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SlayerL0rd

Gaming CPU for Competitive CSGO

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Since Ryzen is out, I'm planning to get an upgrade in the CPU department in the near future. A time frame of 3-6 months is probably where I am looking at. Reading through most of the benchmarks and reviews it would seem that for my special case (pushing out high frame rates for CSGO), an Intel processor (i7-7700k) would be the better choice if I'm looking at that kind of price range as compared to a 1800x.

 

Several benchmarks seem to show a significant drop in performance for CSGO when comparing Ryzen to Intel. Linus's own review has shown that the 1800x has about a 30% drop in performance vs the i7-7700k

 

Thoughts? It does seem like the i7-7700k is the way to go if I'm aiming for pure fps.

However I was wondering:

  • Will optimization updates for Ryzen negate the 30% performance gap?
  • If I look at a lower price point, say the 1700x range, is there still a performance gap? What about price vs performance?
  • CSGO is my main concern by a large margin however is there any glaring benefit I should be aware when getting either CPUs?
  • In my upgrade time frame, are there any future upcoming announcements that might open up more choices or things I should consider before going ahead with a decision?

Side info that might help give some context and what not:

Running at GTX 970 and i5-3470 currently, along with a 144hz monitor. Probably am aiming to get a 240hz monitor in the future (I know difference is pretty negligible, but i'd rather buy that than another 144hz). Pushing 120-150 fps at 1080p on CSGO at the moment, all low settings. I do play CSGO competitively so as per anyone who does the same, pure frames all the way.

 

Hope to hear some thoughts!


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CSGO takes advantage of the first 3 cores in your system. 

When you consider that the Ryzen has 8 slower cores vs the i7 with 4 faster ones, the i7 is better hands down. 

The faster single-core performance leads to very good performance in CS, especially when combined with a good board and pushed to 4.7-5Ghz with an OC. 

 

Ryzen is meant to compete with the HEDT architecture, not the mainstream one. The mainstream still wins for single-core performance. 


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The Ryzen 7s that have been released so far, are very competitive compared to Intel's Broadwell-E line of processors, not so much the Kaby Lake i7s.

 

If gaming is your sole purpose for the machine, the Kaby Lake i7 is the way to go. If it's just for CS:GO, it may be interesting to see what the performance difference for that particular game may be to a Kaby Lake i5.

 

That said, things may become interesting in a few months, when Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 3 come out. If, like Intel, AMD has higher clock speeds on their fewer-core processors, then the Ryzen 5 hexa- and quad-core processors may actually be a better match for Kaby Lake than the currently available Ryzen 7s. At least where gaming is concerned...


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If all you play is competitive shooters like CS, Overwatch, the 7700k is the best cpu to get.

 

"Optimization" for ryzen is going to net a few % at best, it's not miraculously going to give it an extra 20% single thread bump lol


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10 hours ago, Lays said:

If all you play is competitive shooters like CS, Overwatch, the 7700k is the best cpu to get.

 

"Optimization" for ryzen is going to net a few % at best, it's not miraculously going to give it an extra 20% single thread bump lol

Though an 1800X @5,38GHz beat the 5960X record in Cinebench. How is that if it's so bad? At 700-900MHz lower clock speeds.


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41 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

CSGO takes advantage of the first 3 cores in your system. 

When you consider that the Ryzen has 8 slower cores vs the i7 with 4 faster ones, the i7 is better hands down. 

The faster single-core performance leads to very good performance in CS, especially when combined with a good board and pushed to 4.7-5Ghz with an OC. 

