Tim Sweeney says Microsoft is lying about some supposed Win 10 advantages, calls UWP "woefully inadequate"

[yian88]

10 hours ago, zMeul said:

I keep hoping that Linux gaming and Vulkan as an real alternative will happen .. but it's still fumbling around in the dark

It cannot ever happen, linux is a broken kernel, drivers dont work or dont exist, stuff breaks all over the place,  the software and distrubutions developed by randoms cannot make a gaming/workstation viable OS.

Every fucking joe, sally and his buddies have their own crappy distro, the linux strongest point its also its weakest point and that is its licensing model, the fact that anyone can do whatever they want with the kernel created so many great things and yet because of it there are too many distros trying to fix the same problem and none of them are succeeding.

You will know GNU/Linux will succeed when there will be only one linux distro for desktop/workstation and one for servers, so that everyone can work on the same OS, one DE one DM one way of doing things fixed,stable,secure,compatible.

Its Linus Torvalds fault for not doing more, himself said he wanted to see more done on the desktop part of linux world but it will not happen, it needs the creator and a big company/organization behind it, to make only one good distro, to talk with manufacturers to get proper drivers, and to put that distro on new laptops,pcs, workstations, to talk with software devs,game devs to get proper support on the platform, you cant get all of that from the divided stupid linux community, all they can think of is how to rice their desktops a bit more with new "amazing wallpapers" and new interface layout, repackage it an call it a new "Linux OS", fucking retards.

 

And windows is going down the drainhole since win8. There is no future to desktop computing, if you want to have a down to earth conversation without hopes and dreams, the desktop environment is done for. Win10 is going to get worse and worse, even if MS werent retarded, everything they develop for UWP and windows is useless and not required, it serves no purpose. 

Creators update? is that a joke? paint3d? who the fuck cares, when is the last time artists asked for a paint 3d? no one wants garbage software there are already pro apps for everything, but MS cant pull its head out of its own arse.

 

The saddest part is that we cant do anything to fight back as users or developers, even TimS cant do shit about it other than complain, its as bad as it can get.

[Sauron]

11 hours ago, Kherm said:

UWP is very bare in terms of game support. 

It's also completely unnecessary and restrictive for no reason.

[Delicieuxz]

9 hours ago, rhavimarques said:

i really don't think this is a fair comparison. How many millions more windows 10 machines are there then all the other ones? I really don't understand all this absurd hate on windows 10. Its definantly not perfect, but in my experience it runs much smoother then 7 does, even if it does lose on benchmarks and a few fps in games, i've had far less crashes and whole system freezes in 10 then ever before.

 

Windows 10 is the least secure windows OS because its the most used, i'm sure if you swapped the w10 userbase to linux you'd find crazy security holes too.

to me this just sounds like that old apple claim from the early 2000s "there's no viruses on apple" - well yeah, nobody bothered to make them.

There are a lot more desktop PCs using Windows 7 than there are using Windows 10.

 

https://www.netmarketshare.com/

Windows 7: 48.41% of desktop market share, and growing

Windows 10: 25.19% of desktop market share, and declining

[Okjoek]

12 hours ago, zMeul said:

I keep hoping that Linux gaming and Vulkan as an real alternative will happen .. but it's still fumbling around in the dark

I was watching a video of the guy that made Linux and he said something about the fact that prebuilt desktop devices aren't being shipped with the OS enough for it to gain market influence.

 

I've spent a few days in Ubuntu starting this year and the layout is fairly easy to get accustomed to, but even just installing graphics drivers took me several hours to figure out how to do with help from people on this forum. Convenience is definitely a shortcoming just from my initial attempts.

