MicroSoft is actively blocking W7/8/8.1 Windows Updates on KabyLake and Ryzen systems

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

It totally still is, it's still free if you use accessibility software. You just have to press a little button that says "Yes, I totally use accessibility software! Gimme-gimme-gimme!".

 

If I had to guess, this is a deterrent to prevent people from buying Kaby lake systems, installing a pirated copy of Windows 7 and upgrading it to a legitimate copy of Windows 10.

that's a workaround for a feature that's not normally avaialble

[Sniperfox47]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Only for the free update from Windows 7/8 to 10 via the GWX applet, otherwise it's a stand alone program that can either update the current system, download an ISO, or create a bootable USB.

 

Yeah, which means anyone on Windows 7 or 8 with Kaby Lake who want to take advantage of the free update will be blocked.

[Sniperfox47]

Just now, zMeul said:

that's a workaround for a feature that's not normally avaialble

It's not a workaround... It's an officially supported upgrade path offered by Microsoft...

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

It's not a workaround... It's an officially supported upgrade path offered by Microsoft...

no, it's a workaround - that feature is designated specifically for assistive technologies, not for your average joe

and I highly doubt that people who bought Kaby/Ryzen systems bought W7/8/8.1 licences - I don't think they're still available in retail

[Sniperfox47]

Just now, zMeul said:

no, it's a workaround- that feature is designated specifically for assistive technologies, not for your average joe

and I highly doubt that people who bought Kaby/Ryzen systems bought W7/8/8.1 licences - I don't think they're still available in retail

You're absolutely right. Hence my comment about using it as a way to combat piracy, since Windows 7 has a working undetectable piracy method (OEM keys) and Windows 10 does not (other than upgrading from a pirated copy of Windows 7).

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Yeah, which means anyone on Windows 7 or 8 with Kaby Lake who want to take advantage of the free update will be blocked.

No, it won't. The stand alone program doesn't run through Windows Update at all. It's a self contained file downloader and a Windows 10 variant of the Windows 7 Bootable Media creator.

 

The GWX applet was that little popup that occured when Windows 10 first rolled out, it was installed via update, and removed via update. It's completely absent on the Windows 7 Pro install that I just finished updating and moved over to my new NVMe drive earlier today. If I want to download Windows 10, I need to use the media creation tool, and I'm not a magical exception.

[zMeul]

Just now, Sniperfox47 said:

You're absolutely right. Hence my comment about using it as a way to combat piracy, since Windows 7 has a working undetectable piracy method (OEM keys) and Windows 10 does not (other than upgrading from a pirated copy of Windows 7).

sorry mate, W10 is piratable just as W7 was, even the UEFI version

[Sniperfox47]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

No, it won't. The stand alone program doesn't run through Windows Update at all. It's a self contained file downloader and a Windows 10 variant of the Windows 7 Bootable Media creator.

 

The GWX applet was that little popup that occured when Windows 10 first rolled out, it was installed via update, and removed via update. It's completely absent on the Windows 7 Pro install that I just finished updating and moved over to my new NVMe drive earlier today. If I want to download Windows 10, I need to use the media creation tool, and I'm not a magical exception.

The free update tool and the media creation tool are not the same tool. The free update tool is a frontend that relies on Windows update, the same as the GWX applet did.

 

4 minutes ago, zMeul said:

sorry mate, W10 is piratable just as W7 was, even the UEFI version

 

Not in an undetectable fashion like Windows 7 was. KMS is completely detectable.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Sniperfox47 said:

The free update tool and the media creation tool are not the same tool. The free update tool is a frontend that relies on Windows update, the same as the GWX applet did.

The current update tool and the media creation tool are the same tool. GWX was the only front end, and Microsoft took it offline completely as they downsized the Windows 7 Update servers to free up those resources for Windows 10 updates and downloads.

[AlTech]

1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Really?  This seems totally in character imo

This is where I point out that they wanted to do this (topic at hand) with Skylake and it failed epicly.

[Syntaxvgm]

there's gotta be some kinda registry edit or something to make WU think you are running something different? 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Syntaxvgm said:

there's gotta be some kinda registry edit or something to make WU think you are running something different? 

Likely a CPUID spoof, swap the Kaby name with the closest equivalent Skylake name. Wouldn't be hard, maybe a good bit of time before someone actually pushes the hack online.

[Tam3n]

Ouch, I can understand all the "not officially supported", but to intentionally block the updates is just dick move. They probably justify it with something like "new code is not safe for unsupported processors because it hasn't been fully validated for those".

[sgloux3470]

What's wrong with them not pushing updates to hardware that isn't supported by the OS?

 

 

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, sgloux3470 said:

What's wrong with them not pushing updates to hardware that isn't supported by the OS?

every-fucking-thing

[Drak3]

9 minutes ago, Tam3n said:

Ouch, I can understand all the "not officially supported", but to intentionally block the updates is just dick move. They probably justify it with something like "new code is not safe for unsupported processors because it hasn't been fully validated for those".

The problem with your line of thinking is that, they could very easily push an update that triggers a problem in systems that just so happen to run Kaby or Ryzen, but not other processors, from simply not recognizing what the 7700K is - a tweaked 6700K, or that Ryzen isn't Bulldozer.

4 minutes ago, sgloux3470 said:

What's wrong with them not pushing updates to hardware that isn't supported by the OS?

 

 

According to LTT members, and those that don't actually understand the grittier details of Windows or how software development actually works - everything, provided that it occurs with software that tickles their fancy. If it were Windows 10, nobody here would give a shit. In fact, they might even celebrate that.

