AMD speaks on W10 scheduler and Ryzen

[LAwLz]

Good to see AMD confirm this as well. Maybe this will make people stop and think "maybe everything I read on the Internet isn't true", before parroting whatever they read on reddit, because I have seen a severe lack of that when it come to Ryzen.

I got berated by several people when I said "Issues with the scheduler hasn't been confirmed, and even if they find some issue you shouldn't expect massive performance increases that would put Ryzen 7 on par with the 7700K for gaming".

 

People just need to face the facts about how Ryzen performs and stop wishing for some magical fix to come out in the future.

[Vode]

8 hours ago, MageTank said:

Where is that 14% number? We see Broadwell giving a 3% improvement, and Skylake/Kaby giving another 2-3% on top of that.

Probably all the SKUs nr just desktop. There are bigger gains in the low power SKUs especially below 20W.

[Bouzoo]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Well I don't exactly keep count of anyone been proven wrong ever, what would be the point of that? Anyway I know of more than two times he's been completely wrong, but so what no body is correct all the time. I'm not even sure why that even matters?

 

Intelligence or self belief in ones point of view does not excuse anyone from following the Community Standards, particularly in his case being civil to all members of the forum and not constantly trying to belittle everyone.

 

And just so you know I actually advocated for him to not be permanently banned.

 

Edit:

Take it to PM if you want to discuss it further, not exactly on topic to the thread.

It was all /s based on things he deemed important. I suppose I have failed since it was not obvious.

/derail

[Fetzie]

33 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Good to see AMD confirm this as well. Maybe this will make people stop and think "maybe everything I read on the Internet isn't true", before parroting whatever they read on reddit, because I have seen a severe lack of that when it come to Ryzen.

I got berated by several people when I said "Issues with the scheduler hasn't been confirmed, and even if they find some issue you shouldn't expect massive performance increases that would put Ryzen 7 on par with the 7700K for gaming".

 

People just need to face the facts about how Ryzen performs and stop wishing for some magical fix to come out in the future.

THe i7 7700k has nearly half a GHz clock speed advantage over Ryzen, it would take a massive IPC advantage to beat it.

 

I mean, the 6900k is usually slower in games than the 7700k.

 

Buy the processor for your work case. It's OK for that not to be Ryzen. It's also OK for that to be a 1700x over a 6900k if you want 16 logical cores, and motherboard dependent, ECC support on a smaller budget than the Intel platform. What is important is you now have the option. Ryzen is a compelling product for some use cases. It doesn't have to be a compelling product for all use cases to be successful.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

It was all /s based on things he deemed important. I suppose I have failed since it was not obvious.

/derail

Sometimes this happens to me 

 

[Teddy07]

9 hours ago, zMeul said:

so ... ladies and gentlemen - do not expect AMD / MicroSoft to release a W10 patch that will magically fix Ryzen's poor gaming performance - it is what it is and nothing will change that

1

Very disappointing. I thought only non techies believe this bullshit about ryzen.

[Tam3n]

I saw this coming... Anyway people should just look at the current performance of the Ryzen chip and take it for what it is, since it's what you get right now for your money. It's still a good chip at a good prize. If your needs don't align with the Ryzen's characteristics, don't buy it. If you buy into the Ryzen expecting some magical increase in performance, there is a high chance you will be disappointed.

[Valentyn]

6 hours ago, zMeul said:

you mean this?

mate ...

 

 

GamersNexus should've added 7700K with CUDA just for laughs 

Why do people only look at rendering in premiere pro? 

 

The longest part is the actual encode, and the gpu doesn't do shit there. It's the cpu that does all the work. 

 

Rendering is only for the effects and edits, not the actual final product that's encoded. 

 

So far only Apple has the GPU helping in the actual encoding process, and even then the cpu still plays a large role. 

[Dabombinable]

2 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Why do people only look at rendering in premiere pro? 

 

The longest part is the actual encode, and the gpu doesn't do shit there. It's the cpu that does all the work. 

 

Rendering is only for the effects and edits, not the actual final product that's encoded. 

 

So far only Apple has the GPU helping in the actual encoding process, and even then the cpu still plays a large role. 