 

Ryzen is meant to compete with the HEDT architecture, not the mainstream one. The mainstream still wins for single-core performance. 

when yo consider CS:GO players play at lowest settings and at like 640p it doesn't matter


 

 

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i think is best for you to decide in a few months, they main thing to watch for is ryzen on win 7, or win 10 update to fix scheduler problems, other than that there wont be much improvements in performance, unless cs goes to another engine version

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Did I get it all wrong or what ? Noone is talking about possible R3-R5 4 core 4 thread and 4 core 8 thread cpu's that could possibly have higher clock speed and compete with like i5 7600k and stuff like that, imo the r7 series is aimed more towards not only gaming but streaming, encoding, rendering and stuff like that because it has 8 cores 16 threads which is not used to the full potential just by gaming.
I would go for 7600k if I was looking to buy right now, but in 3-6 months period ryzen situation could completely change and maybe even make a processor that you're looking for like 7600k for a lower price.


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7700K will do better job for CSGO.


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4 minutes ago, Lolcrokn said:

Did I get it all wrong or what ? Noone is talking about possible R3-R5 4 core 4 thread and 4 core 8 thread cpu's that could possibly have higher clock speed and compete with like i5 7600k and stuff like that, imo the r7 series is aimed more towards not only gaming but streaming, encoding, rendering and stuff like that because it has 8 cores 16 threads which is not used to the full potential just by gaming.
I would go for 7600k if I was looking to buy right now, but in 3-6 months period ryzen situation could completely change and maybe even make a processor that you're looking for like 7600k for a lower price.

We'll talk about R3-5 once they're actually here. But at any rate, it doesn't matter: if the guy has the money for a 7700 setup, then I bet he's not going to skimp on a humble R5.


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49 minutes ago, Lays said:

If all you play is competitive shooters like CS, Overwatch, the 7700k is the best cpu to get.

 

"Optimization" for ryzen is going to net a few % at best, it's not miraculously going to give it an extra 20% single thread bump lol

 

You really don't need i7 CPUs for gaming unless somehow it's being fully utilized - I would go with the 6600k which will work for just about anything.

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35 minutes ago, DarkBlade2117 said:

when yo consider CS:GO players play at lowest settings and at like 640p it doesn't matter

it does because that's a heavily CPU based scenario

 

more single-core perf = more fps


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1 hour ago, Droidbot said:

it does because that's a heavily CPU based scenario

 

more single-core perf = more fps

Theyll be getting 300 FPS on a fucking potato


 

 

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2 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Though an 1800X @5,38GHz beat the 6950X record in Cinebench. How is that if it's so bad? It has four threads less than the 6950X.

the 6950x is a 10 core beast, which also loses to the 7700k for single thread performance. You're looking at the wrong workflow (single thread vs multi-threaded). Also, I'm assuming you're referring to the world record, in which case i'd have to point out that unless you are using liquid nitrogen as they did, you're never going to get an 1800x to 5 ghz, as most are struggling to get 4.2 ghz at the moment.


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Just now, reniat said:

the 6950x is a 10 core beast, which also loses to the 7700k for single thread performance. You're looking at the wrong workflow (single thread vs multi-threaded). Also, I'm assuming you're referring to the world record, in which case i'd have to point out that unless you are using liquid nitrogen as they did, you're never going to get an 1800x to 5 ghz, as most are struggling to get 4.2 ghz at the moment.

I know every bit of what you said, my point was different. I meant that its IPC can't be that low if it wins with a 10 core 6950X in multithreaded tasks.


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13 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

I know every bit of what you said, my point was different. I meant that its IPC can't be that low if it wins with a 10 core 6950X in multithreaded tasks.

 

Single threaded performance is really that bad when compared to a 6700k/7700k.  The 6950x comparison is only further clouding the topic.


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3 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

Single threaded performance is really that bad when compared to a 6700k/7700k.  The 6950x comparison is only further clouding the topic.

Well, if according to you Broadwell has that bad singlethreaded performance compared to Skylake/Kaby Lake...

 

What clouds other people's judgement is saying that it's "that bad" as they don't see performance of Intel's previous-gen in their heads (which in terms of IPC, Broadwell still is), they see an FX-8300 cause that was really bad in terms of IPC.


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20 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Well, if according to you Broadwell has that bad singlethreaded performance compared to Skylake/Kaby Lake...