[zMeul]

20 minutes ago, Okjoek said:

I was watching a video of the guy that made Linux and he said something about the fact that prebuilt desktop devices aren't being shipped with the OS enough for it to gain market influence.

that's not how you get market share

people buy cheap desktops/laptops with Linux installed it and clean it then put Windows on it

 

there are a lot of people that are genuinely interested in Linux and want it to become a true viable alternative - then and only way it will gain market share

 

the graphics drivers have become simpler to install and manage

Ubuntu has an alternative ppa that's fairly updated and they can be managed via Additional Drivers UI

[Okjoek]

3 minutes ago, zMeul said:

that's not how you get market share

people buy cheap desktops/laptops with Linux installed it and clean it then put Windows on it

 

there are a lot of people that are genuinely interested in Linux and want it to become a true viable alternative - then and only the it will gain market share

 

the graphics drivers have become simpler to install and manage

Ubuntu has an alternative ppa that's fairly updated and they can be managed via Additional Drivers UI

 

Huh I never saw an option for my drivers in the additional drivers window.

This is the cycle of events that I went through to get it done and HUGE thanks to DeadEyePsycho for making it possible.

[bobhays]

17 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

I use ubuntu on my htpc, I got nothing against Linux. It's just some of the claims he's making are just baseless.

What software do you use? I was thinking about running an HTPC but i've basically decided to run android TV instead. It has almost everything I need and an easy to use TV interface, cheaper too.

13 hours ago, zMeul said:

that's not how you get market share

people buy cheap desktops/laptops with Linux installed it and clean it then put Windows on it

 

there are a lot of people that are genuinely interested in Linux and want it to become a true viable alternative - then and only way it will gain market share

 

the graphics drivers have become simpler to install and manage

Ubuntu has an alternative ppa that's fairly updated and they can be managed via Additional Drivers UI

I disagree. I think if more computers sold with linux installed and I don't mean the niche products like certain NUC versions. I mean desktop and laptops that are actually marketed by the manufacturers, we'd see much greater linux adoption. The biggest hurdle is getting people to change their OS, the typical user doesn't update the windows OS that comes with their computer, they'll just get a newer computer with a newer OS (especially since windows releases last for years).

[zMeul]

5 hours ago, bobhays said:

I disagree. I think if more computers sold with linux installed and I don't mean the niche products like certain NUC versions. I mean desktop and laptops that are actually marketed by the manufacturers, we'd see much greater linux adoption. The biggest hurdle is getting people to change their OS, the typical user doesn't update the windows OS that comes with their computer, they'll just get a newer computer with a newer OS (especially since windows releases last for years).

mate, they dump the linux installation that's already there and they install windows

they don't buy the linux systems because linux, they buy it because it's cheaper

[jagdtigger]

On 2017. 03. 06. at 2:44 AM, gabrielcarvfer said:

And that is true, but it was a huge pain to fix stuff that relied on other updates, and people didn't wanted to update. From MS perspective: forcing everyone into updates is much easier to do their job without creating dependency problems between updates.

Don't like ad-stuff baked in and really wanted a single button to enable/disable all MS advertisement and data collection, but for now you have to disable stuff through registry, services and group policy.

 

In terms of Vista, if you check the list of Windows 10 flaws that got discovered, many of them affect previous versions of Windows, starting from Vista and 7. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Stop spreading false info, even MS admitted that telemtry cant be stopped... (when the whole fiasco broke out i looked into it myself, logged the traffic with wireshark and it was indeed sending back data despite all the tweaks i did)

[RagnarokDel]

7 hours ago, bobhays said:

What software do you use? I was thinking about running an HTPC but i've basically decided to run android TV instead. It has almost everything I need and an easy to use TV interface, cheaper too.

It was free for me, I just used a old pc. as for software I just use vlc and often browser for some stuff that's not compatible.

[steezemageeze]

4 hours ago, zMeul said:

mate, they dump the linux installation that's already there and they install windows

they don't buy the linux systems because linux, they buy it because it's cheaper

That wouldn't make any sense at all, even if the device was cheaper with Linux, they'd still have to buy a Windows licence after the fact and it would be just as/more expensive?