Nope. https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1243687

[Valentyn]

33 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Nope. https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1243687

That's a third party nvenc plugin.

I've tried it in the past, it was a mess ended up very bad quality and riddled with issues. Just read through that thread, it's not a solution to anyone, yet.

 

If abobe ever tried they might pull out something good. Until then Apple is still kicking their ass, and you're better off with the CPU for consistency and quality. 

 

Quote

I just tried this, it's not any faster than just built-in H264 encoding, which is also not much faster than software only.

It's such a shame my 6-core 4.4Ghz dekstop woth watercooled Titan X is barely any faster than my Macbook pro which uses like 1/10 the power. ****** software and optimization on Windows is real.

 

Quote

I will chime in with weadsfdzxc here, as of last week this codec no longer uses any of my gpu to render.  I'm running an msi 1070 and I can see in afterburner that the gpu isn't being touched at all and render times are exactly the same as the standard h.264 codec.

 

 

[Daiyus]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Good to see AMD confirm this as well. Maybe this will make people stop and think "maybe everything I read on the Internet isn't true", before parroting whatever they read on reddit, because I have seen a severe lack of that when it come to Ryzen.

I got berated by several people when I said "Issues with the scheduler hasn't been confirmed, and even if they find some issue you shouldn't expect massive performance increases that would put Ryzen 7 on par with the 7700K for gaming".

 

People just need to face the facts about how Ryzen performs and stop wishing for some magical fix to come out in the future.

So very true. Too many people jump the gun without looking for evidence. Do they not teach that in schools anymore? When I was at school writing reports I had to cite my sources and prove their credibility or else I'd have a fat "F" on the bottom of it.

 

The fact is RyZen doesn't actually perform badly. It seems like most people these days have the "if it isn't the best it's shit" mentality. From what I can tell most people still run at 1080p60. Anyone who is going for 2160p is stuck at 60Hz for the time being anyway. Both chips will do 60FPS in any game you throw them at. The only time the i7 7700k is noticeably "better" than RyZen for gaming is if you're aiming for high refresh rates; in which case you buy what you need, an Intel i7. For most people's work loads either brand will do the job absolutely fine. If you do lean on the side of things where you might have been looking at an i7 Extreme then now you you have a much cheaper alternative. If you've got the itch to have more than four cores there's now a cheaper alternative that actually performs well.

 

Realistically most people shouldn't even be looking at R7 1700X vs i7 7700k, it's overkill for what most people are doing. For most an R5/i5 would be more than sufficient. Again it comes down to people not buying what they actually need and instead going for "the best because anything else is rubbish".

 

Why is everyone arguing again? It seems we now have a variety of compelling choices depending on use case scenario. That's a good thing, right? Buy Intel. Buy AMD. Buy whatever the fuck tickles your fancy and know you're going to have a great time regardless. Win-win for us, the consumers, right?

[zMeul]

11 minutes ago, Daiyus said:

-

except is not that cut and dry

AMD has informed people to test Ryzen certain ways and that skewed the results

doesn't also help that AMD built a very big hype around Ryzen both in compute workloads and gaming - some pan out, others .. not even close

and now, due to their own foolishness they are in damage control mode

 

they weren't even aware if W10 correctly, or not, assigns threads to cores and not SMT until reddit stated boiling

 

---

 

you just wait

there are already people squirming and blaming W10's scheduler that it doesn't assign workloads to same CCX - these idiots are basically asking AMD and/or MS to turn Ryzen into 2 NUMA, and that's fucking retarded

you do have 4 cores / CCX for R7, but what happens with R5 and R3s when you have 3 and 2 cores / CCX .. eh

[Daiyus]

4 minutes ago, zMeul said:

except is not that cut and dry

AMD has informed people to test Ryzen certain ways and that skewed the results

doesn't also help that AMD built a very big hype around Ryzen both in compute workloads and gaming - some pan out others .. not even close

and now, due to their own foolishness they are in damage control mode

 

they weren't even aware if W10 correctly, or not, assigns threads to cores and not SMT until reddit stated boiling

And Intel are perfect and innocent? Please. All these big companies are as bad as each other; the fact remains that RyZen is performing well. There's plenty of reviews out there that show RyZen performing in many different configurations and delivering solid performances. No amount of debating will change that.

