SIM cards are still too big. Infineon annonces a 1.5mm SIM card.

[Bouzoo]

I'm split on this. I will not say it's useless because I'm more than sure that there are such small devices that could benefit from this, but at the same time I hope it doesn't become a phone standard.

The things that do bother me:

Will they be carrier locked? If all carriers can use them by swapping a specific "carrier key" then that's good (if it has proper security alright). If it's locked and you can unlock it w/o a cost then that is nothing different than now and is not a minus. 

Reliability. Considering SIM cards break down more often than average Alfa Romeo does, how reliable would this be? I had to swap 3 SIM cards in 6 months because they stopped working. Just saying. If the SIM module breaks down, how lomg will they need to replace it? Now I only need to swap my card. 

Data transfer. If I buy a new phone (not from a carrier) what is the process? How do I transfer my number to other phone? How lond would I have to wait? Current solution is instant. 

You know Dual Sim solutions? How would those work? 

If my phone breaks down, how do I transfer data? Especially if your backup phone has only a SIM slot. 

 

And many, many more. 

 

 

[Senzelian]

1 hour ago, manikyath said:

am i really the only person left in the world that wants two mini SIM and an SD card slot in his phone? seriously.. we dont need phones thinner than 10mm, you're killing off so much internal space for a metric that you dont even notice in your pocket.

 

EDIT: and a big removable battery...

Do you even know how thick a cm is? My OnePlus 2 is on the thicker side of phones already, but that is just 7 or 8mm. I don' t want it to be even thicker. 

[Guest Kloaked]

Only 1.5 x 1.1 x 0.37? Wow. Why can't we have something actually smaller than my

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, Senzelian said:

Do you even know how thick a cm is? My OnePlus 2 is on the thicker side of phones already, but that is just 7 or 8mm. I don' t want it to be even thicker. 

the thing is, you dont feel it while holding it, the moto G (which is my phone) is a perfect example, coming in at 12mm thickness, but because of the round back it feels much thinner, and actually feels better in the hand than a thin flat phone like an iPhone, which basicly feels like it'd just slip out your hand in a heartbeat.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

 

1 hour ago, tsk said:

This eSIM would allow you to quickly sign up for a carrier in any country and would render dual SIM useless. As someone who travels a lot around the world this would be a godsend for me. 

Is this certain? Will the eSIM support an unlimited (well, I don't care if it's limited to 25 or something ) number of services simultaneously?
As someone who travels a lot, dual-sim and user-changeable sim are essential to me. The ability to switch is nice, but only part of the picture, I need the simultaneity too.

[manikyath]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

 

Is this certain? Will the eSIM support an unlimited (well, I don't care if it's limited to 25 or something ) number of services simultaneously?
As someone who travels a lot, dual-sim and user-changeable sim are essential to me. The ability to switch is nice, but only part of the picture, I need the simultaneity too.

on top of which, i know a few people who have a contract for calling and texting, and a seperate prepaid plan for mobile data.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

Just now, manikyath said:

on top of which, i know a few people who have a contract for calling and texting, and a seperate prepaid plan for mobile data.

That's almost my case, since calling/texting is cheaper with my "local" line, even when crossing the border, while data is cheaper on one of my "foreign" lines, even at roaming-inflated prices (thank you EU for roaming regulations! ).

[Misanthrope]

SIM cards are too big!

 

Meanwhile...

 

 

We are probably way over 5"" at this point. Seems to me like we have plenty of fucking space and is increasing.

[Doobeedoo]

Hm, interesting if it's like being able to exchange it with phone though so small.. and or through website if change of carriers. 
Not sure about it but we'l see.

[handymanshandle]

2 hours ago, tsk said:

This new SIM will not be user changeable, it will be a small chip soldered in the device. You can now change carriers with a phone call or activation through a carrier web service. 

In the US, carriers will end up being like "That's where you're wrong kiddo"

[rhavimarques]

3 hours ago, tsk said:

This new SIM will not be user changeable, it will be a small chip soldered in the device. You can now change carriers with a phone call or activation through a carrier web service. 

so you want to give the power of switching phones over to your carrier? you want to give up the freedom to pop your sim in any device you want? i myself quite enjoy being able to pop my sim out and putting into a cheaper phone if i'm going to a place where i might get pickpocketed, or putting it into an old dumbphone that lasts a week when i go out camping, and i REALLY enjoy being able to buy new phones from anywhere i want without my carrier having a say or even knowing about it.

not sure if you guys are old enough to remember when sim cards weren't a thing, and you had to go to your carrier to get your number transfered to a new device, it wasnt fun, and we all liked sim cards when they started to show up.

[shermantanker]

well shit that is a small sucker.