 

Unless you're saying they would just blindly buy it because it's cheaper and have to buy a Windows license because they don't understand Linux and end up paying more (which definitely has happened), then forget everything I said. I'd love to see more Linux pre-builts, but sadly I think this is what would happen all too often.

[Delicieuxz]

59 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Some telemetry can be stopped, at least stuff running in user-mode. Kernel-mode is another story. Never said otherwise.

 

If you want to block them completely, edit your hosts file to block their IPs and that is it.

I think that Windows 10 ignores any blocking of Microsoft IPs that's done in the hosts file, so they have to be added to a router's firewall.

[zMeul]

2 hours ago, steezemageeze said:

That wouldn't make any sense at all, even if the device was cheaper with Linux, they'd still have to buy a Windows licence after the fact and it would be just as/more expensive?

"have to"!?!?

they won't buy a windows licence .. do I need to spell it out?

[RagnarokDel]

On 06/03/2017 at 8:22 AM, zMeul said:

 

Yeah but you see, for most end-users, this is too complicated.

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

Some telemetry can be stopped, at least stuff running in user-mode. Kernel-mode is another story. Never said otherwise.

 

If you want to block them completely, edit your hosts file to block their IPs and that is it. 

 

If something running in kernel mode then there is no guarantee that it wont ignore the hosts file...

Edited March 7, 2017 by jagdtigger

[steezemageeze]

5 hours ago, zMeul said:

"have to"!?!?

they won't buy a windows licence .. do I need to spell it out?

The majority of people wouldn't know how to do that though. Sure, you do, and so do most of us on this forum, but for the most part anyone who buys a machine with Linux because it's cheaper is going to be in for a shock when they boot it up and are greeted by the Ubuntu logo. Most consumers are extremely poorly informed. Remember this video?

Ubuntu Causes Girl To Drop Out Of College . I'm all for Linux coming on pre-builts, but I'm afraid that this is what will happen, and that it'll hurt us (the Linux community) more than help us

[Dabombinable]

On 06/03/2017 at 11:22 PM, zMeul said:

that's not how you get market share

people buy cheap desktops/laptops with Linux installed it and clean it then put Windows on it

 

there are a lot of people that are genuinely interested in Linux and want it to become a true viable alternative - then and only way it will gain market share

 

the graphics drivers have become simpler to install and manage

Ubuntu has an alternative ppa that's fairly updated and they can be managed via Additional Drivers UI

I had to uninstall Ubuntu from my laptop because AMD went full retard and stopped updating their proprietary driver-meaning that it didn't run under the newer kernels. Meaning that its now useless (the last BIOS update increased the RAM shared with the APU to 1GB, so its only got 3GB usable RAM now)

[vorticalbox]

On ‎06‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 0:03 AM, Delicieuxz said:

There are a lot of things about Windows 10 which Microsoft has claimed represents enhanced security, but which is actually only there to coerce Windows owners into using Microsoft services, to generate Microsoft money - with perpetually generating Microsoft money daily being what I think was the entire purpose behind Microsoft's repackaging of Windows 7 / 8 as Windows 10, with tons of monetization gimmicks built in.

i didn't release it was frowned upon for a company o make money off their own products.

 

[bobhays]

14 hours ago, zMeul said:

mate, they dump the linux installation that's already there and they install windows

they don't buy the linux systems because linux, they buy it because it's cheaper

I get that a lot of people do, but I think that's because the systems that come with linux are pretty rare. The only people who go out to buy them are the ones who know they can just replace them. If linux systems were on shelves at places like best buy then people might start being slightly interested. I know this is just hopeful babbling but I don't see any other way linux adoption will greatly increase, (other than major changes to ease of use).

12 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

It was free for me, I just used a old pc. as for software I just use vlc and often browser for some stuff that's not compatible.

Ahh, I'm trying to avoid using a pc with keyboard and mouse. If I can I'd prefer to do everything with a remote and voice search so that anyone in my house can use it.