 

Yes, Broadwell is that bad compared to Kaby Lake in the sense that IPC + clock speed gives a substantial single-threaded advantage to Skylake/Kaby Lake, but that is not the discussion at hand here. 

 

Hang out in the Cinebench thread and check out the Ryzen submissions that actually have single core runs included and you'll start to see what I'm talking about.  I'm not paper racing.  I'm talking about end user reporting.

 

IPC advantage of 7% and clock speed advantage of 12% as outlined by AMD themselves gives a DISTINCT advantage in single-threaded performance to Kaby Lake over Ryzen when compared at stock speeds.  Overclocking only makes things worse and increases more in Kaby Lake's favor.  Overclocked, the single-threaded advantage can be upwards of 40% +.  

 

Overclocked 7700k single-thread results:

 

7700k @ 5.3_4.9_3200 XMP Single Core = 234, Multi Core = 1186.jpg

 

 

Overclocked 1800x single-thread results:

 

58be7a676f0ab_1800xOC4_1ghz.png.42ed3346cc76728b6dd26f00583d569d.png

 

 

Here is AMD talking about IPC / clock speed differences with Steve from Gamers Nexus.

 

 

 

The original point of this thread was which is better for CSGO and the answer is undoubtedly the 7700k.  As I said earlier, talking about anything else just makes things more confusing so why bother?


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4 hours ago, Morgan MLGman said:

I meant that its IPC can't be that low if it wins with a 10 core 6950X in multithreaded tasks.

It did not beat a 6950X in Cinebench... The highest overclocked 6950X gets 2780+ cb....


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3 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

It did not beat a 6950X in Cinebench... The highest overclocked 6950X gets 2780+ cb....

I obviously meant the 5960X :P Brain-lag

6 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

Yes, Broadwell is that bad compared to Kaby Lake in the sense that IPC + clock speed gives a substantial single-threaded advantage to Skylake/Kaby Lake, but that is not the discussion at hand here. 

 

Hang out in the Cinebench thread and check out the Ryzen submissions that actually have single core runs included and you'll start to see what I'm talking about.  I'm not paper racing.  I'm talking about end user reporting.

 

IPC advantage of 7% and clock speed advantage of 12% as outlined by AMD themselves gives a DISTINCT advantage in single-threaded performance to Kaby Lake over Ryzen when compared at stock speeds.  Overclocking only makes things worse and increases more in Kaby Lake's favor.  Overclocked, the single-threaded advantage can be upwards of 40% +.  

 

Overclocked 7700k single-thread results:

 

7700k @ 5.3_4.9_3200 XMP Single Core = 234, Multi Core = 1186.jpg

 

 

Overclocked 1800x single-thread results:

 

58be7a676f0ab_1800xOC4_1ghz.png.42ed3346cc76728b6dd26f00583d569d.png

 

 

Here is AMD talking about IPC / clock speed differences with Steve from Gamers Nexus.

 

 

 

The original point of this thread was which is better for CSGO and the answer is undoubtedly the 7700k.  As I said earlier, talking about anything else just makes things more confusing so why bother?

Yes, though the topic also has been answered right away so what's the point of any post below the first response? (at least following your logic...)

This is a forum for discussing things, if OP wanted an answer such as "yes" or "no" only, he'd just google the question instead of creating a thread.

 

I also never disagreed that the 7700K is a better choice for CS:GO, I'm running an i7-6700K @4,7GHz myself for a reason.

What I also know is what scores do Skylake & Kabylake get in Cinebench in both single and multithreaded tasks, though you seem to be missing some vital points about Ryzen CPUs, let me explain:

- 1800X was never meant to compete with the 7700K, it was meant to compete with the 6900K and it does that amazingly well considering the price difference and the fact that for the price of a 6900K + X99 you can get an 1800X + X370 + GTX 1080...

