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KingOfSoldiers

Why don't amd or intel do this?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

What I'd rather see myself is a CPU like this :
4cores 8 threads 
20 - 30mb cache
4.7ghz+ base clock turbo upto 5ghz and a tdp around 120 - 140
Pretty much a higher base clock per core and more cache but also keeping around 4 cores cos not much more is really need then 4 cores

remember the old Pentium 4 single core at 2ghz

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1 minute ago, KingOfSoldiers said:

I know that but imagine the market on a CPU like that why not even if it for only the super rich lol

an i7-7700k has 8MB of cache.

Cache if you didn't know, is in essence insanely fast memory storage, used by the CPU to store important instructions.

Lower speed cache lowers performance of a CPU greatly.

It is not up to technological standards yet to produce such a high speed cache at non enthusiast prices.

Literally meaning whatever you mentioned, even if they could do it, would cost more than thousands of dollars each.

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Thermals

18 minutes ago, KingOfSoldiers said:

What I'd rather see myself is a CPU like this :
4cores 8 threads 
20 - 30mb cache
4.7ghz+ base clock turbo upto 5ghz and a tdp around 120 - 140
Pretty much a higher base clock per core and more cache but also keeping around 4 cores cos not much more is really need then 4 cores

remember the old Pentium 4 single core at 2ghz

Thermals and price.

 

If they released a processor with a 4.7ghz base clock they'd need an extremely beefy cooler, probably a decent watercooler actually. 6700k taps out around 5ghz on air and thats far from a 24/7 overclock. A lot of tech enthusiasts would be willing to buy but a lot of people just want a simple air cooled system that's reliable.


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Everything you described tells us nothing about performance. there's too much to take into consideration that you're ignoring.


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Just a list of my personal scores for some products, in no particular order, with brief comments. I just got the idea to do them so they aren't many for now :)

Don't take these as complete reviews or final truths - they are just my personal impressions on products I may or may not have used, summed up in a couple of sentences and a rough score. All scores take into account the unit's price and time of release, heavily so, therefore don't expect absolute performance to be reflected here.

 

-Lenovo Thinkpad X220 - [8/10]

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A durable and reliable machine that is relatively lightweight, has all the hardware it needs to never feel sluggish and has a great IPS matte screen. Downsides are mostly due to its age, most notably the screen resolution of 1366x768 and usb 2.0 ports.

 

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From my perspective, this product has no redeeming factors given its price and the competition. It is underpowered, overpriced, impractical due to its single port and is made redundant even by Apple's own iPad pro line.

 

-OnePlus X - [7/10]

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A good phone for the price. It does everything I (and most people) need without being sluggish and has no particularly bad flaws. The lack of recent software updates and relatively barebones feature kit (most notably the lack of 5GHz wifi, biometric sensors and backlight for the capacitive buttons) prevent it from being exceptional.

 

-Microsoft Surface Book 2 - [Garbage - -/10]

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Overpriced and rushed, offers nothing notable compared to the competition, doesn't come with an adequate charger despite the premium price. Worse than the Macbook for not even offering the small plus sides of having macOS. Buy a Razer Blade if you want high performance in a (relatively) light package.

 

-Intel Core i7 2600/k - [9/10]

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Quite possibly Intel's best product launch ever. It had all the bleeding edge features of the time, it came with a very significant performance improvement over its predecessor and it had a soldered heatspreader, allowing for efficient cooling and great overclocking. Even the "locked" version could be overclocked through the multiplier within (quite reasonable) limits.

 

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A pretty good product, sunk by its price (plus the extra cost of the physical keyboard and the pencil). Buy it if you don't mind the Apple tax and are looking for a very light office machine with an excellent digitizer. Particularly good for rich students. Bad for cheap tinkerers like myself.

 

 

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muh specs 

Gaming and HTPC (reparations)- ASUS 1080, MSI X99A SLI Plus, 5820k- 4.5GHz @ 1.25v, asetek based 360mm AIO, RM 1000x, 16GB memory, 750D with front USB 2.0 replaced with 3.0  ports, 2 250GB 850 EVOs in Raid 0 (why not, only has games on it), some hard drives

Screens- Acer preditor XB241H (1080p, 144Hz Gsync), LG 1080p ultrawide, (all mounted) directly wired to TV in other room

Stuff- k70 with reds, steel series rival, g13, full desk covering mouse mat

All parts black

Workstation(desk)- 3770k, 970 reference, 16GB of some crucial memory, a motherboard of some kind I don't remember, Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI, CM Storm Trooper (It's got a handle, can you handle that?), 240mm Asetek based AIO, Crucial M550 256GB (upgrade soon), some hard drives, disc drives, and hot swap bays

Screens- 3  ASUS VN248H-P IPS 1080p screens mounted on a stand, some old tv on the wall above it. 

