*Update* Verizon Wireless to stop handing out Static IPv4, Will now provide IPv6

[goodtofufriday]

Source: My email as a business customer

 

 

I don't know that all the devices I utilize on their service can use IPv6 with the ipsec tunnels. Going to have to do some testing but I find it interesting that their IPv4 pool is already used up.

 

***UPDATE***

 

Seems VZW wasn't 100% forth coming with this announcement. They have stopped purchasing and adding IPv4 addresses to current regional segments and cannot give out any more if their remaining addresses are given out. But since it its not June 30th I've personally not been able to get get a IPv6 address. 

The VZW team is trying to resolve this for me, but this is the current state of things.

[VerticalDiscussions]

Well, guess that just proves it that until 2020, we will really need to change most of our internet\local network identification numbers :P.

[Dabombinable]

And how long has ipv6 been around for? What, like almost 20 years?

[79wjd]

19 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

And how long has ipv6 been around for? What, like almost 20 years?

But what if I want to play my SNES online? 

[PocketNerd]

24 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

And how long has ipv6 been around for? What, like almost 20 years?

No one has bothered changing cause "omg change is bad!"

But yeah, it's about time for this to start happening. With the "Internet of Things" trend going on it was only a matter of time.

[2FA]

Finally some of the older ISPs are switching over.

 

Fun fact: There are more IPv6 addresses than there are grains of sand on Earth.

[dmegatool]

15 hours ago, PocketNerd said:

No one has bothered changing cause "omg change is bad!"

But yeah, it's about time for this to start happening. With the "Internet of Things" trend going on it was only a matter of time.

More like compatibility in businesses and did you ever tried to memorize an IPv6 address ? 

 

Ex: 5800:10C3:E3C3:F1AA:48E3:D923:D494:AAFF... really ? 

[79wjd]

10 minutes ago, dmegatool said:

More like compatibility in businesses and did you ever tried to memorize an IPv6 address ? 

 

Ex: 5800:10C3:E3C3:F1AA:48E3:D923:D494:AAFF... really ? 

Ipv6 external and ipv4 internal.

[arbellason55]

Well that's funny, just got around to learning about IP addresses in my networking class.

[XenosTech]

28 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Ipv6 external and ipv4 internal.

We have external ip v4 and both ip v64 and v6 internal at my work place (ISP's here are lazy so we probably wont see ip v6 til 3000  )

[LAwLz]

On 2017-03-09 at 0:08 AM, PocketNerd said:

No one has bothered changing cause "omg change is bad!"

That's not the reason at all. The reason why "no one has bothered changing" is because it is an extremely complicated process and things such as protocols needed are actually fairly new.

For example the routing protocol OSPF was updated to support IPv6 sometime in 2008. So those "20 years" are more like 8 years, and that's before anything even supported it. For things like routers to have it implemented we are looking at even more recent times.

 

Those 20 years might be more like 5 years, and during that short period of time a ton of things needed to happen before it could actually be implemented in live environments. It's not just something you press a button with and then everything works.

 

It's not about "change is bad!". It's about "this change doesn't really improve anything for our business, it will cost a ton of time and money, and it might cause a lot of issues".

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

That's not the reason at all. The reason why "no one has bothered changing" is because it is an extremely complicated process and things such as protocols needed are actually fairly new.

For example the routing protocol OSPF was updated to support IPv6 sometime in 2008. So those "20 years" are more like 8 years, and that's before anything even supported it. For things like routers to have it implemented we are looking at even more recent times.

 

Those 20 years might be more like 5 years, and during that short period of time a ton of things needed to happen before it could actually be implemented in live environments. It's not just something you press a button with and then everything works.

 

It's not about "change is bad!". It's about "this change doesn't really improve anything for our business, it will cost a ton of time and money, and it might cause a lot of issues".

And Windows is still broken when it comes to IPv6, our Domain Controllers kept dropping their STATICALLY configured IPv6 addresses breaking tons of stuff still trying to talk to them over a previously perfectly valid address. What the actual fuck 

 

Then there are other issues like device support for IPv6, line phone systems and firewalls. And on the topic of firewalls all the new rules you need to create, not a small task for large networks.

 

Public IPv6 routing, and often even internal, is a joke.

 

People will move to IPv6 when it just works, like IPv4 does.

[jagdtigger]

46 minutes ago, leadeater said:

And Windows is still broken when it comes to IPv6, our Domain Controllers kept dropping their STATICALLY configured IPv6 addresses breaking tons of stuff still trying to talk to them over a previously perfectly valid address. What the actual fuck 

 

Then there are other issues like device support for IPv6, line phone systems and firewalls. And on the topic of firewalls all the new rules you need to create, not a small task for large networks.

 

Public IPv6 routing, and often even internal, is a joke.

 

People will move to IPv6 when it just works, like IPv4 does.

Yeah, let them use CGN, because that wont cause problems...