 

- 1800X despite 4GHz "boost" clock can only maintain 3,7GHz at all cores and 4,1GHz with a single core (4,0GHz if temperatures are not good-enough). So assume 3,7GHz at stock in all of the benchmarks. This is fairly low and is one of the reasons why benchmarks are all over the place, what's more important, don't confuse it for low IPC, it's just relatively low clock speeds.

 

- There's a lot of stuff to be fixed within the first month or two, here's some more in-depth info (really interesting stuff here): https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/page-8

 

- Even Haswell's IPC is more than enough for gaming, Ryzen is almost exactly at Broadwell level of IPC. Those CPU benchmarks are done in ridiculously low resolutions such as 640p, 720p and the bottleneck is entirely on the CPU. Of course even 100MHz will make a significant difference. But what about real-world? It's not nearly as big of a difference and it might only be noticeable at 1080p with a GPU that's too fast for that resolution anyway (aka 1070/980Ti and above). Well, at 4K the 1800X actually goes head-to-head with Intel's offerings (including the 7700K) while providing better frametimes and higher minimum FPS.

 

- Now to the last part, I believe that poor gaming performance in some cases is still yet to be fixed, for instance in Windows 7 people are getting better framerates because Win7 doesn't have such sophisticated power management system and the HPET isn't as advanced. There's also a case of games running better if SMT is disabled on R7 CPUs and more, this is all more or less related to Windows and software optimizations that need to come as soon as possible, that doesn't make the architecture bad by any means, it's just brand-new unlike what Intel is doing atm.

 

- And yes, the 1800X will never beat the 7700K in AVG. FPS in games that don't benefit from its additional threads, that's just impossible. However, the 1800X is an eight-core chip, thus clocked fairly low. On the bright side, 6-cores and 4-cores with SMT are coming for the price of an i5 and an i3 respectively, considering IPC of Broadwell and higher clocks due to lower core count (same as Intel is doing) we can only expect the dawn of i5s. What's more, all of the stuff I mentioned above will most likely be fixed by the time R3 and R5 launch, we can only expect great stuff coming. Considering that OP specifically said that his purchase timeframe is around 3-6 months, it's actually more confusing for OP to tell him to go 7700K right away if those fixes and the rest of the Ryzen lineup are coming just around that time.


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15 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

I obviously meant the 5960X :P Brain-lag

 

Obviously?  Do you know how many claims of the 1800x beating the 6950x there have been on LTT alone? 

 

15 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Yes, though the topic also has been answered right away so what's the point of any post below the first response? (at least following your logic...)

This is a forum for discussing things, if OP wanted an answer such as "yes" or "no" only, he'd just google the question instead of creating a thread.

 

I agree with this, but my first post was in response to the topic.  Single-threaded performance is abundantly relevant with regards to high FPS CSGO.

 

A Ryzen chip beating a 6950x, not so much.  But hey, it's a free forum to make whatever statements we want, right?

 

15 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

I also never disagreed that the 7700K is a better choice for CS:GO, I'm running an i7-6700K @4,7GHz myself for a reason.

 

I don't remember saying that you disagreed?  I just addressed your statement about the Ryzen chip beating a 6950x and which you implied meant that Ryzen's IPC can't be that low.  It was really that simple.

 

15 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

What I also know is what scores do Skylake & Kabylake get in Cinebench in both single and multithreaded tasks, though you seem to be missing some vital points about Ryzen CPUs, let me explain:

- 1800X was never meant to compete with the 7700K, it was meant to compete with the 6900K and it does that amazingly well considering the price difference and the fact that for the price of a 6900K + X99 you can get an 1800X + X370 + GTX 1080...

 

- 1800X despite 4GHz "boost" clock can only maintain 3,7GHz at all cores and 4,1GHz with a single core (4,0GHz if temperatures are not good-enough). So assume 3,7GHz at stock in all of the benchmarks. This is fairly low and is one of the reasons why benchmarks are all over the place, what's more important, don't confuse it for low IPC, it's just relatively low clock speeds.

