.

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4 minutes ago, Fetzie said:

It took years for DX11 to see any noticeable application in games, it wouldn't surprise me if it took that long for DX12 too. DX9 was the standard API for a couple of years still after DX11 was released.

I would agree with you, but there are games developed from MS' side and .... well, we all know how that went xD

 

@typographie it's almost 2y since launch and we still have same excuses :dry:

pathetic!

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Lol, nice title.

 

But I thought the whole point of Vulkan and DX12 was to let devs design their game engine to access GPU resources more directly.  A simple DX12 patch does not achieve any of that.  Doom is one of the few games to properly implement Vulkan and it saw massive perf boost.

 

Perhaps these tests prove that nobody is properly using DX12?

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32 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

It isn't DX12s fault, it is lazy devs. 

I wouldn't go as far as "lazy" just the prioritization and business rules that they might need to follow i.e. Company decides to build their own engine when most games should not be developing a brand new engine, or the company decides to use engine A instead of engine B because even though the engine B is better optimized to work with DX12 and take advantage of it's features the company has an overall deal with the other company that produces engine A and thus it's cheaper.

 

Companies do costs analysis and take a look at the hardware available so in reality even if devs where very competent and hardworking most gaming companies wouldn't spend a lot of money paying them to create an engine that performed very well for processors with more than 4 physical cores because they would take a look at hardware surveys and go "Well most of our customers only have 4 cores anyway, as long as it works well for that we're good" and they don't mind than the 15% of customers who have better CPUs from intel or nvidia basically get no benefit: they care about delivering the best game for that other 85% for the least amount of money spent overall.

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1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

I wouldn't go as far as "lazy" just the prioritization and business rules that they might need to follow i.e. Company decides to build their own engine when most games should not be developing a brand new engine, or the company decides to use engine A instead of engine B because even though the engine B is better optimized to work with DX12 and take advantage of it's features the company has an overall deal with the other company that produces engine A and thus it's cheaper.

 

Companies do costs analysis and take a look at the hardware available so in reality even if devs where very competent and hardworking most gaming companies wouldn't spend a lot of money paying them to create an engine that performed very well for processors with more than 4 physical cores because they would take a look at hardware surveys and go "Well most of our customers only have 4 cores anyway, as long as it works well for that we're good" and they don't mind than the 15% of customers who have better CPUs from intel or nvidia basically get no benefit: they care about delivering the best game for that other 85% for the least amount of money spent overall.

They should look at it in a different way and develop games that can scale from 2 cores all the way up to 20. It isn't that easy but maybe some experimenting or push

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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10 minutes ago, CostcoSamples said:

But I thought the whole point of Vulkan and DX12 was to let devs design their game engine to access GPU resources more directly.  A simple DX12 patch does not achieve any of that.  Doom is one of the few games to properly implement Vulkan and it saw massive perf boost.

you are comparing DX12 to Doom!?!?

Doom uses OpenGL and Vulkan - OpenGL is still inferior, in perf, to DX11

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6 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I wouldn't go as far as "lazy" just the prioritization and business rules that they might need to follow i.e. Company decides to build their own engine when most games should not be developing a brand new engine, or the company decides to use engine A instead of engine B because even though the engine B is better optimized to work with DX12 and take advantage of it's features the company has an overall deal with the other company that produces engine A and thus it's cheaper.

 

Companies do costs analysis and take a look at the hardware available so in reality even if devs where very competent and hardworking most gaming companies wouldn't spend a lot of money paying them to create an engine that performed very well for processors with more than 4 physical cores because they would take a look at hardware surveys and go "Well most of our customers only have 4 cores anyway, as long as it works well for that we're good" and they don't mind than the 15% of customers who have better CPUs from intel or nvidia basically get no benefit: they care about delivering the best game for that other 85% for the least amount of money spent overall.

They should pressure the engine maker to get their shit in gear then.

CPU: Intel i7 7700K | GPU: ROG Strix GTX 1080Ti | PSU: Seasonic X-1250 (faulty) | Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200Mhz 16GB | OS Drive: Western Digital Black NVMe 250GB | Game Drive(s): Samsung 970 Evo 500GB, Hitachi 7K3000 3TB 3.5" | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z270x Gaming 7 | Case: Fractal Design Define S (No Window and modded front Panel) | Monitor(s): Dell S2716DG G-Sync 144Hz, Acer R240HY 60Hz (Dead) | Keyboard: G.SKILL RIPJAWS KM780R MX | Mouse: Steelseries Sensei 310 (Striked out parts are sold or dead, awaiting zen2 parts)

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Just now, XenosTech said:

They should pressure the engine maker to get their shit in gear then.

I agree. More over, consumers should be asking Publishers to give more support to certain engines instead of targeting the poor schmuck who gets constantly overworked coding and has no say in which engine they code for (something I've been guilty of myself tbf)

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"DX12" nah man, DX11 in a wrapper.

 

True DX12 games are nowhere to be found. Really the only game that doesn't do this wrapper bullshit is Doom with Vulkan.

Ye ole' train

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51 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

It isn't DX12s fault, it is lazy devs. 

I always try to tell this to people. No one seems to care. 

 

If a game isnt built from the ground up usimg dx12 then you won't see the benefits. 

 

People are basically complaining that a Lamborghini engine doesnt perform all that well when placed in a honda civic. 

CPU: Amd 7800X3D | GPU: AMD 7900XTX

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4 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I agree. More over, consumers should be asking Publishers to give more support to certain engines instead of targeting the poor schmuck who gets constantly overworked coding and has no say in which engine they code for (something I've been guilty of myself tbf)

I've probably done this myself a couple times but I've hardly played any games that had performance issues or if I do those were long one before I even started playing it or I'm just that dumb *shrugs*

CPU: Intel i7 7700K | GPU: ROG Strix GTX 1080Ti | PSU: Seasonic X-1250 (faulty) | Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB 3200Mhz 16GB | OS Drive: Western Digital Black NVMe 250GB | Game Drive(s): Samsung 970 Evo 500GB, Hitachi 7K3000 3TB 3.5" | Motherboard: Gigabyte Z270x Gaming 7 | Case: Fractal Design Define S (No Window and modded front Panel) | Monitor(s): Dell S2716DG G-Sync 144Hz, Acer R240HY 60Hz (Dead) | Keyboard: G.SKILL RIPJAWS KM780R MX | Mouse: Steelseries Sensei 310 (Striked out parts are sold or dead, awaiting zen2 parts)

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