[Mooshi]

What's the point when freed space seems to be used by gimmicky large haptic feedback systems and manufactures like omitting expandable storage.

[Mooshi]

3 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

I'm split on this. I will not say it's useless because I'm more than sure that there are such small devices that could benefit from this, but at the same time I hope it doesn't become a phone standard.

The things that do bother me:

Will they be carrier locked? If all carriers can use them by swapping a specific "carrier key" then that's good (if it has proper security alright). If it's locked and you can unlock it w/o a cost then that is nothing different than now and is not a minus. 

Reliability. Considering SIM cards break down more often than average Alfa Romeo does, how reliable would this be? I had to swap 3 SIM cards in 6 months because they stopped working. Just saying. If the SIM module breaks down, how lomg will they need to replace it? Now I only need to swap my card. 

Data transfer. If I buy a new phone (not from a carrier) what is the process? How do I transfer my number to other phone? How lond would I have to wait? Current solution is instant. 

You know Dual Sim solutions? How would those work? 

If my phone breaks down, how do I transfer data? Especially if your backup phone has only a SIM slot. 

 

And many, many more. 

 

 

...?

 

A sim is literally a bridge and nothing more. Carrier specific doesn't matter since you get those for free by customer service or visiting a corp store.

 

As for getting a phone without a carrier, all you do is harass a carrier you want service with and get a sim (as long as phone itself is compatible with network).

 

If you don't have a sim, your phone is a small tablet and that's it. You need a sim + carrier to get a number so idk what the issue is. If you don't have active service, you don't have a number to even move around.

 

If phone itself breaks down, sim has zero to do with your stored data. This is why you backup to cloud services.

[Prysin]

about time

[Bouzoo]

33 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

...?

 

A sim is literally a bridge and nothing more. Carrier specific doesn't matter since you get those for free by customer service or visiting a corp store.

 

As for getting a phone without a carrier, all you do is harass a carrier you want service with and get a sim (as long as phone itself is compatible with network).

 

If you don't have a sim, your phone is a small tablet and that's it. You need a sim + carrier to get a number so idk what the issue is. If you don't have active service, you don't have a number to even move around.

 

If phone itself breaks down, sim has zero to do with your stored data. This is why you backup to cloud services.

I don't think you understood everything I meant.

Since they clearly state embedded, they will be installed in devices and that's where my issue lies in phones. If I decide to change carrier, how will i change it? Will the chip/SIM be "reprogrammable", will you have to deliver the phone to them to unlock, or will it be for a specific carrier which would mean no other carriers for a phone, which is against the law at least here) so I'm interested in how it will work.

It is not harassing, not even in the least. What I am buying form my carrier are telecom services, not a phone, and he is obliged to deliver them (if I'm on postpaid naturally, by terms in the agreement). It is up to me to decide in which phone I will use their card, as long as it's not region locked (like some phones are in Korea, Europe, etc.).

Small tablet? I'm not sure why you are bringing that up?

I always have everything stored on my SIM and phone but that's not the issue here, but what I'm trying to point out is if your phone breaks and your new card is embedded, how will you insert your number in a new/backup phone? Everything related to my questions is the fact that they are supposed to be embedded. 

You might have also noticed that I said in my first post that I'm not against this since SIM cards are more than outdated.

Also just to be clear, I work for a carrier, so I'm pointing out the questions based on things I see every day with consumers. 

[Dabombinable]

5 hours ago, manikyath said:

the thing is, you dont feel it while holding it, the moto G (which is my phone) is a perfect example, coming in at 12mm thickness, but because of the round back it feels much thinner, and actually feels better in the hand than a thin flat phone like an iPhone, which basicly feels like it'd just slip out your hand in a heartbeat.

The only problem with the MotoG is the weight. That and the none removable battery.

[manikyath]

33 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

The only problem with the MotoG is the weight. That and the none removable battery.

i wouldnt really call it that heavy, and yes, the non removable battery kinda bugs me, along with the lack of an SD card slot.

EDIT: my moto G weighs 144 grams, or about as much as my wallet with the 4 cards i keep in it, and about €3.50 worth of change.

[Mr.Meerkat]

7 hours ago, manikyath said:

i'm having flashbacks to my ipod touch 4th gen after a year...

It took my ipod touch 4th gen like 4 years to reach that stage  

 

I still remember getting it from my 2010 christmas and using it everyday until summer 2015 where it only held like 10 mins of charge, no matter what I was doing with it...

[manikyath]

3 minutes ago, Mr.Meerkat said:

It took my ipod touch 4th gen like 4 years to reach that stage  

 

I still remember getting it from my 2010 christmas and using it everyday until summer 2015 where it only held like 10 mins of charge, no matter what I was doing with it...

mine was one of those devices that all mysteriously *suddenly* had battery problems the very week 5th gen launched...