 

- There's a lot of stuff to be fixed within the first month or two, here's some more in-depth info (really interesting stuff here): https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/page-8

 

- Even Haswell's IPC is more than enough for gaming, Ryzen is almost exactly at Broadwell level of IPC. Those CPU benchmarks are done in ridiculously low resolutions such as 640p, 720p and the bottleneck is entirely on the CPU. Of course even 100MHz will make a significant difference. But what about real-world? It's not nearly as big of a difference and it might only be noticeable at 1080p with a GPU that's too fast for that resolution anyway (aka 1070/980Ti and above). Well, at 4K the 1800X actually goes head-to-head with Intel's offerings (including the 7700K) while providing better frametimes and higher minimum FPS.

 

- Now to the last part, I believe that poor gaming performance in some cases is still yet to be fixed, for instance in Windows 7 people are getting better framerates because Win7 doesn't have such sophisticated power management system and the HPET isn't as advanced. There's also a case of games running better if SMT is disabled on R7 CPUs and more, this is all more or less related to Windows and software optimizations that need to come as soon as possible, that doesn't make the architecture bad by any means, it's just brand-new unlike what Intel is doing atm.

 

You just wrote all that to say stuff that is already common knowledge?  Thanks, but you should have asked what I know and I could have saved you a lot of time.

 

15 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

- And yes, the 1800X will never beat the 7700K in AVG. FPS in games that don't benefit from its additional threads, that's just impossible.

 

Which is exactly the point of this thread.  High FPS CSGO.

 

15 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

However, the 1800X is an eight-core chip, thus clocked fairly low. On the bright side, 6-cores and 4-cores with SMT are coming for the price of an i5 and an i3 respectively, considering IPC of Broadwell and higher clocks due to lower core count (same as Intel is doing) we can only expect the dawn of i5s. What's more, all of the stuff I mentioned above will most likely be fixed by the time R3 and R5 launch, we can only expect great stuff coming. Considering that OP specifically said that his purchase timeframe is around 3-6 months, it's actually more confusing for OP to tell him to go 7700K right away if those fixes and the rest of the Ryzen lineup are coming just around that time.

 

A great deal of speculation here. I'll continue to focus on facts.  The fact remains that AMD has already stated that Ryzen cannot match the IPC or clock speed of the 7700k resulting in a 19% gap in single-threaded performance.  

 

AMD already suffered badly as a result of the type of speculation you're doing and I think it's unfair for folks to continue doing it.  Now everyone is speculating that lower core count Ryzen chips will benefit from higher clock speeds, improved optimization, and who knows what else?  At the end of the day, it's just continued speculation.

 

I think Ryzen is a great chip for what it was targeted for.  I'm just not trying to make it something it ain't.  


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12 hours ago, Droidbot said:

HEDT

what is HEDT Architecture?


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Just now, Apollo Refugio said:

what is HEDT Architecture?

 

High End Desktop

 

Intel Extreme line and the like.


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Storage: 2 x Samsung 960 Evo NVMe (RAID 0)  |  4 x Samsung 850 EVO (RAID 0)  |  PSUEVGA SuperNOVA 1600 T2

Cooling: Custom Loop  5 x EK 360mm rads  |  2 x EK D5 PWM pumps  |  EK GPU blocks | Aqua Computer Cuplex Kryos NEXT CPU block

Case: Caselabs Mercury S8 w/ Pedestal

 

CPU: Threadripper 1950x  |  Motherboard: Asus ROG Zenith Extreme  |  GPU: 3 x EVGA GTX 1080 Ti  +  2 x EVGA GTX 1080  |  RAM: 32GB G.Skill TridentZ DDR4 3200Mhz (CL14)

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5 minutes ago, Apollo Refugio said:

what is HEDT Architecture?

X99, X79, X58, etc. 

It stands for 'High End Desk Top'. This is Intel's acronym, not mine. I'd just name it 'Enthusiast Desktop'


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