AMD Pinnacle Ridge, next gen Zen (2)

[WMGroomAK]

2 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Hopefully with zen2 they don't have the two CCX thing going on and make it so that everything is interconnected.

I'm fairly sure they're going to operate with multiple CCX as that is the direction AMD has decided to take with the whole Zen Architecture.  My basic understanding is that their plans are for the ability to connect CCXes and/or GPUs through the 'Infinity Fabric' Hypertransport that they're implementing.  Basically giving them the flexibility to adjust their dies with however many CCXes or GPU cores they might need.  Hopefully as the system matures, this HT system will show improved performance... 

[DoctorWho1975]

I'm actually excited about Zen 2.. assuming I'm still working next year I will be looking to do another build. Be interesting if they can fix some of the gaming issues as that is what I predominantly do. Zen was a pretty damned good 1st swing, let's see what they can do to ratchet up the performance.. but as long as Intel keeps fleecing the frack out of people with minimal improvements AMD will be a factor.

[DocSwag]

2 hours ago, zMeul said:

seriously doubt that

• the Pinacle Ridge arch seems to be Zen still
• AMD said with own moths Zen is on 4y cycle
• to be released in 2018, means the Pinacle Ridge is already taped out; unless they delay it couple of months I don't see any major changes to it
• when Ryzen launched, AMD seemed to be unaware of the major issues discovered during reviews

By that I meant a revision of Zen. I know a completely overhaul won't be due for 4 years but this would only be an improvement and not a completely overhaul of the architecture. And Zen taped out only around 6 months before so it's still possible that it's still in development.

[DocSwag]

1 hour ago, WMGroomAK said:

I'm fairly sure they're going to operate with multiple CCX as that is the direction AMD has decided to take with the whole Zen Architecture.  My basic understanding is that their plans are for the ability to connect CCXes and/or GPUs through the 'Infinity Fabric' Hypertransport that they're implementing.  Basically giving them the flexibility to adjust their dies with however many CCXes or GPU cores they might need.  Hopefully as the system matures, this HT system will show improved performance... 

It's a fix they could implement that could improve performance in some workloads though, and they've probably recognized that using multiple CCXs results in much higher latency and lower bandwidth, so a single CCX design would be much better. Just an idea I had that they might want to do.

[2FA]

3 hours ago, zMeul said:

seriously doubt that

• the Pinacle Ridge arch seems to be Zen still
• AMD said with own moths Zen is on 4y cycle
• to be released in 2018, means the Pinacle Ridge is already taped out; unless they delay it couple of months I don't see any major changes to it
• when Ryzen launched, AMD seemed to be unaware of the major issues discovered during reviews

I'm not sure about it but AMD might be using the Zen name like Intel uses the Core name.

[Techstorm970]

2 hours ago, Kloaked said:

I'm glad AMD sent out their moths to tell us about Zen.

[Techstorm970]

11 minutes ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

I'm not sure about it but AMD might be using the Zen name like Intel uses the Core name.

It's certainly possible.

[Belgarathian]

3 hours ago, Flavio hc 16 said:

why not? ps4 pro has 2 rx 460 in crossfire in it plus a low power 8 core bulldozer cpu with a power consumption of 150w , why the cannot do that for new tech and sell the to normal people

It's not a SoC however. 

[leadeater]

9 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Hopefully with zen2 they don't have the two CCX thing going on and make it so that everything is interconnected.

CCX is a central part of the Zen architecture, it isn't going away. Zen+ will work on refining things like CCX interconnection bandwidth and latency, however as it stands right now the performance impact of cross CCX communication isn't that high. Tests that show large performance variations when testing cross CCX configurations is more likely a software issue than hardware/CCXs themselves.

 

Most tests show minor performance loss when doing that sort of testing, it is there and working or reducing that is something I want to see. I'm sure there is much more than can be improved in the Zen architecture than just the CCX interconnection.

 

[leadeater]

7 hours ago, Tomsen said:

1) I agree that it seems like Pinacle Ridge will be running Zen[0], they would most likely have changed the naming (to zen+ or whatever) if that wasn't the case.

If there is no revision to the Zen architecture in Pinacle Ridge what on earth is the point and what are the changes? Only thing I can think of is an updated memory controller?

 

Something doesn't get a new code name if it's not different in some way.

 

7 hours ago, Tomsen said:

2) I think they said 5 year cycle. That doesn't mean that zen[0] will have 4 year, but that the zen-family ( zen[0], zen[1]/+, zen[2]/++ ) will have a 4/5 year cycle.

Correct, what AMD was saying is that they will be developing the Zen architecture over that time frame and will also keep the same socket and chipset. This may limit the potential performance gains over that time, or it may not, but at least a motherboard you buy now will work with a Zen CPU in 4 years time.

[DocSwag]

12 minutes ago, leadeater said:

CCX is a central part of the Zen architecture, it isn't going away. Zen+ will work on refining things like CCX interconnection bandwidth and latency, however as it stands right now the performance impact of cross CCX communication isn't that high. Tests that show large performance variations when testing cross CCX configurations is more likely a software issue than hardware/CCXs themselves.

 

Most tests show minor performance loss when doing that sort of testing, it is there and working or reducing that is something I want to see. I'm sure there is much more than can be improved in the Zen architecture than just the CCX interconnection.

 

Though I do recall that PcPer did some testing and the intercore latency between same core was around 20ns, between cores in the same CCX was 40ns, and different CCXs was over 100ns. Still not entirely sure though whether it does make a huge difference, though I guess it does make sense that there are probably better things for AMD to worry about. 