 

Was it overhyped? Yes, but what isn't these days?

 

Is it having teething issues? Yes, but what new architecture doesn't? Hell, most games release broken these days. It's nothing new.

 

Is it the best in everything? No, and anyone worth their salt isn't saying that. Anyone considering an R7 for purely gaming seriously needs to reconsider their priorities or spending habits, but it doesn't make the CPU "bad". It doesn't make the Zen architecture "bad".

 

I think people are just getting bent out of shape because it's another Intel vs. AMD flamewar when the reality is that both companies now have competitive architectures. I'm excited to see what RyZen 3 and 5 bring to the table and see physical side-by-side data to their Intel equivalents so I can decide what product I want to get based on my needs and budget; I don't honestly care if that turns out to be AMD or Intel, I just want a good CPU. It's been a long time since there's been a genuine choice to make between the companies so that's exciting for me.

[zMeul]

5 minutes ago, Daiyus said:

And Intel are perfect and innocent?

mate ... why are we discussing Intel!? do you have actual proof Intel did something to skew results?!? Intel doesn't even go on stage to present games ...

wtf are we talking about

 

AMD actually called people / responded to calls when reviewers asked wtf was with the numbers because they oddly did not match what AMD showed them in the press conference

 

Quote

It doesn't make the Zen architecture "bad".

actually it does

Intel did a similar thing about 7+y ago with Core 2 Quad when they practically fused two Core 2 Duo cores on the same die

[samcool55]

10 minutes ago, zMeul said:

except is not that cut and dry

AMD has informed people to test Ryzen certain ways and that skewed the results

doesn't also help that AMD built a very big hype around Ryzen both in compute workloads and gaming - some pan out, others .. not even close

and now, due to their own foolishness they are in damage control mode

 

they weren't even aware if W10 correctly, or not, assigns threads to cores and not SMT until reddit stated boiling

 

---

 

you just wait

there are already people squirming and blaming W10's scheduler that it doesn't assign workloads to same CCX - these idiots are basically asking AMD and/or MS to turn Ryzen into 2 NUMA, and that's fucking retarded

you do have 4 cores / CCX for R7, but what happens with R5 and R3s when you have 3 and 2 cores / CCX .. eh

Do you mean a reviewers guide?

That's something everyone gives to reviewers at a product launch.

AMD, nvidia, intel, they all do it. Always.

 

And regardless what you think, AMD is back, they are back in the big 500 list of the biggest companies and their stock value just keeps going up. So just a note, the W10 issues are basically irrelevant because in the end it's Naples that will need to bring AMD completely back in the game and Ryzen shines in the workloads that are common in the business world.

 

Or do you believe Intel suddenly decided to focus more on the server market just 4 lolz?

[zMeul]

2 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

And regardless what you think, AMD is back, they are back in the big 500 list of the biggest companies and their stock value just keeps going up. So just a note, the W10 issues are basically irrelevant because in the end it's Naples that will need to bring AMD completely back in the game and Ryzen shines in the workloads that are common in the business world.

 

Or do you believe Intel suddenly decided to focus more on the server market just 4 lolz?

Naples ... oh boy

haven't you heard? HPC market is shifting towards ARM and ditching x86

who's Naples for?!!? junkyards 

[XenosTech]

10 hours ago, MageTank said:

Exactly, and within 4 years, Intel managed to improve IPC by a whopping 5-8% when comparing Haswell to Kaby. DDR4 gave the vast majority of that improvement. Ryzen is fine. It's not as fast as Intel for gaming, but it's "good enough" and cheaper when compared to Intel's "heavy lifting" CPU's. This means people that want to do a bit of both (gaming and pro-sumer work) might find Ryzen to be a compelling option. Granted, this is likely a pointless endeavor, seeing as you will always hate AMD with a passion, and likely have me blocked as well (since objective thinking goes against your belief system). 

Atleast I'm not the only one that thinks this about him.

[samcool55]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

Naples ... oh boy

haven't you heard? HPC market is shifting towards ARM and ditching x86

who's Naples for?!!? junkyards 

With what exactly?