Stuff- Epicgear defiant (solderless swappable switches), g600, moutned mic and other stuff. 

Laptop docking area- 2 1440p korean monitors mounted, one AHVA matte, one samsung PLS gloss (very annoying, yes). Trashy Razer blackwidow chroma...I mean like the J key doesn't click anymore. I got a model M i use on it to, but its time for a new keyboard. Some edgy Utechsmart mouse similar to g600. Hooked to laptop dock for both of my dell precision laptops. (not only docking area)

Shelf- i7-2600 non-k (has vt-d), 380t, some ASUS sandy itx board, intel quad nic. Currently hosts shared files, setting up as pfsense box in VM. Also acts as spare gaming PC with a 580 or whatever someone brings. Hooked into laptop dock area via usb switch

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we've reached what seems to be a ceiling in terms of frequency, and pretty much intel has done what you're referring to with a skylake i3 at 3.9GHz, which is higher than the 6700's base clock, and 100MHz below it's boost clock.

 

as for cache... you should see how much die space tha 8MB cache on an i7 takes up, and then you realise how much of what you're paying is for the cache.

 

i dont see any modern cpu coming out any time soon that sports 5GHz out the box, simply because at that speed stuff is going that fast there's more issues than just TDP.

 

to draw the picture: at 3GHz the time between two cycles is 333 picoseconds (or 0.333 nanoseconds, or 3.33*10^-10, if you prefer) by which essentially, in one clock cycle electricity can travel 10 cm, at 5GHz that's down to 6cm, and beyond that.. we're essentially hitting a point where an electrical signal cannot travel from one side of the die to the other, if we're not going in a straight line. we either need to go smaller, or we need to live with the fact that we're simply at a roof.

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3 minutes ago, manikyath said:

 

i dont see any modern cpu coming out any time soon that sports 5GHz out the box, simply because at that speed stuff is going that fast there's more issues than just TDP.

 

but mah 9590 

220 watts brah 


muh specs 

Gaming and HTPC (reparations)- ASUS 1080, MSI X99A SLI Plus, 5820k- 4.5GHz @ 1.25v, asetek based 360mm AIO, RM 1000x, 16GB memory, 750D with front USB 2.0 replaced with 3.0  ports, 2 250GB 850 EVOs in Raid 0 (why not, only has games on it), some hard drives

Screens- Acer preditor XB241H (1080p, 144Hz Gsync), LG 1080p ultrawide, (all mounted) directly wired to TV in other room

Stuff- k70 with reds, steel series rival, g13, full desk covering mouse mat

All parts black

Workstation(desk)- 3770k, 970 reference, 16GB of some crucial memory, a motherboard of some kind I don't remember, Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI, CM Storm Trooper (It's got a handle, can you handle that?), 240mm Asetek based AIO, Crucial M550 256GB (upgrade soon), some hard drives, disc drives, and hot swap bays

Screens- 3  ASUS VN248H-P IPS 1080p screens mounted on a stand, some old tv on the wall above it. 

Stuff- Epicgear defiant (solderless swappable switches), g600, moutned mic and other stuff. 

Laptop docking area- 2 1440p korean monitors mounted, one AHVA matte, one samsung PLS gloss (very annoying, yes). Trashy Razer blackwidow chroma...I mean like the J key doesn't click anymore. I got a model M i use on it to, but its time for a new keyboard. Some edgy Utechsmart mouse similar to g600. Hooked to laptop dock for both of my dell precision laptops. (not only docking area)

Shelf- i7-2600 non-k (has vt-d), 380t, some ASUS sandy itx board, intel quad nic. Currently hosts shared files, setting up as pfsense box in VM. Also acts as spare gaming PC with a 580 or whatever someone brings. Hooked into laptop dock area via usb switch

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Just now, Syntaxvgm said:

but mah 9590 

220 watts brah 

is 4.7GHz out the box ;)

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Just now, manikyath said:

is 4.7GHz out the box ;)

If I can get my 5820k to 4.5GHz at 1.25 volts, I'm sure they can bin the right quad core to run at 5GHz out of the box and not melt things if they wanted to do what AMD did there. Which would be dumb. And not practical. Like the 9590


muh specs 

Gaming and HTPC (reparations)- ASUS 1080, MSI X99A SLI Plus, 5820k- 4.5GHz @ 1.25v, asetek based 360mm AIO, RM 1000x, 16GB memory, 750D with front USB 2.0 replaced with 3.0  ports, 2 250GB 850 EVOs in Raid 0 (why not, only has games on it), some hard drives

Screens- Acer preditor XB241H (1080p, 144Hz Gsync), LG 1080p ultrawide, (all mounted) directly wired to TV in other room

Stuff- k70 with reds, steel series rival, g13, full desk covering mouse mat

All parts black

Workstation(desk)- 3770k, 970 reference, 16GB of some crucial memory, a motherboard of some kind I don't remember, Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI, CM Storm Trooper (It's got a handle, can you handle that?), 240mm Asetek based AIO, Crucial M550 256GB (upgrade soon), some hard drives, disc drives, and hot swap bays

Screens- 3  ASUS VN248H-P IPS 1080p screens mounted on a stand, some old tv on the wall above it. 