I upgrade to a faster internet(40/4->100/10) but i was getting 2/0,2. Started troubleshooting, internal network was fine. Then i noticed the IP that my router got from my carrier: 100.64.x.x

I called them and said they sending a technician. Later that tecnician called me to ask when he can come i asked him if its possible to disable the CGN for me. Next day i had a public IP and the speed problem was gone. Later when he came he confirmed that my modem and cable to the CMTS is ok.

[SCHISCHKA]

21 hours ago, dmegatool said:

More like compatibility in businesses and did you ever tried to memorize an IPv6 address ? 

 

Ex: 5800:10C3:E3C3:F1AA:48E3:D923:D494:AAFF... really ? 

Yes that really puts me off it but you might be able to make rude words out of it. All I got is 8008:1335

[jasonvp]

21 hours ago, dmegatool said:

did you ever tried to memorize an IPv6 address ? 

 

Ex: 5800:10C3:E3C3:F1AA:48E3:D923:D494:AAFF... really ? 

Statements like this annoy the fuck out of me, and just continually display an immense amount of ignorance.  There's a thing we call DNS.  Have you used it before?  What the fuck are you doing memorizing IP addresses for?  It's unnecessary, clumsy, and quite frankly: stupid.  If you're trying to remember IP addresses, you're doing it wrong.

 

The move to IPv6 can't happen soon enough.  Folks just have to get over it.  And businesses have to start upgrading their (sometimes ancient) network gear to support v6 in hardware.  It's not difficult unless you let it be difficult.

 

IPv6 is easy.  Learn it.  Love it.  Get used to it.  Start using it as soon as you can to get more experience with it.

 

 

[LAwLz]

32 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

Statements like this annoy the fuck out of me, and just continually display an immense amount of ignorance.  There's a thing we call DNS.  Have you used it before?  What the fuck are you doing memorizing IP addresses for?  It's unnecessary, clumsy, and quite frankly: stupid.  If you're trying to remember IP addresses, you're doing it wrong.

That's only true for end users, not the networking people.

You can't write access lists or do routing using DNS names. You need the addresses for those kinds of things.

 

 

36 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

The move to IPv6 can't happen soon enough.  Folks just have to get over it.  And businesses have to start upgrading their (sometimes ancient) network gear to support v6 in hardware.  It's not difficult unless you let it be difficult.

It's a lot more difficult than you might think.

It can be very difficult upgrading a network with just new hardware, let alone the change from IPv4 to IPv6 which can require almost entirely rebuilding the network (at least if you want IPv6 internally too).

A lot of companies and organizations just don't see the benefit, and I totally see why.

 

 

We need to move to IPv6. It has to happen sooner or later. But it is no easy and simple task.

[jasonvp]

Just now, LAwLz said:

You can't write access lists or do routing using DNS names. You need the addresses for those kinds of things.

So let's do a level-set:  I've been a network architect for over 20 years.  I "get it".  Routing isn't done with "IP addresses" if you're doing routing properly.  It's done with address blocks.  It's not difficult.  As for access lists: again - if you're filtering down to the individual /128 IP, you're doing it wrong.

 

Quote

 

It's a lot more difficult than you might think.

Not really, no.  I run massive data centers.  It's not difficult at all, unless you've stuck your head in the sand like an ostrich and ignored it for the last decade or more.

 

Quote

It can be very difficult upgrading a network with just new hardware, let alone the change from IPv4 to IPv6 which can require almost entirely rebuilding the network (at least if you want IPv6 internally too).

No one suggests changing from v4 to v6 right off the bat.  If anyone believes that's what's being asked, generically, they're not getting it.  Dual-stack is where it's at, to get the ball rolling.  And none of that requires "entirely rebuilding the network".

 

Quote

A lot of companies and organizations just don't see the benefit, and I totally see why.

And that's ultimately the problem: they don't see the benefit because their heads are buried in the sand, or they're only looking 2 inches in front of their respective noses.  The longer they wait, the harder the "IPv6 crash course" is going to be for them when it's ultimately forced upon them.

 

And it will be forced upon them.

 

Folks need to get over it right now and start learning how to manage a dual-stacked network, right now.  Whether they see an immediate benefit or not is another story entirely.  The experience and education is what matters.

[Urishima]

6 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

And none of that requires "entirely rebuilding the network".

I mean, is there really any hardware you would have to switch out? I don't think so. Maybe if you are running some ancient router in there somewhere, but that is really on you at that point.

[jasonvp]

Just now, Urishima said:

I mean, is there really any hardware you would have to switch out? I don't think so. Maybe if you are running some ancient router in there somewhere, but that is really on you at that point.

Of course.  You don't want network gear doing what they do in software because it slows things down immensely.  You want it in hardware.  Doing IPv6 forwarding in hardware requires different buffer sizes than does IPv4, among other things.  And you need to make sure the NOS you're running on the gear can handle the control plane aspects of IPv6.

 

Some very old hardware (and NOS) can't do that.  I agree with you in that if you're running gear that old, you need to update it.

[LAwLz]

45 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

 Routing isn't done with "IP addresses" if you're doing routing properly.  It's done with address blocks.

1) You're being pedantic. "It's not done with IP addresses it's done with IP blocks!". An address block is an IP address. 192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 is an address which defines a block.