Qualcomm hasn't got anything yet, amd tried but didn't get anywhere near something decent, intel got something but it was crap and i don't think samsung even cares atm.

 

Also the fact programs need to be ported to ARM takes time. Maybe x86 isn't the "future" but Naples is a very good option for the server farms of today. Also serverfarms usually keep hardware for just a few years so it's perfectly possible that Naples gets released, used and EOL before there is an ARM option available. Going from x86 to ARM isn't something you do overnight while you can (sort of) go from old Intel Xeon's to Naples overnight

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, zMeul said:

Naples ... oh boy

haven't you heard? HPC market is shifting towards ARM and ditching x86

who's Naples for?!!? junkyards 

ARM has got an extremely long way to go before it's actually going to be used widely in HPC. AMD made this very same bet which is why they dropped out of the server market, they shot for ARM in the server world and that massively failed. Intel currently has 99%+ market share in the server world, ARM and AMD both will have a very hard time breaking in to that in any significant way.

 

Naples is much more likely than ARM will. However ARM is currently a great fit for cheap massive scale web hosting.

[zMeul]

2 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

With what exactly?

Qualcomm hasn't got anything yet, amd tried but didn't get anywhere near something decent, intel got something but it was crap and i don't think samsung even cares atm.

read:

by the end of the year, MS plans to switch all their data centers to ARM based machines

they even stopped ordering x86 machines, HP being their supplier took a huge hit

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, zMeul said:

read:

 

Microsoft isn't going to move all servers that are part of Azure to ARM, this I 100% know since we actually talk to the Azure architects, the actual ones inside Microsoft. The very article you linked only cite 4 targeted use cases.

 

Edit:

8 minutes ago, zMeul said:

by the end of the year, MS plans to switch all their data centers to ARM based machines

they even stopped ordering x86 machines, HP being their supplier took a huge hit

Absolutely wrong. Nothing more to say than that.

[Daiyus]

2 minutes ago, zMeul said:

mate ... why are we discussing Intel!? do you have actual proof Intel did something to skew results?!? Intel doesn't even go on stage to present games ...

wtf are we talking about

 

AMD actually called people / responded to calls when reviewers asked wtf was with the numbers because they oddly did not matched what AMD showed them in the press conference

 

actually it does

Intel did a similar thing about 7+y ago with Core 2 Quad when they practically fused two Core 2 Duo cores on the same die

It's well known that Intel have played their own dirty tricks over the years, and paid the price; http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/11/12/a-timeline-of-intel-and-amds-legal-battles/. They're always having a pop at each other just like every big business does. They're "all as bad as each other", I just picked Intel as a direct competitor.

 

And it really doesn't. It might not be the best design. It might have been tried by Intel too and ditched. It may very well be fraught with issues but the results do not lie; as of right now it's holding it's own despite all of that and as you always so eloquently put: "it's performance now is what it always will be". If it works and puts out a solid performance and people are happy with it then it's done it's job; it's got AMD back into the game and increased mindshare.

 

We need competition and from that perspective RyZen is a resounding success. I'm not sitting here telling you to buy it, it's very clear you aren't happy with AMD and that's your right; carry on buying Intel and be happy, more power to you. There's plenty of us that are glad to have a realistic choice again, that's all I'm saying, regardless of if you have issues with RyZen.

[samcool55]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

read:

 

1) it's a project. God knows how it will go. They are already working on it for years and there's like not even a concept shown nor a ETA is given.

2) They aren't the only company telling us they are going to compete using ARM and again, no signs of it being ready anytime soon.

 

AMD has naples, Microsoft, Qualcomm etc have "something".

Naples works in the current infrastructure, ARM doesn't.

 

I rest my case until i see a product that shows us ARM is capable of competing with Naples/Xeon cpu's.

Proof first, then we will talk

[zMeul]

3 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

-

few facts

• MS stopped acquiring x86 systems
• MS has the OS to accept ARM arch
• it's in testing, meaning the darn things are actually active

if MS shows that ARM can be used as an alternative, Intel will take a huge hit and AMD will be wiped out

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

few facts

• MS stopped acquiring x86 systems

Stop repeating that, it's not true.