[Mr.Meerkat]

10 minutes ago, manikyath said:

mine was one of those devices that all mysteriously *suddenly* had battery problems the very week 5th gen launched...

Sigh, I remember much I wanted to upgrade to the 5th gen when it came out...dual core CPU, retina display, decent camera and all that good stuff...

 

Good thing I waited out as summer 2013, I got a iphone 5 for fweeeee  

It's still my back up phone to this day...it's battery has survived so much abuse...5 years later and it will get through 3/5 to 3/4 of a day no problemo. 

[Mooshi]

4 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

I don't think you understood everything I meant.

Since they clearly state embedded, they will be installed in devices and that's where my issue lies in phones. If I decide to change carrier, how will i change it? Will the chip/SIM be "reprogrammable", will you have to deliver the phone to them to unlock, or will it be for a specific carrier which would mean no other carriers for a phone, which is against the law at least here) so I'm interested in how it will work.

It is not harassing, not even in the least. What I am buying form my carrier are telecom services, not a phone, and he is obliged to deliver them (if I'm on postpaid naturally, by terms in the agreement). It is up to me to decide in which phone I will use their card, as long as it's not region locked (like some phones are in Korea, Europe, etc.).

Small tablet? I'm not sure why you are bringing that up?

I always have everything stored on my SIM and phone but that's not the issue here, but what I'm trying to point out is if your phone breaks and your new card is embedded, how will you insert your number in a new/backup phone? Everything related to my questions is the fact that they are supposed to be embedded. 

You might have also noticed that I said in my first post that I'm not against this since SIM cards are more than outdated.

Also just to be clear, I work for a carrier, so I'm pointing out the questions based on things I see every day with consumers. 

Oh my bad, I also work with a carrier and missed out the imbedded thing haha. I saw this thread and noticed tiny sim on break and was a tad confused a bit.

 

Imbedded sim would be weird... It'd be like the iPhone 4S all over again and those can be a pain to activate.

[HelplmChoking]

I spent years using phones on a CDMA network that didn't even have SIM cards, they just registered your number to a number on the handset. I believe a different provider had SIM cards, but eh. The phones were unlocked then, and will be in the future. It just contains an identifier, nothing important.

[dizmo]

This has been touted for a few years now. Still nothing comes of it, I don't see that changing now.

 

11 hours ago, tsk said:

This is long overdue, I know Apple wants to implement this so hoping to see it in next year's iPhone so the rest of the industry will follow. 

They've been saying that for the last few iPhones. It hasn't happened yet, and I doubt it will. Blackberry also rumored using it in their phones, that also didn't take off.

11 hours ago, HarryNyquist said:

Oh good, another way to kill off carrier-unlocked phones. 

Hard pass on that one. I don't want to be stuck with buying a new device every time I switch carriers.

It's not like every company needs to implement them. Unless a carrier starts to have them as a requirement from the phone manufacturer we'll likely still see SIM phones out and about. Eventually it'll change, because if you really think about it, it's rather archaic.

11 hours ago, UnbrokenMotion said:

I'd say we don't need these, phones keep getting bigger so why do we need to extra room provided by a smaller sim card?

 

The ONLY practical use I see for one of these is in a curved phone.

Bigger battery? More sensors or modules? Curved phones aren't really that different, just move it to the top like they do.

11 hours ago, Sauron said:

 -snip- I'd much rather see advancements in battery technology and a halt to the thinness craze.

I have to ask, because I see this stated all the time. Do you think that companies work on everything phone related? They don't. This is news from a semiconductor company, which when looking at the phone space, deals almost exclusively in SIM cards. They're no going to be involved in smaller batteries, and they'll keep advancing the components they produce. You want better batteries? Bitch at the battery producers.

10 hours ago, tsk said:

This new SIM will not be user changeable, it will be a small chip soldered in the device. You can now change carriers with a phone call or activation through a carrier web service. 

It could be. Something as simple as connecting it to NFC, get a new "SIM" at a machine, tap and carry on.

10 hours ago, manikyath said:

am i really the only person left in the world that wants two mini SIM and an SD card slot in his phone? seriously.. we dont need phones thinner than 10mm, you're killing off so much internal space for a metric that you dont even notice in your pocket.

 

EDIT: and a big removable battery...

Mini? Probably. Why not Nano?

Depends what you wear. I wear tighter jeans. With a case, I'd notice the extra girth. Not to mention if you utilize the space, say with battery, then you'll get a significantly heavier device. Noticeable again.

 

I think I'm with the consumer majority being happy with a full day of battery life, sealed, and slim.

I wouldn't mind expandable storage but into UFS cards come out I couldn't give less of a fuck.