Stuff- Epicgear defiant (solderless swappable switches), g600, moutned mic and other stuff. 

Laptop docking area- 2 1440p korean monitors mounted, one AHVA matte, one samsung PLS gloss (very annoying, yes). Trashy Razer blackwidow chroma...I mean like the J key doesn't click anymore. I got a model M i use on it to, but its time for a new keyboard. Some edgy Utechsmart mouse similar to g600. Hooked to laptop dock for both of my dell precision laptops. (not only docking area)

Shelf- i7-2600 non-k (has vt-d), 380t, some ASUS sandy itx board, intel quad nic. Currently hosts shared files, setting up as pfsense box in VM. Also acts as spare gaming PC with a 580 or whatever someone brings. Hooked into laptop dock area via usb switch

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9 minutes ago, Syntaxvgm said:

If I can get my 5820k to 4.5GHz at 1.25 volts, I'm sure they can bin the right quad core to run at 5GHz out of the box and not melt things if they wanted to do what AMD did there. Which would be dumb. And not practical. Like the 9590

the thing is, you can do that, but it doesnt come "out the box" like that.

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Just now, manikyath said:

the thing is, you can do that, but it doesnt come "out the box" like that.

cause that would be stupid. Like a 9590


muh specs 

Gaming and HTPC (reparations)- ASUS 1080, MSI X99A SLI Plus, 5820k- 4.5GHz @ 1.25v, asetek based 360mm AIO, RM 1000x, 16GB memory, 750D with front USB 2.0 replaced with 3.0  ports, 2 250GB 850 EVOs in Raid 0 (why not, only has games on it), some hard drives

Screens- Acer preditor XB241H (1080p, 144Hz Gsync), LG 1080p ultrawide, (all mounted) directly wired to TV in other room

Stuff- k70 with reds, steel series rival, g13, full desk covering mouse mat

All parts black

Workstation(desk)- 3770k, 970 reference, 16GB of some crucial memory, a motherboard of some kind I don't remember, Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI, CM Storm Trooper (It's got a handle, can you handle that?), 240mm Asetek based AIO, Crucial M550 256GB (upgrade soon), some hard drives, disc drives, and hot swap bays

Screens- 3  ASUS VN248H-P IPS 1080p screens mounted on a stand, some old tv on the wall above it. 

Stuff- Epicgear defiant (solderless swappable switches), g600, moutned mic and other stuff. 

Laptop docking area- 2 1440p korean monitors mounted, one AHVA matte, one samsung PLS gloss (very annoying, yes). Trashy Razer blackwidow chroma...I mean like the J key doesn't click anymore. I got a model M i use on it to, but its time for a new keyboard. Some edgy Utechsmart mouse similar to g600. Hooked to laptop dock for both of my dell precision laptops. (not only docking area)

Shelf- i7-2600 non-k (has vt-d), 380t, some ASUS sandy itx board, intel quad nic. Currently hosts shared files, setting up as pfsense box in VM. Also acts as spare gaming PC with a 580 or whatever someone brings. Hooked into laptop dock area via usb switch

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Just now, Syntaxvgm said:

cause that would be stupid. Like a 9590

exactly my point :D

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Just now, manikyath said:

exactly my point :D

EXACTLY MINE ಠ益ಠ


muh specs 

Gaming and HTPC (reparations)- ASUS 1080, MSI X99A SLI Plus, 5820k- 4.5GHz @ 1.25v, asetek based 360mm AIO, RM 1000x, 16GB memory, 750D with front USB 2.0 replaced with 3.0  ports, 2 250GB 850 EVOs in Raid 0 (why not, only has games on it), some hard drives

Screens- Acer preditor XB241H (1080p, 144Hz Gsync), LG 1080p ultrawide, (all mounted) directly wired to TV in other room

Stuff- k70 with reds, steel series rival, g13, full desk covering mouse mat

All parts black

Workstation(desk)- 3770k, 970 reference, 16GB of some crucial memory, a motherboard of some kind I don't remember, Micomsoft SC-512N1-L/DVI, CM Storm Trooper (It's got a handle, can you handle that?), 240mm Asetek based AIO, Crucial M550 256GB (upgrade soon), some hard drives, disc drives, and hot swap bays

Screens- 3  ASUS VN248H-P IPS 1080p screens mounted on a stand, some old tv on the wall above it. 