[Tam3n]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

The problem with your line of thinking is that, they could very easily push an update that triggers a problem in systems that just so happen to run Kaby or Ryzen, but not other processors, from simply not recognizing what the 7700K is - a tweaked 6700K.

I don't quite understand what you want to point out, but I didn't mean that their possible justification was the real reason, rather just an poor excuse they might use...

[Syntaxvgm]

11 minutes ago, sgloux3470 said:

What's wrong with them not pushing updates to hardware that isn't supported by the OS?

 

 

because they are only doing this to move people to windows 10. 

[Drak3]

Just now, Tam3n said:

I don't quite understand what you want to point out, but I didn't mean that their possible justification was the real reason, rather just an poor excuse they might use...

It might not be a poor excuse. Microsoft isn't validating Windows 7 updates for Kaby or Ryzen, it'd be a waste of money for them. If one of their updates does inadvertently cause issues with a Kaby or Ryzen system, but not systems using preceding processors, blame is put on Microsoft despite the fact that Windows 7 and 8 don't support Ryzen and KAby, and Kaby/Ryzen don't support 7/8.

 

Basically, they're preventing a fire rather than putting it out.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

23 minutes ago, sgloux3470 said:

What's wrong with them not pushing updates to hardware that isn't supported by the OS?

 

Source says they're disabling all updates for Win 7 or 8 with newer gen chips. Many of these updates have no relation towards hardware. 

 

Most likely scenario is someone with a skylake cpu on win 7 will get those important security updates. The ones with kabylake will not. 

 

Quote

When you try to scan or download updates through Windows Update, you receive the following error message:

 

Well it only says "through Windows Update" no reason to be unable to install it through other means. 

[zMeul]

24 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

According to LTT members, and those that don't actually understand the grittier details of Windows or how software development actually works - everything, provided that it occurs with software that tickles their fancy. If it were Windows 10, nobody here would give a shit. In fact, they might even celebrate that.

funny how a 7y old OS works OK with a brand new CPU and suddenly you find "issues" that might poop down the line

or haven't you forgotten that Skylake isn't actually fully supported by W7 and yet .. it works

 

what's the difference between Sky and Kaby? Kaby is just a refined Skylake - so what's the reason for MS to stop Windows Updates on Kaby machines?

 

here are few facts that you blatantly ignore:

• W7 extended support will end in 2020
• W8(.1) mainstream support ends 2018 and extended support ends 2023

W7 is in extended support, but W8.1? mainstream support hasn't ended

your excuses are utter crap and I have no respect for people like you who defend these anti-consumer practices

[alamox]

if any other company owned windows and wanted to do so much change on the OS as microsoft is doing rightnow, they would have offered windows 10 for free, then launched a paying version of windows classic(open), but microsoft knows that even if they did this, ppl will buy the paying version to have an open OS,rather than get a free adware OS, that is windows 10.

but microsoft lacks any integrity, and they know the changes they are making to the OS are not welcomed, and yet they keep pushing it down your throat, just because they have the monopoly over mainstream gaming OS( which they don't hesitate a second to take it hostage in order to to force user's hands )

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

here are few facts that you blatantly ignore:

• W7 extended support will end in 2020
• W8(.1) mainstream support ends 2018 and extended support ends 2023

Except neither of those actually mean that Microsoft is going to support every bit of new hardware. Mainstream support is feature and design updates/changes, non-security hot fixes, and warranty claim support.

 

6 minutes ago, zMeul said:

or haven't you forgotten that Skylake isn't actually fully supported by W7 and yet .. it works

Microsoft retroactively supported Windows 7 on Skylake, largely for 2 reasons:

OEMs were still selling Windows 7 OEM licenses on their machines when Skylake rolled out to them, and it was before Microsoft's deadline on when they could be sold.

Intel never stated that Windows 7 or 8 would be unsupported on Skylake, they did with Kaby.

 

7 minutes ago, zMeul said:

funny how a 7y old OS works OK with a brand new CPU and suddenly you find "issues" that might poop down the line

8 minutes ago, zMeul said:

what's the difference between Sky and Kaby? Kaby is just a refined Skylake - so what's the reason for MS to stop Windows Updates on Kaby machines?

Aside from you proving me right in the "suddenly you find issues" quote, regarding software development and how it actually works, issues can arise from an unrecognized CPUID, or from trying to force use a hardware component incorrectly.

 

Kaby lake isn't just a refined Skylake, it's a hardware feature update, with the most notable being hardware support for H.265 4K HDR encoding. It requires validation independent of Skylake, which is a waste of Microsoft's time and money, especially when retail licenses aren't sold outside of refurb OEM COAs and small amounts of leftover stock, OEM licenses are only sold with Skylake and earlier/ Bulldozer systems.

 

Neither Windows 7 or 8 are supported on Kaby Lake, nor is Windows 7 supported on Ryzen. It doesn't matter that these architectures are damn near identical to Haswell, Broadwell, and Skylake, because they're different enough.

[jaggysnake57]

i dont get the problem....they have said that the latests chips wouldnt support older versions of windows. its not like they have blind sided people with this info.

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, Technicolors said:

still rocking haswell / devil's canyon, though that may change quite soon.. 

 

---

 

honestly this support page feels like this

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Support/Nintendo-Switch/Troubleshooting/There-are-black-or-bright-dots-on-the-Nintendo-Switch-screen-that-do-not-go-away-or-there-are-dark-or-light-patches-on-the-screen-/There-are-black-or-bright-dots-on-the-Nintendo-Switch-screen-that-do-not-go-away-or-there-are-dark-or-light-patches-on-the-screen--1201195.html

 

 

*facepalm* If there is more than 1 faulty pixel, the screen is faulty.