10 hours ago, IAmLamp said:

-snip-

I think companies should be focusing more on the speed of the drives rather than the size. 

Not sure if you've missed it, but they have been. UFS has been through two iterations already.

As I mentioned to another, this isn't a storage company. They won't advance storage.

10 hours ago, manikyath said:

we dont need a smaller sim for your sim to be carrier independant, in fact i believe the dutch are already pushing for carrier independant sim's. and i dont think this would allow you to register for two carriers at the same time either

I'm pretty sure it does. Blackberry was looking into this a couple of years ago.

10 hours ago, grimreeper132 said:

is it only me that finds it ironic how everyone now wants to get a bigger phone but also wants it to have a smaller sim card???

More space for other things. What's wrong with that?

What I don't get why people are complaining about SIM card reduction over the years. Most of it's wasted plastic anyway.

9 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

-snip-

Reliability. Considering SIM cards break down more often than average Alfa Romeo does, how reliable would this be? I had to swap 3 SIM cards in 6 months because they stopped working. Just saying. If the SIM module breaks down, how lomg will they need to replace it? Now I only need to swap my card. 

Data transfer. If I buy a new phone (not from a carrier) what is the process? How do I transfer my number to other phone? How lond would I have to wait? Current solution is instant. 

You know Dual Sim solutions? How would those work? 

If my phone breaks down, how do I transfer data? Especially if your backup phone has only a SIM slot. 

And many, many more.

I've never broken a SIM before. I really don't think they're that fragile, I don't know what you do to yours

Broken SIMs wouldn't be a problem this way, as it's not a small piece of plastic. It would be an integrated component. You'd have about the same chance of your RAM failing, which doesn't happen often.

Data transfer is easily done other ways.

I believe this can hold as many SIMs as you want (to the capacity of the memory module).

You'd have to get the same phone, or one with the same tech. Simple.

9 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

-snip-

We are probably way over 5"" at this point. Seems to me like we have plenty of fucking space and is increasing.

To be fair battery size has increased, there are more sensors than ever before, dual cameras...the space isn't exactly wasted.

8 hours ago, huilun02 said:

-snip-

This would also allow all our 'beloved' ISP/carriers the power to force customers into using only the phones they sell. Also imagine it being used as a kill switch to brick phones, stopping the trade of used phones entirely.
-snip-

I think that's a little extreme. They wouldn't do that as it would create tons and tons of what would essentially be waste.

If the phones are still sold SIM unlocked, then it's not an issue.

Buy from a carrier and don't pay out the contract? Well, then you kind of deserve to have it killed.

 

[manikyath]

19 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Mini? Probably. Why not Nano?

Depends what you wear. I wear tighter jeans. With a case, I'd notice the extra girth. Not to mention if you utilize the space, say with battery, then you'll get a significantly heavier device. Noticeable again.

 

I think I'm with the consumer majority being happy with a full day of battery life, sealed, and slim.

I wouldn't mind expandable storage but into UFS cards come out I couldn't give less of a fuck.

because i honestly dont see why we needed nano in the first place. probably just me being an old man again, but i prefer mini because at some point the stuff gets so small you just drop and lose it.. constantly...

 

if anything, tighter jeans are a reason to get a smaller rounded back phone, than a bigger flat one. ever had a backpack with a 17 inch laptop in it? i often quite comically call it "wooden board syndrome" because it quite literally feels like you strapped a wooden board to your back, and that is essentially what a big flat phone in your pocket will feel like. as a contrast, i've weighed this out earlier, my wallet is a bit over twice the size of my phone, and comes in at about twice the weight depending on how much change i have with me on a given day. if you're not a dreamer wishing he lived in a cashless society, the weight and thickness of your phone arent much of a problem as opposed to the pocket change you have on hand to buy a snack at the train station.

 

as for battery life for joe average... i'd rather say they have learned to "cope" with a day of battery life, as opposed as being happy with it. before my dad got his buisiness phone (remember those things? it was like a smartphone, but not really usable at all), he'd recharge his phone when in the car, i dont actually think he charged his phone once with a charger other than his phone dock in the car. then buisiness phones came, and they'd come to the habit of charging on the weekends, then smartphones came and my dad now walks from charger to charger with his phone. he's okay with it, because he's used to it, and there is no other option. but it should be very much noted that this is not because he was happy with doing so.

 

i've managed to teach my mom how to make her moto E last for a week between recharges, she's been keeping it tidy almost religiously, remembers to close apps, turns off bluetooth and wifi when not needed, and so on. and it's actually a rather big disappointment if she ever runs out half way the last day of the week. she copes with it because in a world of smartphones you just have micro usb cables ready for a refill everywhere, but she'd quite certainly not happy recharging her phone in the middle of a meeting.