[jagdtigger]

13 hours ago, bobhays said:

If linux systems were on shelves at places like best buy then people might start being slightly interested.

Dont think so... R=1 consumers are lasy AF so they freak out when they didnt greeted by any version of windows. I was curious what my father would do if i put linux on the machine that he uses for web browsing. Popped a Live Linux Mint on a pendrive and booted it and opened firefox. Guess what he did?

Spoiler

Forced shutdown with the power button then switched it back on...

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by jagdtigger

[thexzenon]

15 hours ago, steezemageeze said:

The majority of people wouldn't know how to do that though.

"Hey there, Jack? Just got a new laptop, can you set it up for me please?"

"Sure, what Windows version do you want?"
"No idea"

"Ok, I'll bring the Windows 7 USB"

 

And that's how you do it. 

 

This just came to mind, even easier than the first one:

 

"Hello Jack, I want a new laptop for around 800 bucks"

"Sure, do you want to play DVDs on it?"

"Yeah, I want to listen to my Julio Iglesias albums"

"Sure thing. I'll go get one and set it up for you"

[steezemageeze]

2 hours ago, crisro996 said:

"Hey there, Jack? Just got a new laptop, can you set it up for me please?"

"Sure, what Windows version do you want?"
"No idea"

"Ok, I'll bring the Windows 7 USB"

 

And that's how you do it. 

 

This just came to mind, even easier than the first one:

 

"Hello Jack, I want a new laptop for around 800 bucks"

"Sure, do you want to play DVDs on it?"

"Yeah, I want to listen to my Julio Iglesias albums"

"Sure thing. I'll go get one and set it up for you"

Sure, but that's a little out of context. zMeul was talking about pirating Windows. Even in that situation they'd be dealing with either buying a key, hoping Jack has a couple spare keys, or leaving it inactivated (which yes, is still usable, but it isn't a perfect situation). I think the conversation would be more like,

 

"Hey Jack, I just bought this cheap computer and I can't get Norton to install! And Windows looks real strange, they changed everything!"

"...please tell me the wallpaper isn't orange?"

"Yeah it is, why? Do I have a virus?"

"No, Tim, you bought a laptop with Ubuntu on it. I'll be right over with the Windows 7 disc"

 

You're right on the second one, that'd definitely be better, although I can't imagine that happens very often.

 

 

 

I'm not really sure what the point I'm trying to make here is, other than that I think Linux prebuilts could be a good idea in some cases, it's really not for the general public. Too many people can't even figure out how to set up their printer, let alone install a .deb package.

[jagdtigger]

59 minutes ago, steezemageeze said:

Too many people can't even figure out how to set up their printer, let alone install a .deb package.

You dont even have to deal with deb packages nowadays. There is a convinient gui application for software installation and updating.

[SpaceNugget]

On 05/03/2017 at 6:37 PM, RagnarokDel said:

Tim Sweeney is so bias'd against Microsoft, he should be a "Microsoft expert" for Fox News.

This is perhaps the dumbest shit I've ever read as an argument for Linux.That's what? about 0.0001% of gaming scenarios?

Between CSGO, Rocket league, Dota2, Runescape, TF2 you are already at a pretty good coverage of what a significant portion of gamers play. These days the only games I really play are Rocket league and Dota, and there are lots of people like me that only play a couple of games. 

[CTR640]

Modding keeps gaming and games alive, look at GTA for example. I still make mods for GTA SA and I started 10 years ago with modding, 2007.

Wtf is Microshit thinking and doing?? They are simply a bunch of dumb fucktards forcing gamers to buy games from UWP.

They are truely a bunch of lying cocksuckers crying about how modding destroys HDD/SDD, breaking PC etc etc mimimimimimimi

Well fuck that, I'll never ever buy a game from UWP, end of story.

 

Gamedevs should hop off Microsoft's dick and start making games for Linux and Vulkan.