 

2) IP routing is most certainly done at individual IP address level in some situations.

 

45 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

 It's not difficult.  As for access lists: again - if you're filtering down to the individual /128 IP, you're doing it wrong.

I sure hope your 20 years of experience isn't in security, because I would dread to see the firewall you configured.

"Hey, can you open a port for our new server?"

"Yeah, let me just unblock the entire network the server is on!"

 

45 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

Not really, no.  I run massive data centers.  It's not difficult at all, unless you've stuck your head in the sand like an ostrich and ignored it for the last decade or more.

Welcome to the real world, where companies has "stuck their heads in the sand" for the last decade...

But even then it would have been a massive undertaking for a lot of companies.

It hasn't really been a problem for end users (and I include companies in that) up until very recently.

 

 

49 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

No one suggests changing from v4 to v6 right off the bat.  If anyone believes that's what's being asked, generically, they're not getting it.  Dual-stack is where it's at, to get the ball rolling.  And none of that requires "entirely rebuilding the network".

Yes, and dual stack solutions can be quite time and money consuming, and for many companies they have not seen the point until very recently.

I mean, do you want to run IPv6 both internally and externally? Then you need to use different techniques for handling both inwards and outwards traffic based on which device the source and destination want to talk to.

 

It is not a simple thing like you make it sound. Especially not when you factor in the time and money requirements for a lot of companies.

 

 

I've recently finished a project where I upgraded the network for a large factory. It was a mess. A thing that should be simple, like changing out an access switch, was a major hurdle because they had band-aid fixes on band-aid fixes on band-aid fixes. It was quite frankly a miracle the network even worked at all.

They have machines running Windows 3.11 in some places. Why? Because the machine still works just fine, and upgrading it would cost hundreds of thousands dollars. It is pretty hard to justify spending millions of dollars and a ton of time on something which already works just fine.

 

 

If it was as simple as you make it sound, then the move would have happened overnight, but that's not the world we live in.

 

 

1 hour ago, Urishima said:

I mean, is there really any hardware you would have to switch out? I don't think so. Maybe if you are running some ancient router in there somewhere, but that is really on you at that point.

When I said "almost entirely rebuilding the network" I was not really referring to hardware. I am sure a lot of companies would need to change some hardware, especially if they want to maintain performance and stability. The big "rebuild" would be in IP address plans, firewall rules, routing and other configurations.

You know, things where you would manually have to redo and retest a ton of work.

Things like that can be a massive undertaking.

[goodtofufriday]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

And Windows is still broken when it comes to IPv6, our Domain Controllers kept dropping their STATICALLY configured IPv6 addresses breaking tons of stuff still trying to talk to them over a previously perfectly valid address. What the actual fuck 

 

Then there are other issues like device support for IPv6, line phone systems and firewalls. And on the topic of firewalls all the new rules you need to create, not a small task for large networks.

 

Public IPv6 routing, and often even internal, is a joke.

 

People will move to IPv6 when it just works, like IPv4 does.

We run an Azure cloud VM to handle our DC. I'm very happy I'm not running it over verizon wireless, though honestly know that I think about the uptime would be quite incredible... 

2 hours ago, jasonvp said:

The move to IPv6 can't happen soon enough.  Folks just have to get over it.  And businesses have to start upgrading their (sometimes ancient) network gear to support v6 in hardware.  It's not difficult unless you let it be difficult.

Some of our hardware that is only a few years old doesnt seem to be fully compatible. Thankfully though the devices we use for the ipsec tunnels And run over VZW seem to fully support it. 

 

4 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

When I said "almost entirely rebuilding the network" I was not really referring to hardware. I am sure a lot of companies would need to change some hardware, especially if they want to maintain performance and stability. The big "rebuild" would be in IP address plans, firewall rules, routing and other configurations.

You know, things where you would manually have to redo and retest a ton of work.

Things like that can be a massive undertaking.

For that reason I'm seriously considering just buying up a ton of IPv4 address before they run out. 

[LAwLz]

14 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

For that reason I'm seriously considering just buying up a ton of IPv4 address before they run out. 

Good idea, but you're quite a few years too late.

[goodtofufriday]

Just now, LAwLz said:

Good idea, but you're quite a few years too late.

Well when I say "a ton" I mean like buying 20 more from verizon. It should last me about 2 years if the rate I need them at continues. 

 

Trust me if I had the cash I'd be buying up IP blocks like no ones business.

[mattl115]

It was only a matter of time. IPv6 has been around long enough to prepare for running out of v4 addresses interesting that they waited this long to cut over. Other ISP's cut public IP's  over years ago. 

[leadeater]

20 hours ago, jasonvp said:

What the fuck are you doing memorizing IP addresses for?  It's unnecessary, clumsy, and quite frankly: stupid.  If you're trying to remember IP addresses, you're doing it wrong.

Done any in-depth network and firewall troubleshooting in a complex OSPF and BGP network? DNS is irrelevant in that situation, like it is for any core networking principals. DNS is an application stack level function and is of course immensely useful but doesn't solve the issues with IPv6 we are complaining about.