Stuff- Epicgear defiant (solderless swappable switches), g600, moutned mic and other stuff. 

Laptop docking area- 2 1440p korean monitors mounted, one AHVA matte, one samsung PLS gloss (very annoying, yes). Trashy Razer blackwidow chroma...I mean like the J key doesn't click anymore. I got a model M i use on it to, but its time for a new keyboard. Some edgy Utechsmart mouse similar to g600. Hooked to laptop dock for both of my dell precision laptops. (not only docking area)

Shelf- i7-2600 non-k (has vt-d), 380t, some ASUS sandy itx board, intel quad nic. Currently hosts shared files, setting up as pfsense box in VM. Also acts as spare gaming PC with a 580 or whatever someone brings. Hooked into laptop dock area via usb switch

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3 hours ago, KingOfSoldiers said:

What I'd rather see myself is a CPU like this :
4cores 8 threads 
20 - 30mb cache
4.7ghz+ base clock turbo upto 5ghz and a tdp around 120 - 140
Pretty much a higher base clock per core and more cache but also keeping around 4 cores cos not much more is really need then 4 cores

remember the old Pentium 4 single core at 2ghz

see 4 core and 8 threads with that decent TDP would be cool but the biggest thing is cache if they could squeeze a lot more on that would be great plus clock speed is not a real useful number without per clock performance data.


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Time Spy=5519

Cinebench R15 (CPU= 509cb) (OpenGL=118.28 FPS)

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That cache takes up a considerable amount of space. Nearly one quarter of the 7700k die is just 8mb of l3 cache. 

Making a cpu with 30mb cache would not only considerably increase die area, it would make the whole design considerably more complex. There are rules to how cache behaves. 

 

Assuming two pools of cache running at the same T-rate:

-Doubling capacity doubles latency

-Making multi way cache decreases latency, but needs better branch prediction to avoid landing a cache miss, as you are essentially splitting the pool into multiple parts and reading them in parallel. 

-Better branch prediction algorithms/circuitry is insanely complicated and expensive to develop, and takes up die space. 

 

Cpus are incredibly sensitive to latency due to the nature of their workloads ( for example, gpus give up latency for throughput as it suits their workloads better). This was a huge issue for bulldozer, and is an issue for ryzen atm ( high latency ram access). 

 

Plus, there's the fact that workloads needing only 4 cores typically don't need much cache anyway. You're better off adding more cache to your high core count SKU's. 

 

Plus, Intel's main consumer market isn't enthusiasts. It's OEM's selling to mainstream consumers. 

Intel would rather sell 65-91w parts in those cases than bump up clocks well past the efficiency point of their chips and increase tdp to 140w.

The average consumer wouldn't notice the performance bump but would notice the extra heat, power and size their pc uses. 

 

Sure the demand is out there, but not enough to justify a special SKU. 


AMD Ryzen 7 3.8ghz at 1.3V Corsair vengeance LPX 8GB 2800mhz @ 3200mhz CAS 16 + 2*4GB micron ballistics @ 3200mhz cas 16 ;Gigabyte ga-ab350-Gaming 3; cooler master nepton 240M ; CF r9 290x tri x + r9 290 tri x ; CX750M PSU ; SPEC 03 case with 9 120mm fans ; windows 10 64 bit 

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7 hours ago, KingOfSoldiers said:

What I'd rather see myself is a CPU like this :
4cores 8 threads 
20 - 30mb cache
4.7ghz+ base clock turbo upto 5ghz and a tdp around 120 - 140
Pretty much a higher base clock per core and more cache but also keeping around 4 cores cos not much more is really need then 4 cores

remember the old Pentium 4 single core at 2ghz

Other than the logistics of implementing this physically, you don't want to have a large cache on a small processor. It would defeat the purpose of having a cache and slow the processor down for quick retrieval.


CPU: Core i-7 7700k @ 5.1 GHZ | Ram: 16GB DDR4 3000 Dominator Platinum | Graphics: EVGA 1080Ti FE (Watercooled) OC @ 2100Mhz|  Mobo: MSI Mpower Z170A Gaming Titanium |Storage:Samsung 850 Pro 250gb|PSU:EVGA SuperNova P2 1000 Watts|Monitor: Predator XB271HU & Asus VN248H-P |Case: NZXT H440 Matt Black| Pictures

 

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