[Brehohn]

I guess you could say I'm hoping that this is AMD's.....PINNACLE in the market.

[Tomsen]

3 hours ago, leadeater said:

If there is no revision to the Zen architecture in Pinacle Ridge what on earth is the point and what are the changes? Only thing I can think of is an updated memory controller?

Looking back at my statement, I can see the confusion. I do believe that AMD will release an revise zen architecture in 2018 (maybe early 2019), what I meant to say was that it is odd the still just named it "zen" in their roadmap. But then again, this is a supposed leaked internal roadmap, so I don't really have much to say about it.

 

Just to speculate what could have changed if not the zen architecture itself: Memory controller, improved fabric between CCX, perhaps rerun on improved 14nm (or 10nm  ) node, improved co-processors, etc just to name a few things.

 

Doubt it, would simply be a waste instead of getting the successor out.

[Humbug]

10 hours ago, DoctorWho1975 said:

I'm actually excited about Zen 2.. assuming I'm still working next year I will be looking to do another build. Be interesting if they can fix some of the gaming issues as that is what I predominantly do. Zen was a pretty damned good 1st swing, let's see what they can do to ratchet up the performance.. but as long as Intel keeps fleecing the frack out of people with minimal improvements AMD will be a factor.

AMD launched the bulldozer fx-8150 in end 2011. Then by end 2012 they were able to launch improved piledriver fx-8350. That was a very solid iteration and was able to deliver noticeable although not big improvements in clocks, power consumption, ipc. We will probably get something similar with Zen2.

 

 

[Prysin]

20 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Hopefully with zen2 they don't have the two CCX thing going on and make it so that everything is interconnected.

no they wont. It will be CCX, interconnects will be improved. clocks and some IPC improvements. Die size will change marginally (sub 20mm2 up or down). L3 cache will be reworked slightly. L1 redesigned to help improve response and latency.

 

i DO pray that they add 32 PCIe Gen3 lanes, OR 24 Gen3 lanes for "graphics/Slots" and 8 Gen3 lanes specifically for M.2 storage. One can dream though, not happening. Lisa Su seems to personally think 16 is plenty.

[Prysin]

7 hours ago, Tomsen said:

Looking back at my statement, I can see the confusion. I do believe that AMD will release an revise zen architecture in 2018 (maybe early 2019), what I meant to say was that it is odd the still just named it "zen" in their roadmap. But then again, this is a supposed leaked internal roadmap, so I don't really have much to say about it.

 

Just to speculate what could have changed if not the zen architecture itself: Memory controller, improved fabric between CCX, perhaps rerun on improved 14nm (or 10nm  ) node, improved co-processors, etc just to name a few things.

 

Doubt it, would simply be a waste instead of getting the successor out.

original "leaks" of ZEN roadmaps last summer listed "ZEN2" as "Zen+". just FYI

[DocSwag]

2 hours ago, Prysin said:

no they wont. It will be CCX, interconnects will be improved. clocks and some IPC improvements. Die size will change marginally (sub 20mm2 up or down). L3 cache will be reworked slightly. L1 redesigned to help improve response and latency.

 

i DO pray that they add 32 PCIe Gen3 lanes, OR 24 Gen3 lanes for "graphics/Slots" and 8 Gen3 lanes specifically for M.2 storage. One can dream though, not happening. Lisa Su seems to personally think 16 is plenty.

Yeah, realized that doing so probably wasn't the best thing they could do ATM. It definitely would be nice to have more pcie lanes, for sure. 20 is a bit lacking for such a high end CPU, 24-32 would be a better number,

[cj09beira]

23 hours ago, DocSwag said:

Hopefully with zen2 they don't have the two CCX thing going on and make it so that everything is interconnected.

They will probably just improve it by imcreasing the clocks of the connection.the problem right now is that that interconnect is running at ddr4 speeds, and thats why theres such a difference when running higher frequency memory

[Okjoek]

23 hours ago, Phate.exe said:

A quad core apu with RX 470 performance would be the ultimate console-killer setup for me.  Put it in a tiny case with a decent cooler, use the space that otherwise would have gone to the GPU to stuff a 2x120 rad inside.  Add an SSD or two.

 

And that's pretty much it.  1080p60 on high/ultra settings, in a box the size of a modern game console.

I'm curious if Raven Ridge performance will be as good as a discrete RX 460. And ontop of that what kind of VRAM will it use? If it's not as good as a discrete RX 460 I'd just get a low profile RX 460.

[Tomsen]

6 hours ago, Prysin said:

original "leaks" of ZEN roadmaps last summer listed "ZEN2" as "Zen+". just FYI

I'm aware of that, and it was actually a public marketing slide they showed at hotchips.

 

 

[Citadelen]

18 hours ago, leadeater said:

-snip-

It lists them as Zen cores in the slide, not to mention AMD gave the 9xxx series its own name, they were codenamed Centurion, these are probably just Ryzen CPUs with a clock speed bump, maybe some efficacy gains. It would make sense considering the naming, Summit Ridge being the first release, then Pinnacle Ridge meaning it is a refined Summit Ridge part.

[Thony]

Feels like yesterday "This generation will last until 2020"...

[Doobeedoo]

Good to keep momentum with new iterations until next new big architecture. Cache and CCX aside, in short I'd guess it will be an IPC and clocks improvement mainly. Improving IPC noticeably with each iterations will be good and hopefully clocks will be much better too.

It's expected for Zen+/Zen2 to be on GloFo 7 nm FinFET process so that's very interesting node jump.

 

As far as APUs with Zen and Vega core those are going to be awesome APU for sure. Specially on laptops.